AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #16

[Jethro4WS]

They were motion activated cameras. When the crime scene was active, there was someone there 24 hours/day, so there would have been no need/reason to have those kinds of cameras there. In fact, they would have been self-defeating in that regard.

Also, why have the cameras up AFTER the crime scene investigation at the home ends? No need to protect a crime scene when they had already returned the property to the family a week or more ago, right?

JMO.

Law enforcement released the home and removed the crime scene tape less than 12 hours prior to the burglary.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. If they suspected a certain individual I would think there are easier ways to track them down. Installing the cameras shows how thorough they are. I imagine they are doing all kinds of clever things that we don't know about. It's amazing what is involved in an investigation like this. Jmo

It helps that they are being supported by extensive Federal and State resources. From what I read in the charging document, these cameras were monitored by state law enforcement.

No way could a small local department do that.

 

[Jaded_musician]

What if the Closs family had installed cameras before any of this and LE was able to use that information and continue to monitor those cameras.

 

[MsBetsy]

To seal the front door so no more grown men who like to wear little girls clothes can come in and loot the place ? Just guessing.

I didn't see the picture the other poster was referring to. Is it the piece of plywood that was put on the bottom part of the doorway?

 

[FlamingoLady]

Maybe the family installed the cameras. The property was turned over to them. They could have their own reasons for doing so.

 

[cluciano63]

I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a teenager if that was not their intent...no offense to parents or victims, but someone else’s teen is no picnic, imo, in the best of circumstances. That is what makes it scarier now...if the perp is less than tolerant (and he clearly is NOT the tolerant sort) he may just get fed up trying to placate, silence, etc a bored, scared teenager.

In some ways, it makes me hope she IS with someone who wanted her...her chances would be better. Jmo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Law enforcement released the home and removed the crime scene tape less than 12 hours prior to the burglary.

So, this homeless guy must have been following the news somehow, right ?

 

[Gardener1850]

Now that posting has slowed down, I would be very interested in internal polling here. I am not the best poster to setup that sort of thing, but I would like to see condensed opinions as percentages. For example:

YES: You think abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

Or

NO: You do NOT think the abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

I know most of you have considered all the great ideas and multiple scenarios, but what is your strongest gut feeling or thought process on just that Yes or No.

Thank you.

Thank for participating in the poll. I think WS'ers are an excellent focus group. Results pages 43-53:

10 Undecided (Margarita25, vmmking, Charliegizmo49, SeekingJana, Waterdog, MassGuy, pinkfly, Steelslady,Cass523, chihuahua)

13 YES (SandyQLS, Paul S., Jbetty567, Regit, Le Singe, Lamima, bizzle2, Jaded_musician, LaborDayRN, cpeacock1, Moonsie, Mountain_Kat, Lady Justice21)

9 NO (kay74, SkipperKey3, Lillymac, WiseOwl, Get off my lawn!, proctorelites, AuctionGal, Cj707, I84tea2)

32 responses

Undecided 31.3%
YES 40.6%
NO 28.1%

Put me down as a YES. I don't know of any crime where a murder preceded a spontaneous abduction of a child and the child was not the reason for the murder/or for the abductor being there in the first place. On the other hand, there are several examples of similar crimes where family members were murdered and children taken. It makes the most sense to me at this point that taking Jayme was the purpose of the crime.

 

[curious jane]

As per the poll question, for those who think abducting Jayme was the motive, do you believe it was a planned event, or a situation of impulse and opportunity?
I guess today I'm leaning towards it being some kind of thrill kill scenario where all the actions were a part of the agenda. Something like taking deer season to a whole new level by achieving these diabolical goals.
That strikes me as ludicrous too, but the crimes are not falling into any familiar pattern for me.

 

[MyBelle]

I’m not aware of any “home invasion” that started with the perp blasting their way in and killing then ending in an abduction. Maybe it has happened before and of course it’s possible until it’s been eliminated, but no that’s not on the table for me unless something new comes out to suggest it.

The Short case began in a small, rural town with the perp shooting Mr. Short in the head on his carport and continued into the house and shooting Mrs. Short in the head in her bedroom. The 9-yo child was kidnapped and found dead weeks later in another state. It's still not solved. JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

I am on my phone now and don't know how to link but other posters have linked several cases where the parents or others in the home were murdered and then young children kidnapped by the perp.

