AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[HayLouise]

Dateline NBC‏Verified account @DatelineNBC

“I used to read all of the stories on these missing kids and my heart broke for all these people. Now, to be living this? It’s unreal.” Jayme Closs, 13, was last seen on October 14, 2018 in Barron, Wisconsin. Can you help find her? #Dateline https://nbcnews.to/2DiiIyk

Dateline NBC on Twitter

 

[cherrymeg]

Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9

#JaymeCloss family shared a couple new photos with me tonight. I asked what features people should focus on- soft giggles, her dimpled chin when she smiles, thick eyebrows, redish blond hair & hazel eyes that may appear almost blue. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Paul Blume on Twitter

Do you know which is the most recent?

 

[Cherry]

If there is third party involvement I would be surprised. IMHO I have not heard nor seen any evidence this is a kidnapping or an abduction. No one from the community is missing. However, I would like to know if all terminated employees hv been exclusively ruled out. Something was going on, and that could have been an affair, a firing, or trouble w a teen. Only LE know if DC or JC had already gone to bed. Only LE know if Mr. Closs had been at work. Saying she was home 'at the time of the shootings' and is 'endangered,' could merely be because of her age. We have heard nothing from LE regarding an actual timeline of events, and we have uncovered nothing to show who this family really was. The lack of SM or straight up truth from LE could be hindering this investigation. Her body has not been found, and I'd like to know if all underground structures have been searched.
Why is this town so deadly silent on the Closs family? They all work at the same plant, and the silence is what bothers me the most. Maybe someone recently built an underground structure for holding a victim. We have nothing to indicate that this minor was taken by force from the home. Did she purchase a bus or train ticket? Does she have her ID or passport w her? Are any of her shoes missing? Is her birth certificate missing? Where is her coat?

The lack of info is devastating, imho.

 

[HayLouise]

Do you know which is the most recent?

Unfortunately no, he never mentioned that in the tweets

 

[Moonsie]

“Family members recently returned to the Closs house in search for answers of their own.”

The thing that surprised me most in the interview was that the family went back in the house. I don’t think I could do that.

moo.

 

[stephlovescheese]

“Family members recently returned to the Closs house in search for answers of their own.”

The thing that surprised me most in the interview was that the family went back in the house. I don’t think I could do that.

moo.

It would be so hard, i agree. But i think many of us would feel compelled to in a desperate attempt for answers!

 

[cherrymeg]

If there is third party involvement I would be surprised. IMHO I have not heard nor seen any evidence this is a kidnapping or an abduction. No one from the community is missing. However, I would like to know if all terminated employees hv been exclusively ruled out. Something was going on, and that could have been an affair, a firing, or trouble w a teen. Only LE know if DC or JC had already gone to bed. Only LE know if Mr. Closs had been at work. Saying she was home 'at the time of the shootings' and is 'endangered,' could merely be because of her age. We have heard nothing from LE regarding an actual timeline of events, and we have uncovered nothing to show who this family really was. The lack of SM or straight up truth from LE could be hindering this investigation. Her body has not been found, and I'd like to know if all underground structures have been searched.
Why is this town so deadly silent on the Closs family? They all work at the same plant, and the silence is what bothers me the most. Maybe someone recently built an underground structure for holding a victim. We have nothing to indicate that this minor was taken by force from the home. Did she purchase a bus or train ticket? Does she have her ID or passport w her? Are any of her shoes missing? Is her birth certificate missing? Where is her coat?

The lack of info is devastating, imho.

I'd rather the police and other LE agencies do their jobs than give out info that could do more damage. I'm guessing they are treating Jayme as still alive which hopefully she is. It would be nice to know what people should look for in suspects. It would be nice to know what clothes, shoes or jewelry Jayme could have had on when she was taken from the house.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sometimes such an act is not about settling the debt from that person, but sending a message to everyone else who might owe.

The Freemans were killed, with the teenage daughter abducted, for this very reason.

Was that ever independently verified other than by the murderer or murderers? I cant remember now if it was one or two suspects.......who can tell anything they want since they know all victims were silenced and made voiceless by them.

Imo I think the main motive and intent to murder the parents was in order to be able to sexually assault the children. There were 2 teen girls right?

I dont think they abducted the girls and then all of a sudden thought 'oh now that we have kidnapped them we are going to torture and rape them.' Imo that was the motive all along.

