AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #16

[Waterdog]

Further to my last post... this link shows the record in question and outlines what he stole from the home. I've put a screenshot as well to show you that I believe he may have had other items from the home in his possession when he was picked up by police:
Cameron man charged with stealing from Closs home in Barron Co.

I get that it was a matter of open records and this info could have been obtained anytime by media and released to the public, but the Sheriff put the info out himself to the public yesterday in his statement to the press - almost as an afterthought... "also.......". I'm wondering why they decided to put this out there when they did? The suspect thief was apprehended over the weekend, but went by undetected by media and residents until the police put that out there. So why did they? They weren't obligated to do so. It wasn't on anyone's radar that I know of. I heard no rumours of it across any of the social media, or forums regarding this case.... so? Why release it specifically when they clearly didn't have to? Is that a message to someone, as in "hey, we got your friend? he's not coming to see you with the items..."?

The man is a cross dresser

I agree that in the heat of the crime, a hostage MIGHT keep the murderer or murderers safe from a shoot out.
But, at some point, they had to stop driving and running. To sleep, to eat, to plan their next move.

If Jayme was taken as a hostage, at that point, when they stopped somewhere like a Motel 6, then she became a huge liability to them. 2 men " on the road" staying at holes in the wall aren't really that noticeable.

Add in a girl with long strawberry blonde hair and they have a spotlight shining on them.

Unless they might have access to overroad quarters with sleeping and meal prep., like an RV or even a long haul truck like Jennie- O probably has in operation, they are risking capture every time they stop for necessities.

JMO, but if she's not out in the wooded areas deceased but not yet found, she's most likely deceased and has been for the length of this case discussion, part #1. Not because I want it this way but because the statistics of a hostage in a home invasion for murder having their life valued is almost 0.00%.

Because of her young age and small size, and crime statistics, I'm almost resigned to the fact that this is a recovery-only situation now.
My faith in a higher power is all that keeps me from abandoning hope because no forces on earth are on her side.

 

[Gardener1850]

Honestly it's too hard to think about let along write down on a forum.

The only things keeping some of us going are Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Dugard.

Gives just a bit of hope to a hopeless situation.

That's part of why I don't get the theories about someone not planning to take her but taking her anyway because they didn't want to harm her. It sounds hopeful... until you realize they had to make a choice about what to do with her after that... If a criminal with no qualms about killing two adults really doesn't want to harm a child and had not planned to take her, they would have found a random place to release her alive by now. Just dump her off on a street corner in a random town; threaten her not to say anything and get out of there... But a criminal with no qualms about killing adults and no previous plan to take a child is more likely to decide to kill her-- either right away at the scene or soon after he takes her.
JMO.

The best hope IMO is that this is someone who planned to take Jayme and had a place ready for her. It's horrifying to think about and in no way do I think this is a benevolent person who is not harming her while holding her. But that's the only reason I can see her being taken and the best chance at recovering her alive at this point. That hope is dwindling however. The statistics are against her even if he had a plan to hold her for a time.
JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Has there been a case where the parents were murdered and an abducted child was found alive even at a much later time?

There is always hope Jayme is alive, but the murder of her parents puts her in imminent danger. If she “willingly” went with someone it was a survival instinct.

She’s a victim no matter what, but I feel she didn’t have anything to do with it.

There is a case where a brother and sister were taken, the rest of the family murdered, and the young girl was found in his company at a restaurant weeks later, but the brother was killed.The perp was living with them in the woods. Can't remember names or when it was, though.

 

[Lillymac]

Now that posting has slowed down, I would be very interested in internal polling here. I am not the best poster to setup that sort of thing, but I would like to see condensed opinions as percentages. For example:

YES: You think abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

Or

NO: You do NOT think the abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

I know most of you have considered all the great ideas and multiple scenarios, but what is your strongest gut feeling or thought process on just that Yes or No.

Thank you.

No...I don't believe abduction was the primary purpose!

 

[AC's Grandma]

The sheriff cleared KJA as the person who took Jayme. He didn't clear him as the murderer of her parents. Just something to keep in mind.
JMO MOO IMO

 

[Paul S.]

Why do the Police treat the general public as the problem in all of this? Real,concrete information seems limited in the Closs case. Pass the information out. We are not the problem. We just might be the solution.

 

[jesusismyhope]

I am losing my hope It's been 2 weeks and tips have slowed down. Someone has to know something!!

 

[SeekingJana]

Has there been a case where the parents were murdered and an abducted child was found alive even at a much later time?

Shasta Groene. But her brother who was also abducted with her, was murdered while out in the woods with Duncan. Shasta escaped because Duncan took her to a restaurant, she was more or less recognized, and her behavior was " off"- frightened, subdued, looking to her captor before she spoke.

There are likely some very young infants historically, but Jayme wasn't in that age group.

 

[Le Singe]

Even if he wasn't involved in the actual original crime... it wouldn't shock me to learn that he was someone's patsy.

i respectfully disagree, I don't think this is a team sport kind of crime either he is 100% involve or 0% involved, and for now with LE saying he is clear then for now it looks like 0. This is all just my opinion.

 

[Paul S.]

