AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[VeryVeritas]

I don't get the unpaid debt theory as people want their $ back...not much chance of that if you kill the debtors. Or at least make it so others know that was the reason I.e mafia or something.

<modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands of years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Great point cluciano63! Maybe the “debt” was not monetary?? A promise not kept, or some other omission was committed?

Debts do not have to be monetary, but if owed to certain people, this could be the consequence of not making good on it.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I'd bet the FBI has a crime database that is 1000x more in-depth than NamUs, with cross-reference tools, filters, images and techie stuff we never even thought of.

Not nearly as integrated nationally and locally as it could be. Not enough $$ is going into unified shared systems, and not enough FBI to work these cases.

 

[VeryVeritas]

OT...when I went to let my little dog run outside to the courtyard for her morning relief...my door was not locked


Yikes. Had taken her out at midnight and somehow did not lock up.

In northwoods of Wisconsin a LOT of people have rifles and shotguns between their bed and the door... I cant see this being random. Else the perps could have stumbled on a house full of young men with guns. I think they knew exactly what to expect at this house.

 

[DancingMuse]

<modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands if years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

Actually.....weirdly, and sadly, this scenario makes the most sense.

It also explains why the "muscle car" only comes out and drives around for this type of activity.

 

[CarnegieHall]

<modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands if years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

As far-fetched as it seems, this is one of my top five theories as well. If something like this happened, do you believe that the gunshot wounds to Denise and James would indicate this was professional? What I mean, and maybe I watch too many movies, but I would think a single headshot would move the theories towards this direction, versus gunshot to chest or multiple shots to upper or lower extremities would be indicative of a different theory?

 

[kkdj]

If he had been at casino, video would show him leaving, probably even driving away, so if he was followed LE would know by now and likely have a better/any vehicle description jmo.

If he had gone there maybe someone else was the driver to and fro and in their car.
But I think casinos have interior cameras also and they would have spotted him there is he was there. imo

 

[mtnlites]

If he had gone there maybe someone else was the driver to and fro and in their car.
But I think casinos have interior cameras also and they would have spotted him there is he was there. imo

Casinos have some of the best video surveillance in the country. If you're ever in one, just assume that you're being recorded from all angles. And don't wear red. (A cousin who's worked security at several Vegas casinos told us that the high-tech surveillance equipment they have makes red almost translucent. He has regaled us of tales of women and men walking around and appearing topless or bottomless.)

 

[human]

<Modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands of years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

Id this is a show of what happens, what is the point if others do not know this? It would only make sense if this is a message and others redognize the message.

Wouldn’t someone know then and tell?

 

[mtnlites]

Id this is a show of what happens, what is the point if others do not know this? It would only make sense if this is a message and others redognize the message.

Wouldn’t someone know then and tell?

In such a hypothetical situation, they'd probably be too afraid to tell anyone because they wouldn't want their family targeted as well.

 

[human]

In my house the person who's hungry does the cooking. We take turns cooking for the kids.

I was wondering if Jayme and Mom stopped somewhere to pick up food or if James did.

Maybe Jayme and Mom did and attracted the attention of someone who easily followed them home to return later

 

[pepper 34]

<modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands of years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

I know people bet on sports games. Over time, I wonder if it would be possible to get into enough debt this way and how much you would have to owe in order for it to be dangerous not to meet that debt. We think of the casino but could it be betting on sports games during the playing season?

 

[human]

In such a hypothetical situation, they'd probably be too afraid to tell anyone because they wouldn't want their family targeted as well.

They could be a target and at least if they tell, the perps can be found. Either way you are looking over your shoulder.

If you don’t tell, you could be dead anyway

 

[kkdj]

I keep coming back to whoever it was came for Jayme and her parents needed to be eliminated to secure getting her.
To me, it sounds like with someone who was enamored with her and had to have her or an order of a certain look and age placed (and approved) by some underground pedo ring. I just don't see this being random. imo.

 

[human]

I know people bet on sports games. Over time, I wonder if it would be possible to get into enough debt this way and how much you would have to owe in order for it to be dangerous not to meet that debt. We think of the casino but could it be betting on sports games during the playing season?

Wouldn’t people kmow about this?

People play football boards at work. No idea how they work but I think the money is put up front

 

[VeryVeritas]

As far-fetched as it seems, this is one of my top five theories as well. If something like this happened, do you believe that the gunshot wounds to Denise and James would indicate this was professional? What I mean, and maybe I watch too many movies, but I would think a single headshot would move the theories towards this direction, versus gunshot to chest or multiple shots to upper or lower extremities would be indicative of a different theory?

Yes, I agree that different types of Enforcers would do things a certain way so it is conveyed as a message. To insure death, the single headshot execution is both a marker and definitive. Other, more rogue groups might use different signatures, or simply not be as experienced. Or the 911 call might have caused a deviation.

 

[cluciano63]

If the family had big gambling debts or other unsavory debts...LE would know by now imo. I really doubt the money owed scenario.

 

[mtnlites]

Wouldn’t people kmow about this?

People play football boards at work. No idea how they work but I think the money is put up front

There are lots of underground betting systems that one can get involved in. Not saying that James participated in any, but they do exist. Where I live horse racing is a big deal. You can bet at the track or you can bet from an unofficial bookie. There are definitely ways to do it on the DL.

 

[SandyQLS]

<modsnip - condescending >
And these rules weren't invented recently. Many go back in time for thousands of years at least.
Drug dealers, bookies, loan sharks, etc are part of a vast underworld of organized crime.
If you owe money and don't pay (as a customer, or associate) its bad for business... see you don't want other people to think its OK. There is often some leeway as a customer that allows one to dig a deeper hole. But then what? Then you must pay up, do dirty work if allowed OR you become the EXAMPLE of what happens to those who break the rules. Im not thinking this is what happened, but I have listed it as one of the top 5 possibilities. Because it does kinda look like an execution.
James looks like an easy going guy.
Maybe he got in over his head.
Maybe they came to collect for the last time.
He said the wrong thing, and blam.
Denise comes in hysterical and they muscle her around demanding payment.
She breaks down and tells them they have nothing. So they start grabbing Jayme. I think there is only 1 perp because someone used D's phone to dial 911. Or, the 2nd perp was in the vehicle on lookout with engine running.
They then threaten one last time. Give $$ or Jayme will be sold. Denise starts yelling... phone discovered... blam.

Lots of interesting info in your posts. That's my #2 theory (behind #1 a pervert who just wanted Jayme). But the twist is in all the early threads, that Google maps was giving out bad info on the houses there. It is just as probable that the criminal (s) hit the wrong people, were after the other neighbor with the drug history. Even LE sometimes raids a wrong house and they have great capabilities. Out of town gangsters sent to dark, rural Barron County, it would not be a surprise if they got it wrong.

 

[pepper 34]

Wouldn’t people kmow about this?

People play football boards at work. No idea how they work but I think the money is put up front

That's just it... I don't know if there is another way other than at work where people can get involved in betting on games. I don't know how large the stakes get if organized crime also runs such betting pools. I know nothing about gambling other than I played a slot machine one time and I didn't enjoy it so I have no experience and less knowledge than probably most people about the subject.
But, if James had trouble staying away from games like this and Denise was afraid her family would disapprove, it might be something she didn't want them to know about so they really don't know about it. I'm not trying to blame James at all. Millions like to play a bet now and again and a lot of us buy lottery tickets. It's a matter of degree of participation. But, like Very Veritas said, maybe it was just a question of getting in over his head just a little bit at a time with the wrong people.
And, if any of James's friends or co-workers do know, they probably are keeping quiet because of what happened to James and his family.