AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #16

[Le Singe]

Just to be clear when I voted in the poll that I think Jayme was the target that's me saying me say I think that's the most likely scenario (IMO by far the most likely scenario). It doesn't mean I reject or refuse to consider any other possibilities.

Another clarification is ... lets says there's an older boyfriend 18-25 year old loser type he decides he has to kill the parents so he and Jayme can run off together or whatever crazy crap is in his head. Some people would say that the parents where the target, but in that scenario IMO Jayme is still the target, possessing her is still the catalyst for the events that occurred.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In my mind it was blind rage. No premeditation, no real forethought.

It seems very methodical to me. More like carrying out his premeditated plan.

He may have already thought out what he was going to do if no one willingly opened the door.

I don't see rage as much as I see they were determined to do what they came to do.

Imo

 

[SharonNeedles]

There is a similar case that has many of the same characteristics:

- Parent/guardians in the home brutally murdered
- Home broken into with the goal of taking young child(ren)
- Nothing else of real value taken besides children
- One of the abductees was young female

Perp in this case was a violent sex offender who had multiple previous instances of abuse of children.

And that brings us right back to what started this line of discussion. What you cite is not “a home invasion gone terribly wrong”.

 

[MassGuy]

Just to be clear when I voted in the poll that I think Jayme was the target that's me saying me say I think that's the most likely scenario (IMO by far the most likely scenario). It doesn't mean I reject or refuse to consider any other possibilities.

Another clarification is ... lets says there's an older boyfriend 18-25 year old loser type he decides he has to kill the parents so he and Jayme can run off together or whatever crazy crap is in his head. Some people would say that the parents where the target, but in that scenario IMO Jayme is still the target, possessing her is still the catalyst for the events that occurred.

Agreed. When I first heard about this case, my immediate assumption was that she was involved, something that we have seen many times before.

When I heard the details here, I quickly dismissed that theory.

This case has none of the elements of any of the other cases where a teen has killed their parents and run off with a lover.

No known boyfriend.
No history of family conflict.
No police calls.
Apparently close family.
Shes very young.

This crime scene also looks nothing like those cases.

That scenario it totally and unequivocally dismissed as far as I am concerned.

 

[SharonNeedles]

The Short case began in a small, rural town with the perp shooting Mr. Short in the head on his carport and continued into the house and shooting Mrs. Short in the head in her bedroom. The 9-yo child was kidnapped and found dead weeks later in another state. It's still not solved. JMO

So we’re totally not clear on what the motive there was either.

 

[cody22]

I wonder- could LE have possibly put those cameras there to see if any strange vehicles drove by their home and paused in front of the house? Sometimes, perps do like to go back to the crime scene, for whatever reason. Some are even brazen enough to go to the place that they bury their victims.

That is a good thinking and sleuthing post. Thanks for sharing that thought.

 

[IslandGirrl]

Results from page 43 to 47

2 Undecided (Margarita25, SkipperKey3)

2 NO (kay74, Lillymac)

4 YES (SandyQLS, Paul S., Jbetty567, Regit)

Anyone else?

I honestly go back and forth between yes, an abduction that was planned and wrong house. 1) yes , abduction... Maybe rage was involved, for example , because they felt Jayme was kept from them somehow. Never know what a fixated person believes in their mind. If she was not the target, I feel there would have been 3 homicide victims found. It would take too much time and too much possible attention with a spur of the moment decision to take her.

2)Perhaps wrong home... because others raised some valid points that made me think that if not abduction, a mistaken home over either drugs or something personal. Being the wrong home and too late, see Jayme, realize they chose wrong house and didn't want to kill her OR triggered them to take her for other reasons I am sure I don't need to spell out. If they took her realizing wrong home and LE was called and they grabbed her, I fear they would come to conclusion they have to either kill her or sell her. I really hope not.
So.... I am leaning towards 1 yes, abduction. 2 scenario is the only other one that would make me think otherwise at this time. I sure hope all of this makes sense. lol So abduction but not with 100 percent certainty at this time.