Defendants have a way of trying to diminish their horrific crimes by victim blaming. They wanted it to seem like it was an afterthought when kidnapping the girls.

The entire thing were blaming the victims including even blaming the girls for their own kidnapping.

I'm not saying the parents weren't into drugs but I have never felt that is really the real motive they were murdered.

I dont even understand why that theory is even included in this case. I read the first recap page on each thread on this case and read there was no alcohol or drugs involved in this case. I assume that is referring to the victims.

I highly doubt this happened because of some mysterious unknown debt they owed either. Jmo

I am puzzled why some seem to think Jim even went to casinos much less owed gambling debts?

Of course I respect all theories but some seem to come out of thin air and are harder to follow for me.

I could understand it if a local reporter had investigated it and found out Jim was a big gambler at the casino. But no one has said anything except he and Denise got along very well and he was a hardworking family man.

I do admit I do feel very sorry for Jim since he is not here anymore to defend himself about what is being speculated.

Imo in the end I think it will become clear none of this had anything to do with what Jim did. Imo he did nothing wrong to bring any of this on his family and himself.

I have close friends in Las Vegas who have lived there for years yet they never go to any of the casinos. Just like people who live close to a busy beach but never go themselves.

I dont think these crimes happened because someone wanted to leave a message because no one has a clue why this happened to a very good family.

Jmo tho

 

[mtnlites]

If there is third party involvement I would be surprised. IMHO I have not heard nor seen any evidence this is a kidnapping or an abduction. No one from the community is missing. However, I would like to know if all terminated employees hv been exclusively ruled out. Something was going on, and that could have been an affair, a firing, or trouble w a teen. Only LE know if DC or JC had already gone to bed. Only LE know if Mr. Closs had been at work. Saying she was home 'at the time of the shootings' and is 'endangered,' could merely be because of her age. We have heard nothing from LE regarding an actual timeline of events, and we have uncovered nothing to show who this family really was. The lack of SM or straight up truth from LE could be hindering this investigation. Her body has not been found, and I'd like to know if all underground structures have been searched.
Why is this town so deadly silent on the Closs family? They all work at the same plant, and the silence is what bothers me the most. Maybe someone recently built an underground structure for holding a victim. We have nothing to indicate that this minor was taken by force from the home. Did she purchase a bus or train ticket? Does she have her ID or passport w her? Are any of her shoes missing? Is her birth certificate missing? Where is her coat?

The lack of info is devastating, imho.

If you don't suspect a kidnapping or abduction at this point, then do you have a different working theory? I guess I've been taking the murder of her parents, the shooting through the door as evidence of her being taken by force, but I also know what you mean.

An underground bunker is possible, as is an addition to the person's house. There's also the possibility of a remote cabin or structure in the woods. Elizabeth Shoaf was kidnapped and held in a bunker that her captor had built for that purpose. If she hadn't had her wits about her and figured out how to play her captor, they may have never found her. The guy wasn't even on their radar.

Ann Sluti was also held by a survivalist type person. Tony Zappa was already a wanted man when he kidnapped her at the mall and held her in the wilderness and in a cabin. The crime kind of confused the FBI agents because although he had a history of car theft, assault, and illegal possession of guns, he didn't profile as a kidnapper.

Katie Beers was kidnapped by someone in her neighborhood in 1992 and held for almost 17 days in a dungeon-type thing he'd built under his house.

Then, of course, there was the terrible case of Colleen Stan who was held for 7 years, some of that spent literally lying in a box under the couple's bed. She wasn't abducted like the others, since she accepted a ride from the couple, but she was definitely held against her will and her story was terrifying.

I do think it's possible that whoever did this could still be in the area. If he planned this, then he may have created someplace to keep her right there under their noses.

 

[IceIce9]

If he had gone there maybe someone else was the driver to and fro and in their car.
But I think casinos have interior cameras also and they would have spotted him there is he was there. imo

I have been inside a camera room at a casino and I was truly stunned at the amount and quality of the video from the cameras. There is virtually nowhere in a casino that you are not being filmed. If they want to review footage to observe everything a particular person has done since entering the casino they can literally watch his every step. When a person walks out of range of one camera he is in range of the next.