Why cannot abduction be the reason in the Closs case. Surely we all believe that real evil is out there.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

...Until then, please stay on topic, do not start discussing any other cases, and remember while Websleuths is first a true crime discussion forum a very close second is we are a victim friendly forum. 99.9% of the time we can easily be both. In Jayme's case, there is no reason to disparage the parents or Jayme. There is no evidence of any issues with Jayme's parents or with Jayme herself.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. We know teenagers can be very difficult, however, there is no evidence to suggest Jayme is anything but a victim.

If your post starts with "Me", "My", "I" it very well could be off topic.

We have the best sleuths in the world on Websleuths. We need to keep on topic to make sure the topics are easy to read. When a post is made about anything that is not directly related to the topics it makes the thread harder to read and way off topic.

The work the mods are having to do on this thread alone is overwhelming.

The rules are easy to follow on Websleuths. Thousands of people follow the rules every day with no problem.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Tricia

Snipped and bumping again.

 

[photographer4]

I'm sure Jennie O is a big place. Suspect says he didn't know Closs family? I wonder how true that is. I'm sure when it hit the news he at least recognized them

He clearly knew where the house was - well enough to find it seemingly in the dark, with perhaps the light of the moon and his flashlight. He clearly had no trouble finding his way inside, or into Jayme's room.... so did he infact know them? Had he heard someone else talking about the house etc? I'm not buying he was only there for Jayme's clothing - if that was the case, then why does the report note that police observed him in rooms (plural) as several lights were on? If it was get Jayme's things only, then why go into other rooms?

 

[Regit]

That's part of why I don't get the theories about someone not planning to take her but taking her anyway because they didn't want to harm her. It sounds hopeful... until you realize they had to make a choice about what to do with her after that... If a criminal with no qualms about killing two adults really doesn't want to harm a child and had not planned to take her, they would have found a random place to release her alive by now. Just dump her off on a street corner in a random town; threaten her not to say anything and get out of there... But a criminal with no qualms about killing adults and no previous plan to take a child is more likely to decide to kill her-- either right away at the scene or soon after he takes her.
JMO.

The best hope IMO is that this is someone who planned to take Jayme and had a place ready for her. It's horrifying to think about and in no way do I think this is a benevolent person who is not harming her while holding her. But that's the only reason I can see her being taken and the best chance at recovering her alive at this point. That hope is dwindling however. The statistics are against her even if he had a plan to hold her for a time.
JMO.

This is my thought as well. I don’t think that someone evil enough to kill two innocent adults would have any qualms about killing a teenager. It’s not like she is a two year old that padded out in footed pajamas. From the recent pictures, she’s a young lady. And as Gardener said, they would have wanted to get rid of her quickly if that is the case.

 

[Cardinal47]

The case against Nathanial Kibby is interesting to read when wondering about targeting and preparing a place and how these minds work. BTW he used a stun gun to subdue his victim.

 

[Le Singe]

Oh, I read further on and saw that we are not to post about this guy so I am sorry I did. I didn't mention his name and it was meant to be a general comment.

JMO

it was my understanding (someone correct me if i am wrong) that the guy we could not mention at all was someone else. We are allowed to talk about this guy in a limited way, although its true it is likely to be unproductive.

 

[SeekingJana]

Beau Monde ( my little guy in my avatar) told me we have an answer, and it's a really good one, below. So, deleted.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Does anyone know if people where in the houses when KJA did burglaries previously?

Based on the charge in the previous case, no. In the prior case it was 943.10(1m)(a). If the home was occupied at the time there would have been a charge of 943.10(2)(e). It is a higher level felony to enter an occupied home than an unoccupied one.

Wisconsin Legislature: 943.10

 

[Waterdog]

He clearly knew where the house was - well enough to find it seemingly in the dark, with perhaps the light of the moon and his flashlight. He clearly had no trouble finding his way inside, or into Jayme's room.... so did he infact know them? Had he heard someone else talking about the house etc? I'm not buying he was only there for Jayme's clothing - if that was the case, then why does the report note that police observed him in rooms (plural) as several lights were on? If it was get Jayme's things only, then why go into other rooms?

He is a crossdresser, perhaps transgender, with a very long history of burglaries of which he stole young teens’ clothing. He broke in because he’s comfortable doing so and saw this as an opportunity to not only score clothes, but the girl in the news’ clothes. Simple (and stupid.) He’s cleared and I trust LE for having come to that conclusion.

 

[SeekingJana]

Very sexy women from other countries that need translation to read their words. I think most of them are looking for that K1Visa to come to the USA! I think they 'friend' anybody that asks. MOO

K1 visa process

Image: sagabio.com
Obtaining the K1 visa is a multi-step process. First, the U.S. citizen files a petition to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). Once that is approved, the foreign fiancee will be allowed to complete the process to obtain a K1 visa.

Thank you. I understand this happens. I appreciate your reply so very much.

 

[Waterdog]

OK, let me be clearer. My apologies. Are they prostitutes on the streets, exploited young girls, perhaps with a common " handler"?
" Foreign" " young girls" sets off a few alarms considering this man has fresh criminal charges. However, as I said, he would not be seeking to exploit them in any way,but possibly to want to look like them, copy some of their looks, etc.

IMO, he wants to not only look like them but be them. Live and let live.

Back to Jayme.