 

[kay74]

Just let me know if LE and FBI checked the employment records where they worked to see who was fired within the last month or more before their killings or who quit. IMO one of them got someone in trouble hence the rage.

 

[Le Singe]

As per the poll question, for those who think abducting Jayme was the motive, do you believe it was a planned event, or a situation of impulse and opportunity?
I guess today I'm leaning towards it being some kind of thrill kill scenario where all the actions were a part of the agenda. Something like taking deer season to a whole new level by achieving these diabolical goals.
That strikes me as ludicrous too, but the crimes are not falling into any familiar pattern for me.

I don't think it was some type of totally random event like someone was walking or driving down the highway and was like ... see that house there ... I'm going to rain down ungodly hell on that particular house right now..

BUT

I don't think it was something that was meticulously planned either. I find two like scenarios:

1. older wanna be boyfriend 17-25 predator type: there was probably some pre-planing but it was probably half-assed as many of these type people are rarely intellectually mature nor are they very realistic. [in this situation the perp may have been know to the parents and that is part of the reason they were killed but they were not the target they simply, in his mind, were a block in the way of what he wanted]

2. More random Matthew Hoffman ish type stalking predator: In this case I think the idea of possibly offending against Jayme was in his mind for awhile washing around and then he got loaded or had some type of stressor enter his life and he impulsively decided YOLO and charged in to his blitz style attack.

I do think for sure in his mind as the perp approached the door of the house that night he knew his ultimate goal involved Jayme.

Clear as mud right lol sorry.

I think once we know what happened we are going to find out the the perp being unknown and unarrested thus far is going to be much more based on luck than any planning or skill.

 

[bizzle2]

Just let me know if LE and FBI checked the employment records where they worked to see who was fired within the last month or more before their killings or who quit. IMO one of them got someone in trouble hence the rage.

This had to have been done within the first week. If there were something there I sense we'd know about it. That's why I'm not liking the work angle.

 

[MassGuy]

Just let me know if LE and FBI checked the employment records where they worked to see who was fired within the last month or more before their killings or who quit. IMO one of them got someone in trouble hence the rage.

That’s absolutely something they would do.

These things tend to be committed by people who have some sort of connection to the victim(s). Reviewing employee records would be standard procedure.

 

[SharonNeedles]

To be real honest, I think we might be looking at something so bizarre here I question whether it will ever be solved unless LE has fingerprints or dna that we’re not aware of.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

To be real honest, I think we might be looking at something so bizarre here I question whether it will ever be solved unless LE has fingerprints or dna that we’re not aware of.

I’m beginning to feel the same as you

 

[MassGuy]

To be real honest, I think we might be looking at something so bizarre here I question whether it will ever be solved unless LE has fingerprints or dna that we’re not aware of.

I could see that. My hope in that case is that this involved multiple people.

Criminals don’t stop, and at some point someone will talk.

 

[photographer4]

They were motion activated cameras. When the crime scene was active, there was someone there 24 hours/day, so there would have been no need/reason to have those kinds of cameras there. In fact, they would have been self-defeating in that regard.

Also, why have the cameras up AFTER the crime scene investigation at the home ends? No need to protect a crime scene when they had already returned the property to the family a week or more ago, right?

JMO.

Interestingly now that someone has indeed visited the home and robbed it, the home was being cleaned by by a crime scene clean up crew (or the likes thereof). I wonder: was that the earliest the clean up crew was available considering when the home was released? Or is it only being done now bc someone they thought may visit the home and did so, or now they think someone won’t given the entire planet is aware that the scene was monitored after LE released it by motion activated cams?

 

[photographer4]

I agree. If they suspected a certain individual I would think there are easier ways to track them down. Installing the cameras shows how thorough they are. I imagine they are doing all kinds of clever things that we don't know about. It's amazing what is involved in an investigation like this. Jmo

Maybe they added some trail cams as well?

 

[Nerissa]

I do think if the perps were fired from Jennie-O, or a family squabble, or some unknown love interest of Jayme's or even someone who she threatened to 'out' for abusing her....(though the last might be part of what I'm about to speculate...)

I think it likely the killer is right there......not far from the home
And - guess what? - someone you would NEVER suspect......