The security employees who watch the cameras are excellent. And they watch everything all the time. For one example, they watch for known card counters and other advantage players, who can be blacklisted from a casino. Card counting isn’t cheating, some players have either the mental ability or have trained themselves to count cards to give themselves the advantage at card games, notably blackjack. Casino security constantly watches for known card counters and they can find them even when they are wearing disguises.

And for example if a customer would happen to win a jackpot, attracting attention or maybe was flashing around a large stack of bills and then got robbed after leaving casino property, casino security could review video footage and see if anyone was observing and perhaps following that person around.

Long story short, if there was a bad guy in the casino he would be on camera and his every move could be tracked.

Interesting side note: if someone knows a crime is being committed and they want an airtight alibi sometimes they will go to a casino while it is happening because they know their alibi will be proven on casino video.

This does backfire sometimes though, because if someone has never been to a casino but appears there during a crime investigators will become suspicious.

Disclaimer: I haven’t ever worked in a casino camera room but I was inside one when responding to a medical issue and was invited to stay for a “tour.”

 

[kkdj]

I have been inside a camera room at a casino and I was truly stunned at the amount and quality of the video from the cameras. There is virtually nowhere in a casino that you are not being filmed. If they want to review footage to observe everything a particular person has done since entering the casino they can literally watch his every step. When a person walks out of range of one camera he is in range of the next.

The security employees who watch the cameras are excellent. And they watch everything all the time. For one example, they watch for known card counters and other advantage players, who can be blacklisted from a casino. Card counting isn’t cheating, some players have either the mental ability or have trained themselves to count cards to give themselves the advantage at card games, notably blackjack. Casino security constantly watches for known card counters and they can find them even when they are wearing disguises.

And for example if a customer would happen to win a jackpot, attracting attention or maybe was flashing around a large stack of bills and then got robbed after leaving casino property, casino security could review video footage and see if anyone was observing and perhaps following that person around.

Long story short, if there was a bad guy in the casino he would be on camera and his every move could be tracked.

Interesting side note: if someone knows a crime is being committed and they want an airtight alibi sometimes they will go to a casino while it is happening because they know their alibi will be proven on casino video.

This does backfire sometimes though, because if someone has never been to a casino but appears there during a crime investigators will become suspicious.

Disclaimer: I haven’t ever worked in a casino camera room but I was inside one when responding to a medical issue and was invited to stay for a “tour.”

BBM
Interesting indeed!

 

[Bugurl747]

“Family members recently returned to the Closs house in search for answers of their own.”

The thing that surprised me most in the interview was that the family went back in the house. I don’t think I could do that.

moo.

​

It would be so hard, i agree. But i think many of us would feel compelled to in a desperate attempt for answers!

I would have to.... for advocacy, answers, to be there with them, even if after the fact, and to make a promise right there that I would never stop looking for Jayme or Justice.

I am glad to hear/see the family is pulling together and supporting one another during this unimaginable time. Tragedy can bring people together or tear them apart. MOO

 

[AuctionGal]

I have been inside a camera room at a casino and I was truly stunned at the amount and quality of the video from the cameras. There is virtually nowhere in a casino that you are not being filmed. If they want to review footage to observe everything a particular person has done since entering the casino they can literally watch his every step. When a person walks out of range of one camera he is in range of the next.

The security employees who watch the cameras are excellent. And they watch everything all the time. For one example, they watch for known card counters and other advantage players, who can be blacklisted from a casino. Card counting isn’t cheating, some players have either the mental ability or have trained themselves to count cards to give themselves the advantage at card games, notably blackjack. Casino security constantly watches for known card counters and they can find them even when they are wearing disguises.

And for example if a customer would happen to win a jackpot, attracting attention or maybe was flashing around a large stack of bills and then got robbed after leaving casino property, casino security could review video footage and see if anyone was observing and perhaps following that person around.

Long story short, if there was a bad guy in the casino he would be on camera and his every move could be tracked.

Interesting side note: if someone knows a crime is being committed and they want an airtight alibi sometimes they will go to a casino while it is happening because they know their alibi will be proven on casino video.

This does backfire sometimes though, because if someone has never been to a casino but appears there during a crime investigators will become suspicious.

Disclaimer: I haven’t ever worked in a casino camera room but I was inside one when responding to a medical issue and was invited to stay for a “tour.”