Of course Joseph Duncan murdered three...mother..boyfriend and teen son before kidnapping Shasta and Dylan. After torturing and raping Dylan for 6 weeks he murdered him as well.

The Short parents were murdered inside of their home and their little girl kidnapped and later found murdered.

In one case a pedophile tried to burn down the home hoping to murder the little girl's family then he kidnapped the child and she is presumed dead at the hands of the pedophile.

There are more cases than these though. Perhaps you could search in the prior threads to find some of them or do a Google search.

I would do it but as I said i just started posting on my phone and haven't learned how to do links yet.

Imo

Has anyone made a spreadsheet of these similar cases yet?
I don't know how to do one, but I think it would be helpful to have.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Glad to read that Jayme's photo is on the cover of In Touch Magazine, with full spread coverage of the case inside. Whatever the magazine is- good for national media exposure. Folks can spot it while in lines at supermarkets and such.

 

[tmar]

Thinking and writing for the first time.
Wonder about Jayme Jazz Ballet Performances. Have friends whose children do it dance. I also confess doing a local theater and Jazz ballet in my younger days and it is still brings out the nasty side of people even strange twisted people.
The worse case was of Caroline Reed Robertson, that really shook the Australian Dance Industry .
What happened in the family home was rage which lead to two murders.
Had Denise and James Closs had a confrontation earlier with someone because they were concern for their daughter's safety. Stage Gossip can be True/ False but does spread fast.
Which lead to confrontation at the family home.

Someone with delusion of having a child like Jayme,or wanting to protect her.

So many scenarios so few clues......information we do have is they were a loving closely bonded family.

Welcome Shadow.
Thank you for the info about the rage, leading to murders, in the Dance Industry.
Recently, there was a TV program, which indicated, in these Kids Dance Programs, there is a great deal of vindictive behaviour present.
MOO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

As per the poll question, for those who think abducting Jayme was the motive, do you believe it was a planned event, or a situation of impulse and opportunity?
I guess today I'm leaning towards it being some kind of thrill kill scenario where all the actions were a part of the agenda. Something like taking deer season to a whole new level by achieving these diabolical goals.
That strikes me as ludicrous too, but the crimes are not falling into any familiar pattern for me.

In my mind it was blind rage. No premeditation, no real forethought.

 

[Steelslady]

There's plenty of reason to suspect who or why though. We have to assume that LE put those cameras out there to gather potential visual/audio data that relates to their investigation into the murders of Jayme's parents and potential abduction of Jayme. That would in all likelihood mean they were anticipating a person or persons with direct knowledge of those things to return to the home.

JMO.

I wonder- could LE have possibly put those cameras there to see if any strange vehicles drove by their home and paused in front of the house? Sometimes, perps do like to go back to the crime scene, for whatever reason. Some are even brazen enough to go to the place that they bury their victims.

 

[Gardener1850]

That crime scene would give them a decent indication.

Was the house ransacked?

Were things taken?

Was anyone tied up?

Do not know X 3

I need to go back and find it, but I thought the Sheriff indicated nothing of value was taken from the house?
(only Jayme)
You guys are right, though, we don't know much about how the scene looked.

 

[MassGuy]

I need to go back and find it, but I thought the Sheriff indicated nothing of value was taken from the house?
(only Jayme)
You guys are right, though, we don't know much about how the scene looked.

Yeah. See if you can find that, I’ll look as well. That would be quite telling, and would validate what I’ve already believed.

This wasn’t a robbery.

 

[MsBetsy]

What if the Closs family had installed cameras before any of this and LE was able to use that information and continue to monitor those cameras.

They probably would have seen the perp in that case.

 

[Gardener1850]

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what we are seeing in this first pic ? It almost appears to me to be an interior door, but my eyes are terrible, so I'll bow to better eyes on this.

It looks like plywood on the ground to me-- perhaps the plywood they took off the door?
Do the steps seem to be discolored in places? Were they like that before? I need to go back and find the painting company pic...

Paul Blume on Twitter

 

[cluciano63]

Not knowing Jayme’s fate makes it impossible to compare to prior cases, imo.