AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[mtnlites]

True, if I wasn't too frightened to do so.

True. When you're outside of the situation, it's easy enough to sit back and say that you would tell or report it. When you're in the middle of it, though, and scared then it's a different story. How I or you or anyone else might react is a moot point because while you can certainly put yourself in someone else's shoes, you can't ever actually BE that person and know how they feel.

 

[mtnlites]

People can't pay you back when they are dead. If there was a life insurance policy it would have been smarter to make the death look accidental. Kidnapping a 13 year old after killing her parents is not the best way to get any sort of money. If there was any money lending going on or gambling taking a teenage girl isn't the way to keep a business going, especially if it isn't 100% legal. How many people would want to bet on anything if they're likely to get killed and have their child go missing? If that's what happens if you owe money what is keeping people quiet?

Sometimes such an act is not about settling the debt from that person, but sending a message to everyone else who might owe.

The Freemans were killed, with the teenage daughter abducted, for this very reason.

 

[cherrymeg]

Sometimes such an act is not about settling the debt from that person, but sending a message to everyone else who might owe.

The Freemans were killed, with the teenage daughter abducted, for this very reason.

This would make me break any code of silence I had. I also would not be paying back anything, what is the point if you can't trust the outcome?

 

[mtnlites]

This would make me break any code of silence I had. I also would not be paying back anything, what is the point if you can't trust the outcome?

It does seem to be effective, however. Reading up on organized crimes and cartels shows that this method of "business" is one that's been used for a century and still going strong.

I don't think this crime had anything to do with either, by the way, but punishing one person (or small group) to send out a message to others IS something that happens.

As someone previously pointed out, there is also the idea that the "debt" wasn't monetary but a reneging on a promise or a failure to follow through with something. Also valid ideas, though I don't feel strongly about them one way or the other.

I try to stay away from saying, "I wouldn't do this" or "I wouldn't do that" because though I can speculate for myself, I can't speak for how other people would react.

 

[cherrymeg]

It does seem to be effective, however. Reading up on organized crimes and cartels shows that this method of "business" is one that's been used for a century and still going strong.

I don't think this crime had anything to do with either, by the way, but punishing one person (or small group) to send out a message to others IS something that happens.

As someone previously pointed out, there is also the idea that the "debt" wasn't monetary but a reneging on a promise or a failure to follow through with something. Also valid ideas, though I don't feel strongly about them one way or the other.

I try to stay away from saying, "I wouldn't do this" or "I wouldn't do that" because though I can speculate for myself, I can't speak for how other people would react.

Some people would take the message the wrong way. If whatever deal was possibly going on taking a kid and murdering her parents can't be a solid business move. If you didn't know for sure that who was involved wouldn't you pay up, or do whatever and never deal with the the people you suspect again? If you keep silent can you think of a good reason to put your family at risk. If one credit card has lower interest rates you'll probably use that card. Are you going to go to a store that treats you like *advertiser censored*? Hopefully not. It's kind of all customer service in the end.

 

[mtnlites]

Some people would take the message the wrong way. If whatever deal was possibly going on taking a kid and murdering her parents can't be a solid business move. If you didn't know for sure that who was involved wouldn't you pay up, or do whatever and never deal with the the people you suspect again? If you keep silent can you think of a good reason to put your family at risk. If one credit card has lower interest rates you'll probably use that card. Are you going to go to a store that treats you like ****? Hopefully not. It's kind of all customer service in the end.

Sorry, I don't know what to say. I'm not a criminal and am not a member of any kind of group known for its criminal activities so I don't actually plan these kinds of things. All I can do is post links to crimes and cases where this happened.

 

[cherrymeg]

Sorry, I don't know what to say. I'm not a criminal and am not a member of any kind of group known for its criminal activities so I don't actually plan these kinds of things. All I can do is post links to crimes and cases where this happened.

Oh. I went a little psycho when my ex gave away my dog to drug dealers. Or traded her for drugs. I did everything I could to get her back. I went to snitching and that's not really my style. I called the police in front of them.
It's sometimes nicer to believe people brought something like this onto themselves. It's like when a kid goes missing and you hope one of the parents is responsible because the other option is worse. It means no one is safe.

 

[Confusion]

Oh. I went a little psycho when my ex gave away my dog to drug dealers. Or traded her for drugs. I did everything I could to get her back. I went to snitching and that's not really my style. I called the police in front of them.
It's sometimes nicer to believe people brought something like this onto themselves. It's like when a kid goes missing and you hope one of the parents is responsible because the other option is worse. It means no one is safe.

BBM
It may be easier to believe people bring something like this onto themselves, but I don't really think it's "nicer". Those who are left behind end up hearing/reading all of these stories that people make up about their loved ones who were taken from them, and in some cases I'd guess that the rumors about them probably hurt almost as much as their deaths. I don't believe either of them had a gambling problem, drug problem or anything else that left them severely indebted to some unsavory characters, or someone else would know about it. How likely is it that one of them got themselves so far in debt that it was worth killing them over without ever asking a friend or family member for a loan to pay off at least a big chunk of what was owed? On the other hand, how are other people supposed to know it's a warning to them to pay off their debts if nobody knows the victim/s had also been in debt to the same person/people? Maybe I'm just too foggy headed to understand, but it just wouldn't make sense to me that someone could go so far into debt because of some illegal (or even legal) activity without somebody knowing. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