I was at a casino a couple of years ago and while walking past the tables I found a chip on the floor. At first, I thought it was one of those souvenir chips because it had $1000 on it and I had never seen a $1000 chip. I put it in my pocket and then showed my brother. As I was trying to figure out if it was real or not, security came up to me and asked for the chip back. They had seen me pick it up on camera and had found me within minutes.

 

[IceIce9]

BBM
Interesting indeed!

This happened recently in the state where I live. A couple paid someone to burn their house down for insurance, then went to the nearest casino for the entire night the house was burned down. Funny thing was, they had never been to a casino before, and investigators picked up on that right away. When the casino footage was later reviewed it show them walking around, occasionally sitting down at slot machines but not really playing. This was a dead giveaway because people don’t usually walk around a casino for 12 hours straight without playing any machines.

 

[cherrymeg]

This happened recently in the state where I live. A couple paid someone to burn their house down for insurance, then went to the nearest casino for the entire night the house was burned down. Funny thing was, they had never been to a casino before, and investigators picked up on that right away. When the casino footage was later reviewed it show them walking around, occasionally sitting down at slot machines but not really playing. This was a dead giveaway because people don’t usually walk around a casino for 12 hours straight without playing any machines.

Play the penny machines one cent at a time lol. Casinos themselves are pretty legit. They might offer some credit but they don't kill you for it, anymore than anyother company that gives you credit will.

 

[Warwick7]

If you don't suspect a kidnapping or abduction at this point, then do you have a different working theory? I guess I've been taking the murder of her parents, the shooting through the door as evidence of her being taken by force, but I also know what you mean.

An underground bunker is possible, as is an addition to the person's house. There's also the possibility of a remote cabin or structure in the woods. Elizabeth Shoaf was kidnapped and held in a bunker that her captor had built for that purpose. If she hadn't had her wits about her and figured out how to play her captor, they may have never found her. The guy wasn't even on their radar.

Ann Sluti was also held by a survivalist type person. Tony Zappa was already a wanted man when he kidnapped her at the mall and held her in the wilderness and in a cabin. The crime kind of confused the FBI agents because although he had a history of car theft, assault, and illegal possession of guns, he didn't profile as a kidnapper.

Katie Beers was kidnapped by someone in her neighborhood in 1992 and held for almost 17 days in a dungeon-type thing he'd built under his house.

Then, of course, there was the terrible case of Colleen Stan who was held for 7 years, some of that spent literally lying in a box under the couple's bed. She wasn't abducted like the others, since she accepted a ride from the couple, but she was definitely held against her will and her story was terrifying.

I do think it's possible that whoever did this could still be in the area. If he planned this, then he may have created someplace to keep her right there under their noses.

Where has it been said there was shooting through the door?

 

[Trino]

My "today" theory... warning - could change hourly...

I think Jayme was a victim of catfishing. As a normal kid, perhaps she complained of chores, school, not being able to do things to an online psycho. He, a non-local, didn't bother to check the town or area, just simply went to Jayme's house, immediately killed her parents, and in his mind rescued Jayme. I don't think Jayme had any idea something like this could happen.

If she is alive, I also believe the killer has convinced Jayme she is complicit in the crime and will be held accountable. With so much publicity, however, she may have become dispensable, and he has already killed two people.

Where did he take her? Some place where no one would bother him. My immediate guess would be west to the Twin Cities, perhaps an apartment. It's easy to melt into a crowded area, despite publicity. (Someone here might remember the experiment where a poster of a missing child was placed next to a bench where the actor child was sitting. No one responded.) The sheriff seemed to indicate west also. Maybe he works from home, but he still has to get gas, especially food, pay bills.

 

[cherrymeg]

Was that ever independently verified other than by the murderer or murderers? I cant remember now if it was one or two suspects.......who can tell anything they want since they know all victims were silenced and made voiceless by them.

Imo I think the main motive and intent to murder the parents was in order to be able to sexually assault the children. There were 2 teen girls right?

I dont think they abducted the girls and then all of a sudden thought 'oh now that we have kidnapped them we are going to torture and rape them.' Imo that was the motive all along.

Defendants have a way of trying to diminish their horrific crimes by victim blaming. They wanted it to seem like it was an afterthought when kidnapping the girls.

The entire thing were blaming the victims including even blaming the girls for their own kidnapping.

I'm not saying the parents weren't into drugs but I have never felt that is really the real motive they were murdered.

I dont even understand why that theory is even included in this case. I read the first recap page on each thread on this case and read there was no alcohol or drugs involved in this case. I assume that is referring to the victims.