Didn't the BTK killer murder a family just down the road....?

How can you catch someone who won't be in any database, who is totally off the inner circle radar of the family....?

Who simply went back to their nearby home......

I've no clue what the protocol is with interviewing neighbors....I'd like to think every door would be knocked in a rather large radius - but even then....perp may seem totally innocent

Another poster mentioned the possibility that the only reason Jayme was taken was the 911 call - they removed her to finish the crime elsewhere.....

 

[Angleterre]

Why do the Police treat the general public as the problem in all of this? Real,concrete information seems limited in the Closs case. Pass the information out. We are not the problem. We just might be the solution.

I fully understand why LE keep information as I have done so myself on my own investigations and there are numerous reasons why it’s done. But what baffles me is that USA LE keep almost all cards close to their chest to the point of secrecy yet once a perpetrator is arraigned and is to appear before the court for due process, the Prosecution and Defence lawyers play out in front of the media, all the strengths of their own case and try their best to vilify and negate all the evidence pertaining to their opposing team. So the public form opinions even prior to the commencement of the trial . And the perpetrator is already convicted or otherwise in the court of public opinion when it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

I’m not saying that we have the best system in the U.K. but one thing we cannot do and you can be charged with obstruction or perjury etc if you do, is discuss the case and the evidence, in a forum of any kind ( not inc in lawyers presence or Home ) but especially in public . This is called subjudice and is a big NO NO to the point where the whole case can be dismissed as well as those discussing it ,arrested .
It’s just an observation that I’ve made from both watching the USA Court process on TV and being on Websleuths and seeing how little information is released ( especially when it’s a cold case of many many years with no leads yet they still hold tight and won’t release what they have to assist in people having their memories jogged and phoning in.

All MOO

 

[Bluepopsicle]

It’s pretty standard to release that information. It’s something I always pay attention to in cases like this.

I don’t think they expected the kidnapper to return, as that simply doesn’t happen.

I also don’t believe that they believe, that she is alive. Or atleast have any information that indicates that.

I really appreciate your insights, and I wanted to ask you or any of you other sleuthers on here.... is it standard or common to release such little information as they seemed to have on this case? I’ve not followed a lot of cases, but I have read quite a few news stories on crime, and it seems there’s so little information that’s been released on this crime, compared to others I remember.

For instance, if there was an assault (sexual or otherwise) that night, isn’t it usually commonplace to have those details reported? Even the fact that they aren’t speaking to whether the house was ransacked, or whether a struggle occured (although I feel it’s safe to assume a struggle of some sort occured)...I don’t know, it all just seems like there’s so little information, and it seems unusual to me. But like I said, I haven’t followed many cases, so I’m wondering if this is the norm. Or perhaps because there’s a missing person? I’d love to hear others’ insights.

 

[msmamanana]

I don't think it was some type of totally random event like someone was walking or driving down the highway and was like ... see that house there ... I'm going to rain down ungodly hell on that particular house right now..

BUT

I don't think it was something that was meticulously planned either. I find two like scenarios:

1. older wanna be boyfriend 17-25 predator type: there was probably some pre-planing but it was probably half-assed as many of these type people are rarely intellectually mature nor are they very realistic. [in this situation the perp may have been know to the parents and that is part of the reason they were killed but they were not the target they simply, in his mind, were a block in the way of what he wanted]

2. More random Matthew Hoffman ish type stalking predator: In this case I think the idea of possibly offending against Jayme was in his mind for awhile washing around and then he got loaded or had some type of stressor enter his life and he impulsively decided YOLO and charged in to his blitz style attack.

I do think for sure in his mind as the perp approached the door of the house that night he knew his ultimate goal involved Jayme.

Clear as mud right lol sorry.

I think once we know what happened we are going to find out the the perp being unknown and unarrested thus far is going to be much more based on luck than any planning or skill.

I definitely can not see older wanna be boyfriend being 17-25. This crime in no way fits with that demographic. If it were a school shooting, yes. When I think older wanna be boyfriend here (if that could even be the case), I would have to peg it 30-45 and addicted to *advertiser censored* to the point of being delusional.