AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #16

[MassGuy]

Do you think the house/crime scene has been cleaned?

Happened today.

Paul Blume on Twitter

 

[tmar]

October 8 is exactly one week prior to the discovery of the scene, Oct. 15. Oct. 22 is exactly one week following Oct. 15. From Oct. 22 back to Oct. 8 is exactly two weeks. Unfortunately, there may be no significance to this and more evidence that the investigation is still highly generalized. I may be missing something here though or have my dates wrong. Such a discovery, an odd date or time period, is likely good news, a narrowing is taking place.

Hi caseface.
Welcome to Websleuths.
You are most observant with numbers, and I certainly hope, we have good news, using these figures and your thoughts.

 

[Le Singe]

There have been some very high profile kidnappings for ransom. There was the Getty heir, the Patty Hearst kidnapping, Frank Sinatra's son, probably many more in history which definitely had drug components to them. This is one true crime topic I'm actually a bit too young to respond fully to, but it has happened... kids were drug users by their family statements, and the people who abducted them from an apt. or college campus like setting were also drug addicts who wanted money.

I'm not sure if this fits, but it seems to come the closest to what you're saying. Plus, each case is extremely interesting historically! ( Severed ear sent to elderly grandfather J. Paul Getty- uggh).

The distinction is those where specific planned kidnappings. Those happen regularly, and i agree the ones you listed are very interesting (what i know of them anyway)! BUT IMO what the poster was searching for was when a totally different crime was planned and carried out, but on the spur of the moment the criminal decides to also kidnap a child when kidnapping or otherwise committing crimes against that child had not been the original intend of the crime and had not been pre-planned.

 

[SeekingJana]

I have always wondered if their initial report on the vehicles of interest were partly based on paint transfer evidence or tire track evidence. Could the missing tree bark be due to vehicle paint being transferred if a vehicle scraped or hit the tree at some point. Seems a bit high up on the tree, idk. Just speculation.

Raising hand here!!!
I KNOW the FBI has paint chips for every vehicle in modern history scanned in. I had to look at tons of Corvette red paint colors year by year.

They are AMAZING with analysis of fibers, paint, ink, all substances I can think of which have lot numbers or manufacturer differences.

 

[SeekingJana]

The distinction is those where specific planned kidnappings. Those happen regularly, and i agree the ones you listed are very interesting (what i know of them anyway)! BUT IMO what the poster was searching for was when a totally different crime was planned and carried out, but on the spur of the moment the criminal decides to also kidnap a child when kidnapping or otherwise committing crimes against that child had not been the original intend of the crime and had not been pre-planned.

My stars, I can't even wrap my head around all those factors. I'm sorry I gave inaccurate data. It wasn't my intent.

 

[human]

Anyone care to venture a guess as to what we are seeing in this first pic ? It almost appears to me to be an interior door, but my eyes are terrible, so I'll bow to better eyes on this.

Looks like plywood. Way too thin for a door. But what would that thin piece of wood be all about?

 

[DocBrew]

It’s pretty standard to release that information. It’s something I always pay attention to in cases like this.

I don’t think they expected the kidnapper to return, as that simply doesn’t happen.

I also don’t believe that they believe, that she is alive. Or atleast have any information that indicates that.

If they didn't expect someone to return, why go through the investigative trouble of setting up motion-activated cameras around the property?

 

[tmar]

I am really hoping they didn't realize a child would be in the home, maybe Jayme was found in her bedroom hiding and they thought ****, DC just made a 911 call, I'm not prepared to murder a child right now- kid you're coming with me until I figure out what to do next. I don't think she had anything to do with this in any way shape or form.

The killer may have been a family man, with a child himself.
I agree, he possibly was not aware there was a child at home.
His paternal instincts may have prevented him from murdering Jayme.
MOO.

 

[Le Singe]

My stars, I can't even wrap my head around all those factors. I'm sorry I gave inaccurate data. It wasn't my intent.

You didn't give in accurate information! sorry I was simply trying to better explain where i was coming from.

 

[SandyQLS]

YES: You think abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

Or

NO: You do NOT think the abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

I know most of you have considered all the great ideas and multiple scenarios, but what is your strongest gut feeling or thought process on just that Yes or No.

Thank you.

Thank for participating in the poll. I think WS'ers are an excellent focus group. Results pages 43-53:

10 Undecided (Margarita25, vmmking, Charliegizmo49, SeekingJana, Waterdog, MassGuy, pinkfly, Steelslady,Cass523, chihuahua)

13 YES (SandyQLS, Paul S., Jbetty567, Regit, Le Singe, Lamima, bizzle2, Jaded_musician, LaborDayRN, cpeacock1, Moonsie, Mountain_Kat, Lady Justice21)

9 NO (kay74, SkipperKey3, Lillymac, WiseOwl, Get off my lawn!, proctorelites, AuctionGal, Cj707, I84tea2)

32 responses

Undecided 31.3%
YES 40.6%
NO 28.1%

 

[Stina]

Now that posting has slowed down, I would be very interested in internal polling here. I am not the best poster to setup that sort of thing, but I would like to see condensed opinions as percentages. For example:

YES: You think abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

Or

NO: You do NOT think the abduction of Jayme was the primary purpose of this crime.