I highly doubt this happened because of some mysterious unknown debt they owed either. Jmo

I am puzzled why some seem to think Jim even went to casinos much less owed gambling debts?

Of course I respect all theories but some seem to come out of thin air and are harder to follow for me.

I could understand it if a local reporter had investigated it and found out Jim was a big gambler at the casino. But no one has said anything except he and Denise got along very well and he was a hardworking family man.

I do admit I do feel very sorry for Jim since he is not here anymore to defend himself about what is being speculated.

Imo in the end I think it will become clear none of this had anything to do with what Jim did. Imo he did nothing wrong to bring any of this on his family and himself.

I have close friends in Las Vegas who have lived there for years yet they never go to any of the casinos. Just like people who live close to a busy beach but never go themselves.

I dont think these crimes happened because someone wanted to leave a message because no one has a clue why this happened to a very good family.

Jmo tho

If the Freeman parents sold drugs on the side, which is unconnected to this case, doesn't make it okay to kidnap two teenage girls. I also have a distrust of people who have a reason to lie and few people to contradict them. They could have been at the house for drugs or drug money but decided to take the girls instead along with the money. It sounds better if you don't admit to being a pedophile. One guy supposedly kept photos of the girls that's a trophy. It doesn't matter if someone uses or sells drugs that doesn't mean you can kill them. The Freeman case comes up with some conspiracies.

With the Closs family have they cleared up whether the door was pushed in by cops or the killer/s?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have been inside a camera room at a casino and I was truly stunned at the amount and quality of the video from the cameras. There is virtually nowhere in a casino that you are not being filmed. If they want to review footage to observe everything a particular person has done since entering the casino they can literally watch his every step. When a person walks out of range of one camera he is in range of the next.

The security employees who watch the cameras are excellent. And they watch everything all the time. For one example, they watch for known card counters and other advantage players, who can be blacklisted from a casino. Card counting isn’t cheating, some players have either the mental ability or have trained themselves to count cards to give themselves the advantage at card games, notably blackjack. Casino security constantly watches for known card counters and they can find them even when they are wearing disguises.

And for example if a customer would happen to win a jackpot, attracting attention or maybe was flashing around a large stack of bills and then got robbed after leaving casino property, casino security could review video footage and see if anyone was observing and perhaps following that person around.

Long story short, if there was a bad guy in the casino he would be on camera and his every move could be tracked.

Interesting side note: if someone knows a crime is being committed and they want an airtight alibi sometimes they will go to a casino while it is happening because they know their alibi will be proven on casino video.

This does backfire sometimes though, because if someone has never been to a casino but appears there during a crime investigators will become suspicious.

Disclaimer: I haven’t ever worked in a casino camera room but I was inside one when responding to a medical issue and was invited to stay for a “tour.”

All of this is so true. We go to casinos in Mississippi during the year. We play card games. We are close with all of the pit bosses who do an excellent job especially with customers they know by first name.

We know we are constantly under camera view. I remember just this past August I won a big hand where tax forms had to be filled out. Before leaving the table I looked up and waved with a thumbs up. Lol

Later my hubby and I were walking back to our room and one of the security managers stopped me to tell me how beautiful everyone in the camera 'sky' thought my outfit was. She said everyday I am there the women who work security always look forward to seeing my outfit for the day.

So they certainly watch every minute of what is happening on the casino floor at all times.

I am glad they do. It makes me feel more comfortable and safe. Even if you win big money they will offer to lock your winnings in their safe instead of using the one provided in the room.

However I think the only reason the casino was even mentioned is LE wanted their excellent camera footage showing the roadway that would show any vehicles passing on the main road around the time this happened.

Jmo

 

[cluciano63]

If everyone is too frightened to talk, that usually means they have knowledge of some kind...which usually means LE knows as much as they do, in small towns. LE prides themselves on knowing the scene and the bad guys in their towns and counties. So I can’t really imagine what this great fear is, other than generic fear of a horrible crime. Everyone is afraid when a terrible crime happens, but how does that stop one reporting actual knowledge if you have it?

If you know who the killer is, they likely know that you know already, so you are already in danger. The safest thing is to get your info to LE. But I don’t get the feeling anyone has any real knowledge or evidence to impart. No one is bragging about this kind of crime, imo.

Jmo