BBM
It may be easier to believe people bring something like this onto themselves, but I don't really think it's "nicer". Those who are left behind end up hearing/reading all of these stories that people make up about their loved ones who were taken from them, and in some cases I'd guess that the rumors about them probably hurt almost as much as their deaths. I don't believe either of them had a gambling problem, drug problem or anything else that left them severely indebted to some unsavory characters, or someone else would know about it. How likely is it that one of them got themselves so far in debt that it was worth killing them over without ever asking a friend or family member for a loan to pay off at least a big chunk of what was owed? On the other hand, how are other people supposed to know it's a warning to them to pay off their debts if nobody knows the victim/s had also been in debt to the same person/people? Maybe I'm just too foggy headed to understand, but it just wouldn't make sense to me that someone could go so far into debt because of some illegal (or even legal) activity without somebody knowing. MOO

This scenario in general only makes sense if you're part of the same circle, so to speak. Otherwise, you're right. A message wouldn't be received if you have two people in different places who weren't aware of each other. (Although links to online news stories, texts to check out an upcoming broadcast, etc. could also make someone become aware. And sometimes more tangible "proof" is shown: ie. photos, a souvenir, etc.)

I don't think that the Closses were involved in anything illegal. I still think someone on the periphery became fixated on Jayme. The initial conversation only started because someone asked why a perp would kill a victim over a debt since dead people can't pay. There ARE reasons why it might happen, though I don't think those are relevant to this crime.

 

[cherrymeg]

BBM
It may be easier to believe people bring something like this onto themselves, but I don't really think it's "nicer". Those who are left behind end up hearing/reading all of these stories that people make up about their loved ones who were taken from them, and in some cases I'd guess that the rumors about them probably hurt almost as much as their deaths. I don't believe either of them had a gambling problem, drug problem or anything else that left them severely indebted to some unsavory characters, or someone else would know about it. How likely is it that one of them got themselves so far in debt that it was worth killing them over without ever asking a friend or family member for a loan to pay off at least a big chunk of what was owed? On the other hand, how are other people supposed to know it's a warning to them to pay off their debts if nobody knows the victim/s had also been in debt to the same person/people? Maybe I'm just too foggy headed to understand, but it just wouldn't make sense to me that someone could go so far into debt because of some illegal (or even legal) activity without somebody knowing. MOO

Omg that sounded awful! I meant it makes people on the outside feel better or safer about their lives. Of course hearing things like this isn't "nice" for family members.

If this is you foggy headed you are still sharper than most people. You ask a good question with how would people know it's a warning?

 

[cherrymeg]

This scenario in general only makes sense if you're part of the same circle, so to speak. Otherwise, you're right. A message wouldn't be received if you have two people in different places who weren't aware of each other. (Although links to online news stories, texts to check out an upcoming broadcast, etc. could also make someone become aware. And sometimes more tangible "proof" is shown: ie. photos, a souvenir, etc.)

I don't think that the Closses were involved in anything illegal. I still think someone on the periphery became fixated on Jayme. The initial conversation only started because someone asked why a perp would kill a victim over a debt since dead people can't pay. There ARE reasons why it might happen, though I don't think those are relevant to this crime.

So should we stop this type of discussion? Is it sidetracking real issues?

 

[human]

Sometimes such an act is not about settling the debt from that person, but sending a message to everyone else who might owe.

The Freemans were killed, with the teenage daughter abducted, for this very reason.

But wasn’t someone a drug user?

 

[cherrymeg]

But wasn’t someone a drug user?

You mean in the Freeman case?

 

[human]

You mean in the Freeman case?

Yes.

 

[cherrymeg]

Yes.

It sounded like the parents were minor drug dealers. Two of the suspects died and Ronnie Busick is I think the only one charged. I'm still having hard time finding a clear reason they burnt down the house killed two people and kidnapped Ashley Freeman and her friend Lauria Bible.

 

[human]

It sounded like the parents were minor drug dealers. Two of the suspects died and Ronnie Busick is I think the only one charged. I'm still having hard time finding a clear reason they burnt down the house killed two people and kidnapped Ashley Freeman and her friend Lauria Bible.

Sociopaths

 

[mtnlites]

But wasn’t someone a drug user?

Yes, but that information wasn't known at the time. It only came out much later. When the parents were killed and the girls taken, LE was pretty much at a loss. In the beginning of that case, we were pretty much at the same place that we are right now with the Closses: every single theory was explored. We have no idea what LE knows and is keeping to themselves, what they may not have discovered yet, etc.

 

[cherrymeg]

Yes, but that information wasn't known at the time. It only came out much later. When the parents were killed and the girls taken, LE was pretty much at a loss. In the beginning of that case, we were pretty much at the same place that we are right now with the Closses: every single theory was explored. We have no idea what LE knows and is keeping to themselves, what they may not have discovered yet, etc.

It's good if they are holding stuff back. If she is alive it could save her life, maybe?

 

[HayLouise]

Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9

#JaymeCloss family shared a couple new photos with me tonight. I asked what features people should focus on- soft giggles, her dimpled chin when she smiles, thick eyebrows, redish blond hair & hazel eyes that may appear almost blue. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Paul Blume on Twitter

 

[HayLouise]

Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9

With no new developments in the #JaymeCloss case. We return to Barron tonight. Please join me at 9pm as the Closs family speaks out about their hurt, anger, fear & HOPE that Jayme is out there somewhere & will be home in time for Thanksgiving. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Paul Blume on Twitter



Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9

Only on @FOX9 live tonight from Barron at 9pm #JaymeCloss Family Speaking Out in 1st interview. "A lot of anger.. but don't let go of the hope."

Paul Blume on Twitter