I know most of you have considered all the great ideas and multiple scenarios, but what is your strongest gut feeling or thought process on just that Yes or No.

Thank you.

My intuition replies with a resounding YES!

 

[human]

The killer may have been a family man, with a child himself.
I agree, he possibly was not aware there was a child at home.
His paternal instincts may have prevented him from murdering Jayme.
MOO.

As crazy as it sounds, the Manson family was not to kill people with children. Pregnancy did not count, I guess

 

[MassGuy]

If they didn't expect someone to return, why go through the investigative trouble of setting up motion-activated cameras around the property?

They anticipated someone going there, but there’s no reason to know why, or who.

 

[Rosiebones]

If the two different vehicles that the LE asked folks to be on the look out for are not on the street anymore for whatever reason, couldn't the LE work backwards and look up all the red/orange Chargers registered at the DMV in Baron county for instance and check out where they are? It may take some time but there aren't that many people and vehicles in Barron county.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

That says Jennie-O paid for the funeral expenses. It is good to know they took care of their long term employees like that and they didn't feel the need to broadcast it (they only shared it in response to a reporter's question). Some criticized Jennie-O previously for not offering a reward sooner but they have since offered $25,000 and IMO their quiet contribution to pay for the funeral shows that as a company they are not interested in using this tragedy for gain. I don't especially like turkey, but they get an A in my book for doing the right thing for their employees and the community they operate in. JMO.

I was searching for schedule info and came something about Jennie-O that impressed me. Not sure when it was from but it was in reference to the company giving employees a part of the years profit to say thank you.

 

[DancingMuse]

<respectfully snipped for brevity. Although it looks like they snared the wrong bear... and it would be very hard to re-set the trap.

I agree with you and others, Pepper 34, that "they snared the wrong bear".

Several Websleuthers have suggested the KJA-as-patsy-angle in recent posts:

If LE thinks this is true, it opens up even more directed questioning of KJA. And, Now that KJA is “safe” (from a scarier, more powerful person who has committed double homicide and teen abduction) by being arrested & held, I am completely confident that LE has an appropriate line of questioning prepared for KJA while he is spending time in jail.
​

On the other hand, KJA has been absolutely CLEARED with regards to the crime we are examining, and he could just be a local relatively-harmless guy (with issues obviously) who lurks in the shadows, but REALLY knows his way around Barron on foot and on bicycle, during the day and night.

I continue to believe, hopefully, that KJA can provide LE with valuable information.
To this end, I would be very interested in his responses to these questions from LE about him maybe witnessing the staging of the crime:

1. Hey, K., … You can help us out here, and be a hero. We know you walk along the railroad tracks behind the Closs property.​

a. Have you seen anybody back there the last couple weeks?

b. A car? ATV?

c. Has there been a tent anywhere along those tracks?​

2. How about that graveyard/dairy/fill-in-the-blank near the Closs home?​

a. A Truck in the vicinity, recently, odd time for that establishment, motor running?

b. People, sitting in their cars there at night, no lights, ……..?​

I still believe LE can jog his memory about something crucial he saw at his job (such as: hostilities between people in the company cafeteria, i.e. James and someone else ), or, out and about town, where KJA WITNESSED something very important BUT doesn’t even know it is critical to solving Jayme’s disappearance.

 

[tmar]

I’m wondering if the Jayme Closs case is a new form of crime. Historically,abductions have been from the side of the road. This has nothing to do with a drugs hit ! Nothing. This was a targeted abduction. Jayme had been stalked. And this was born from the Facebook posts. Hope I haven’t offended anyone. This is my first post.

Welcome Paul.
Your first post here.
If Jayme had been stalked, I hope LE have gathered some evidence, we are not aware of, at this time.

 

[cody22]

Results from page 43 to 47

2 Undecided (Margarita25, SkipperKey3)

2 NO (kay74, Lillymac)

4 YES (SandyQLS, Paul S., Jbetty567, Regit)

Anyone else?

I think the sexual assault, and then murder of Jayme in the house, was the main objective. When the 911 call was made, then the decision to abduct her was made.

 

[SharonNeedles]

May I ask why since its certainly happened before to other families and children.

It sure is on the table of possibilities for me.

Imo

I’m not aware of any “home invasion” that started with the perp blasting their way in and killing then ending in an abduction. Maybe it has happened before and of course it’s possible until it’s been eliminated, but no that’s not on the table for me unless something new comes out to suggest it.

 

[DocBrew]

They anticipated someone going there, but there’s no reason to know why, or who.

There's plenty of reason to suspect who or why though. We have to assume that LE put those cameras out there to gather potential visual/audio data that relates to their investigation into the murders of Jayme's parents and potential abduction of Jayme. That would in all likelihood mean they were anticipating a person or persons with direct knowledge of those things to return to the home.

JMO.