AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[MassGuy]

I believe the opposite in regards to a planned crime like this. If it was a well planned out crime, at least if I was planning it, I’d plan to leave as little evidence as possible, including she’ll casings. IMO

True. But two things may be true:

This crime wasn’t well planned.

This guy didn’t care about bullet casings.

Revolvers just aren’t as common as they used to be. Atleast in regards to committing crimes.

 

[SeattleStew]

No, I probably said I think it’s at minimum a 38. If I didn’t say it I was at least thinking it. ;-)

Not sure if you saw my post upstream, but Mr. Stew is pretty certain damage shown from your excellent image is from a .38 or 9mm.

Mr. Stew just read to me from dispatch log that arriving officer noted multiple rounds spent, before finding Denise. Mr. Stew says officer knew multiple rounds spent because he saw the shell casings on the floor.

Evidence that the weapon was a semi-automatic.

 

[MsBetsy]

hmmm, maybe .38? .33 is not a round I'm familiar with

"Magnum" just means larger (brass shell) casing. You can't tell by the bullet if the case is Magnum, not with the naked eye. Maybe a ballistics lab could tell, IDK.

Yes, .38 or a .38 Magnum are commonly used concealed carry handgun round. Not the most popular perhaps. It's very close in diameter size to 9mm. The .38 Magnum is a common revolver caliber. I don't see a criminal planning a crime like this with a revolver.

Thank you! Just out of curiousity does anyone know what type of gun is most commonly used by professional killers or in murders associated with organized crime? I'm sure there are many but I just wondered if there was a preference or some more commonly used then others.

 

[SharonNeedles]

True. But two things may be true:

This crime wasn’t well planned.

This guy didn’t care about bullet casings.

Revolvers just aren’t as common as they used to be.

I don’t know that we can say it wasn’t well planned. I’m almost thinking it was.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t know that we can say it wasn’t well planned. I’m almost thinking it was.

I could go either way. I can’t say with any confidence, one way or another.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I believe the opposite in regards to a planned crime like this. If it was a well planned out crime, at least if I was planning it, I’d plan to leave as little evidence as possible, including she’ll casings. IMO

Good point. I never thought about planning such a crime.
I might consider a striker-fire with an extended magazine I pre-loaded (wearing latex gloves) with manufacturers ammo.
6 rounds seems risky. I'm not as fast or accurate with a revolver.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Not sure if you saw my post upstream, but Mr. Stew is pretty certain damage shown from your excellent image is from a .38 or 9mm.

Mr. Stew just read to me from dispatch log that arriving officer noted multiple rounds spent, before finding Denise. Mr. Stew says officer knew multiple rounds spent because he saw the shell casings on the floor.

Evidence that the weapon was a semi-automatic.

Yep, Mr. Stew is spot on.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not sure if you saw my post upstream, but Mr. Stew is pretty certain damage shown from your excellent image is from a .38 or 9mm.

Mr. Stew just read to me from dispatch log that arriving officer noted multiple rounds spent, before finding Denise. Mr. Stew says officer knew multiple rounds spent because he saw the shell casings on the floor.

Evidence that the weapon was a semi-automatic.

I thought it was bullet casings, unless I missed something. Was it ever specified as shell casings? And is a shot gun the only gun that would have spent shells?

 

[MsBetsy]

Am I going crazy or are the same posts appearing twice?

 

[SharonNeedles]

I thought it was bullet casings, unless I missed something. Was it ever specified as shell casings? And is a shot gun the only gun that would have spent shells?

The wording on the dispatch log was “multiple rounds spent”.

The word “rounds” is more generic, it just means somebody shot multiple times. It doesn’t indicate what type of weapon or round.

 

[human]

To me, multiple means a lot. If it was four or five, I would say several. Mutiple sounds impressive.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I don’t know that we can say it wasn’t well planned. I’m almost thinking it was.

I'm leaning that way too. I'm almost ready to say I think they thought about it over several months. A month prior or so an event (stressor/trigger) occurred. Weeks prior started looking for a victim. Week prior planning/gathering items needed, etc. JMO.

MOO profile:
Smaller statue white male, 30 yo (+/- 5 yrs)
no girlfriend/wife (or recent break up)
history/experience/comfortable with grave violence
heavy drinker
criminal record
chronically unemployed or under-employed
lives/lived, works/worked in area (within 10 miles)
no personal/familial connection to family

 

[MsBetsy]

The wording on the dispatch log was “multiple rounds spent”.

The word “rounds” is more generic, it just means somebody shot multiple times. It doesn’t indicate what type of weapon or round.

So even though it was reported that the sheriff said there were bullet casings he may have meant shells? I know this has been discussed before but someone mentioned that LE would differentiate between the two. I just wish we could be sure. Imo

 

[SeattleStew]

The wording on the dispatch log was “multiple rounds spent”.

The word “rounds” is more generic, it just means somebody shot multiple times. It doesn’t indicate what type of weapon or round.

What kind of chance do you think there is of DNA or fingerprints on casings? Have perps been identified this way, if you know, in other cases? TIA

 

[GordianKnot]

DrydenWire

Takeaways from Sheriff F.'s lengthy interview linked above:

• LE is leaning toward it being targeted, but they can't rule out that it was random.
• Sheriff F. stated he "doesn't think" it's r/t drugs. (He's not sure, though).
• Sheriff F. said he believes the public is safe. (He's not sure, though).
• LE doesn't know if it was one bad guy or more than one bad guy. (He's not sure).
• Quote from Sheriff F.: "Right now, we're scratching our heads a little bit."
• LE still doesn't have a working theory of the crime.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm leaning that way too. I'm almost ready to say I think they thought about it over several months. A month prior or so an event (stressor/trigger) occurred. Weeks prior started looking for a victim. Week prior planning/gathering items needed, etc. JMO.

MOO profile:
Smaller statue white male, 30 yo (+/- 5 yrs)
no girlfriend/wife (or recent break up)
history/experience/comfortable with grave violence
heavy drinker
criminal record
chronically unemployed or under-employed
lives/lived, works/worked in area (within 10 miles)
no personal/familial connection to family

I'm wondering if it was planned as well and if that particular house was targeted because of it's isolation and quick escape route. Do we know how many routes there are to and from the house? It seems like he didn't go the same way LE did since they did not see the perp on the way to the house. Imo

 

[SharonNeedles]

So even though it was reported that the sheriff said there were bullet casings he may have meant shells? I know this has been discussed before but someone mentioned that LE would differentiate between the two. I just wish we could be sure. Imo

I don’t think we can be “sure” of anything here, but if there were only shotgun shells I would expect terminology other than “bullet casings”.

ETA: “spent shells” would only refer to a shotgun.

 

[MsBetsy]

What kind of chance do you think there is of DNA or fingerprints on casings? Have perps been identified this way, if you know, in other cases? TIA

I have heard of prints being found on casings but of course the killer may have worn gloves. Imo

 

[cluciano63]

This seems to be the kind of crime that regardless of any weapons that may have been in the Closs home, they wouldn’t have helped...

 

[CuriousMaine]

I'm wondering if it was planned as well and if that particular house was targeted because of it's isolation and quick escape route. Do we know how many routes there are to and from the house? It seems like he didn't go the same way LE did since they did not see the perp on the way to the house. Imo

Google Maps show dozens of routes for anyone familiar with the area. According to a quote about the vehicle from yesterday, they were interested in the route (US 8) west, towards Turtle Lake.