AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[MassGuy]

Drug cartels invade the northwoods of Wisconsin

From that article: The DEA says these pot farms are linked to Mexican cartels. Does this mean we're going to start seeing bloody gun battles in the woods between police and the drug lords? State and federal agents say "absolutely not." They were adamant that they do not expect shootouts or kidnappings - the kinds of things you see going on in Mexico and southern California.

These are operations to grow/produce drugs. These people are concerned about one thing: profit.

Blowing away a family, and kidnapping a child, would be completely detrimental to their goals.

They don’t want attention, and don’t victimize families like the Closs’.

That’s not how they work.

 

[Creole Sleuth]

I wish we could see a floorplan. I've lived in two ranch homes (one story with a basement). Bedrooms on one end, living room, dining room, kitchen on the other. My opinion only but I think the front door opens into the living room, I think there is likely a dining room in the front corner, with sliding doors to the patio. That would put the kitchen in the back corner. Meanwhile, above the garage would be the bedrooms, supported by the narrow eyebrow windows on the far side of the house. There I would expect to find 3 bedrooms and one hall bath, and maybe a small master bath, if the layout is like mine. I know the clothing thif indicated that Jayme's room was to the right of the sliding doors, but that doesn't compute with what I know of that style house. I wonder if, in entering through the sliding door if there is a straight line thru to the bedrooms, and Jayme's is on the right side, which would place it on the back side of the house and also potentially closest to the basement stairs. I wonder what horrendous story those walls tell...
Please let arrests be forthcoming...

Further up in this thread, I posted a link to a video showing the side patio sliding doors and a link to the Kyle Jaenke-Annis warrant, which states that Jayme's room is immediately to the right of the sliding doors. Hope this helps with a picture of the floorplans.

 

[JRW]

From that article: The DEA says these pot farms are linked to Mexican cartels. Does this mean we're going to start seeing bloody gun battles in the woods between police and the drug lords? State and federal agents say "absolutely not." They were adamant that they do not expect shootouts or kidnappings - the kinds of things you see going on in Mexico and southern California.

These are operations to grow/produce drugs. These people are concerned about one thing: profit.

Blowing away a family, and kidnapping a child, would be completely detrimental to their goals.

They don’t want attention, and don’t victimize families like the Closs’.

That’s not how they work.

Again, I only posted this link due to someone saying that Cartels are not present in Wisconsin,,,, trying to keep minds open instead of closing out all possibilites

 

[MassGuy]

Again, I only posted this link due to someone saying that Cartels are not present in Wisconsin,,,, trying to keep minds open instead of closing out all possibilites

It’s one thing to have an open mind, but every one of us can throw out theories all day, theories that can be improbable at best.

Discussing the most unlikely of these theories, has a tendency to draw everyone away from ones that are far more likely.

Could this be some type of unprecedented act by some element of organized crime? Sure. But there are far more likely possibilities.

JMO

 

[Quill]

I am not a fan of the gang theory either... I simply posted the story about gang activity because someone's post seemed to think that drug cartel activity in the area does not occur... I think we need to be very careful about thinking inside a box here. Any scenero could be possible and nothing should be immediately ruled out. An open mind will help locate Jayme faster. I still have faith she is out there and alive.

I agree with you about an open mind. I think people need to rethink what they think gang activity really is and where it occurs. Whether or not it is responsible for this tragedy, I do not know. In my opinion the possibility should be open for discussion.

 

[JRW]

It’s one thing to have an open mind, but every one of us can throw out theories all day, theories that can be improbable at best.

Discussing the most unlikely of these theories, has a tendency to draw everyone away from ones that are far more likely.

Could this be some type of unprecedented act by some element of organized crime? Sure. But there are far more likely possibilities.

JMO

I have strong theories of who is involved and I dont believe its organized crime... To say its unlikely is one thing but to say that it is absolutely not possible is another. I just see alot of people trying to push the story down a one lane road and not look at any other possibilites...this can be just as dangerous to the outcome as improbably theories.... unless a theory has good proof to back it up it shouldn't' be considered the only option.

 

[carbuff]

Talking about "gangs" brings to mind images of West Side Story and teens with nothing better to do.

Today's gangs are organized crime.

 

[Cardinal47]

Most of us thought it unlikely Mollie Tibbets would be killed in a little hometown in Iowa by an undocumented illegal working on a dairy farm with a fake drivers license and ID but darn...it happened.

 

[pepper 34]

Lake Superior in October? Never. Better think about this pretty hard. You wouldn't be here in a 26 ft. boat. Superior is much more notorious than Erie. (Minnesotan here.)
Oct 3 2018 18 ft waves.
Oct 10 2018 20 ft waves.
Oct 11 2018 55 - 65 mph winds.

Sounds like the gales of November came early... not really meant to be a joke. Seriously, I had no idea... is this typical for this time of year? It's worse than ocean waves and the mph. Hard to imagine a lake with such conditions.

 

[MassGuy]

Most of us thought it unlikely Mollie Tibbets would be killed in a little hometown in Iowa by an undocumented illegal working on a dairy farm with a fake drivers license and ID but darn...it happened.

We knew she was abducted and likely killed. The question in that case was if she knew her assailant or not.

People kept bringing up “sex trafficking” there. I said that same thing about that theory as I am saying about gangs or cartels here.

That’s not how it works.

 

[pepper 34]

Has anyone google-mapped other addresses from recent arrests on Hwy 8/ 13 1/2 Street to see if they pin correctly? I wonder if there's an address that pins incorrectly to the Cross' house...

I've tried but it's been frustrating and can't be sure if it's accurate. I have even used Google Earth at street level to try and read the red markers near driveways in order to get an accurate assessment. However, some of those red markers can't be read either. Even with the ones you can read, you can't be sure of the next number down the street, if you can't read the post.

 

[mtnlites]

From that article: The DEA says these pot farms are linked to Mexican cartels. Does this mean we're going to start seeing bloody gun battles in the woods between police and the drug lords? State and federal agents say "absolutely not." They were adamant that they do not expect shootouts or kidnappings - the kinds of things you see going on in Mexico and southern California.

These are operations to grow/produce drugs. These people are concerned about one thing: profit.

Blowing away a family, and kidnapping a child, would be completely detrimental to their goals.

They don’t want attention, and don’t victimize families like the Closs’.

That’s not how they work.

I feel like the board has turned to just a Mexican cartel discussion. While it's good to entertain all theories, there's been nothing released to point this towards being cartel related.

Similar crimes have happened in the past and were not cartel related. The scary thing is, a single depraved individual could have pulled this off. It's happened before. This did not have to be any kind of organized group crime.

 

[pepper 34]

We knew she was abducted and likely killed. The question in that case was if she knew her assailant or not.

People kept bringing up “sex trafficking” there. I said that same thing about that theory as I am saying about gangs or cartels here.

That’s not how it works.

I just can't imagine that JC or DC (or Jayme) could possibly come to the attention of gangs or cartels so I can't imagine either groups being responsible for the murders. The murderers being on drugs? That I can imagine but, using my own rough theory as to what happened... drugs could just as easily not be involved as far as the killer's habits go. He or they might be just as capable of rage while straight as someone who uses drugs and loses control of temper. It's the rage, resentment and need for revenge that I find to be the outstanding characteristic here and some people are just like that "naturally."

 

[gipsypup]

We knew she was abducted and likely killed. The question in that case was if she knew her assailant or not.

People kept bringing up “sex trafficking” there. I said that same thing about that theory as I am saying about gangs or cartels here.

That’s not how it works.

I guess when I say “ gangs “ I am trying to be “politically correct” . Gangs can also mean just groups of people with similar motives and values. Not well organized.
I don’t believe this involved sex trafficking since abducting Jayme at any other time would have been easier for them then murdering two people to do it.
I feel that the perp(s) wanted Jayme for their own purposes and the violence and murder was nothing new to them . I wouldn’t categorize it as a professional hit , but I do believe violence and crime is somehow second nature to these perp(s).

 

[MassGuy]

I just can't imagine that JC or DC (or Jayme) could possibly come to the attention of gangs or cartels so I can't imagine either groups being responsible for the murders. The murderers being on drugs? That I can imagine but, using my own rough theory as to what happened... drugs could just as easily not be involved as far as the killer's habits go. He or they might be just as capable of rage while straight as someone who uses drugs and loses control of temper. It's the rage, resentment and need for revenge that I find to be the outstanding characteristic here and some people are just like that "naturally."

That’s exactly my thinking here. If drugs were involved, it was because the perpetrator was under the influence.

That’s definitely on the table for me.

 

[MassGuy]

I guess when I say “ gangs “ I am trying to be “politically correct” . Gangs can also mean just groups of people with similar motives and values. Not well organized.
I don’t believe this involved sex trafficking since abducting Jayme at any other time would have been easier for them then murdering two people to do it.
I feel that the perp(s) wanted Jayme for their own purposes and the violence and murder was nothing new to them . I wouldn’t categorize it as a professional hit , but I do believe violence and crime is somehow second nature to these perp(s).

I agree with you. No matter who did this, this was nothing new to them.

My point is that this person having an extensive history of criminal activity, doesn’t mean an organized crime connection.

 

[mtnlites]

I guess when I say “ gangs “ I am trying to be “politically correct” . Gangs can also mean just groups of people with similar motives and values. Not well organized.
I don’t believe this involved sex trafficking since abducting Jayme at any other time would have been easier for them then murdering two people to do it.
I feel that the perp(s) wanted Jayme for their own purposes and the violence and murder was nothing new to them . I wouldn’t categorize it as a professional hit , but I do believe violence and crime is somehow second nature to these perp(s).

There is a difference between groups of similar types of people, actual gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels. We are talking about totally different operations between the three and the first is really generalizing and stereotyping.

We've been warned on the thread against doing this. I don't want to see it shut down.

 

[Quill]

I feel like the board has turned to just a Mexican cartel discussion. While it's good to entertain all theories, there's been nothing released to point this towards being cartel related.

Similar crimes have happened in the past and were not cartel related. The scary thing is, a single depraved individual could have pulled this off. It's happened before. This did not have to be any kind of organized group crime.

Gangs reach across all ethnicities, and I mean all. This is what I meant when I said that minds should be opened when thinking of what we think of when we use that term. They also may or may not be highly organized and/or connected to larger groups.

But I do agree with what you have said that I have BBMd. I am not married to any one idea. Time will tell. Right now IMO that there is not much for us a the public to go on to speculate one direction or another, sadly.

 

[mtnlites]

Gangs reach across all ethnicities, and I mean all. This is what I meant when I said that minds should be opened when thinking of what we think of when we use that term. They also may or may not be highly organized and/or connected to larger groups.

But I do agree with what you have said that I have BBMd. I am not married to any one idea. Time will tell. Right now IMO that there is not much for us a the public to go on to speculate one direction or another, sadly.

Yes, I am familiar with gang activity and how they work. I guess that's why I just don't see it here.

I think it's great to have an open mind and explore all possibilities. I am not married to one particular theory right now myself. I would just hate to see the thread get to the point where we're having trouble seeing the forest for the trees. Most crimes are fairly simple in nature. I do realize that when we don't have a lot of details, though, it's easy enough to find every road plausible.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Meanwhile ...

UPDATE: Sheriff's department uses helicopter in Jayme Closs search