AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[CaseyLPC]

Anyone else think it is odd to kick in the front door when you could have walked to the side of the house and broken the glass doors? It would have taken a lot less effort to shoot it or throw something through it.

Good question. I can't help but think the entire thing is about making a statement. I am not sure to whom the statement is being made, but the blitz and overkill of the entire thing is striking me as on purpose. Definitely to intimidate and induce fear. Coming in the front door would definitely be more difficult than the glass one, but it definitely says "I am in charge and you will do what I want."

 

[HayLouise]

NCMEC‏Verified account @MissingKids

#AMBERAlert still active one month after Jayme went #MISSING in #Wisconsin. Jayme Closs' parents were found murdered in their home on Oct. 15, and Jayme was nowhere to be found. View her poster: http://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/1341017/1/screen …

NCMEC on Twitter

 

[SausagePizza]

Anybody still seeing the Billboards about finding Jayme in your area? Or are they dwindling down now? I have not seen any in at least two weeks.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Last night I had an unexpected knock at my door at 10:45pm. Based on my own reaction, I’m wondering now if I’m envisioning the initial door breach slightly wrong...

Similar situation, kids are in bed asleep. Wife and I are both awake, she’s in one room reading and I’m in another room websluething. The knock was an urgent knock, not necessarily real hard knocking but about 10 rapid knocks. I definitely felt the sense of urgency.

Although I own plenty of weapons, because the surprise and sense of urgency I went to the door unarmed. It’s fair to say I did not feel a threat but instead felt someone was desperate for me to hurry up and get to the door. When I got to the door I did not just immediately open it, nor do I think James would. I turned on the porch light and stepped to the side so I could look out the window to see who was at the door before opening it. I did not recognize the two people at my door, and at that point I did get uncomfortable. But I still did not retreat into the house to arm myself, not exactly sure why. I guess I needed to know what these guys want before I feel the need to defend? Instead I went to the door with my hand at the door knob and hollered through the closed door asking who’s there.

I can totally see that’s exactly what James did. He turned on the porch light and went to the door, and I guess in a sense answered the door as I did, but did not open the door. At that point they kicked in the door and shot James who was standing right there.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Definitely any DNA would be fast tracked in a case of this magnitude, and especially because there is a missing 13 year old, like you said.

DNA has been mentioned, but the nature of it not specified.

Once they start the sample actual testing takes only a few hours. It takes longer to right the report.- first hand knowledge.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The perp almost certainly wouldn't have needed to shoot the door in order to kick it in. If the perp shot through the door, he did so to kill James, imo. Kicking in doors isn't that difficult.

I think he shot with some percision where he knew he had to shoot to get the door open and that would be directly aiming at the locking mechanism that keeps the door closed.

He could have seen cop shows where they gained entry this way. Now they use a smaller portable battering ram tool but for years they blew the lock on the door open by using their handguns.

Once the door had been breeched he immediately swung the door open and shot James who was located on the other side of the door killing him instantly imo.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Jmo, it seems likely that the killer did not leave DNA. But at this point, LE will have collected samples from all over the house and narrow down as much as possible, matching to the three Closs family members, then relatives and friends known to spend a lot of time there, hence the taking DNA for elimination purposes. And see what they have left, if any, which could belong to random mail carriers, repairmen, etc...a crime scene inside a house must be a DNA nightmare.

It is possible the perp touched nothing other than the gun he came in with, presumably, and Jayme as he took her. In fact, it is difficult to see what else he may have touched or left DNA on.

Jmo

Just brainstorming out loud...they may have left saliva (yelling); fiber from his clothes/animals; other materials (hair, thread, mud/dirt, hay, plants, saw dust, metal shavings, etc) from a work/home location; finger prints on ammunition; shoe/boot impressions in ground or in house...

 

[Confusion]

This is information posted on the first page of each of these threads: "The [police] department says at this point there are no signs of drug or alcohol use and say this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

This has nagged at me for awhile: Why did the police department find "this case particularly interesting" because "there were no weapons found on the scene"? I wouldn't think killers would leave behind guns in most homicides, yet the fact none were found on the scene is seen by the PD as "particularly interesting."

Makes me wonder if perhaps it was determined that James or Denise, in self defense, had fired a gun, but no weapons were on the scene when LE arrived, meaning the perp took that extra gun when he left.

Right - I think all of that is correct. But it still doesn't address why the PD thought it was "particularly interesting" no weapon was found on the scene. Makes it sound like the PD thinks there SHOULD have been a weapon on the scene, imo.

I thought he said it because most violent crime out there involves either alcohol or drugs and there was no sign of either being used that night. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Once they start the sample actual testing takes only a few hours. It takes longer to right the report.- first hand knowledge.

There are many variables. Strength of the sample, cross contamination, and so forth. Some studies take quite a bit of time.

Amateur opinion based on WS experience on other threads.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think he shot with some percision where he knew he had to shoot to get the door open and that would be directly aiming at the locking mechanism that keeps the door closed.

He could have seen cop shows where they gained entry this way. Now they use a smaller portable battering ram tool but for years they blew the lock on the door open by using their handguns.

Once the door had been breeched he immediately swung the door open and shot James who was located on the other side of the door killing him instantly imo.

Could have happened that way. Perp could have been a small fellow who couldn't kick hard and needed to rely on what he'd seen done on TV shows to get the door open. I'm skeptical, but it's possible.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I thought he said it because most violent crime out there involves either alcohol or drugs and there was no sign of either being used that night. MOO

But the statement says the PD said "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on the scene."

 

[gipsypup]

Police dogs trained to sniff out hidden electronics are leading officers to key pieces of evidence in child *advertiser censored* cases and fraud
This has been touched on recently and I can't see that anyone posted this but this explains, pretty well IMO, just how and what the k-9 dogs are trained to search for.

This electronics angle is very interesting. LE seems to feel they missed something in their initial searches of the house. Could LE have some type of information that leads them to believe the parents may have hidden computer files or devices containing inappropriate material somewhere hidden in the house? There is a lot of talk here about Jayme's possible SM connections , but unfortunately adults also get involved in questionable SM interactions and websites. The rage displayed in this crime appears to me that someone was very angry at the parents and took Jayme as revenge or felt they were "rescuing" her. IMO.

 

[1987]

Yep, an AR-15 style rifle isn't going to be the weapon of choice for most criminals/murderers. Even so, approaching 2 murders per day in 2016 were committed w/ rifles/shotguns. Maybe this case falls in that category.

And if I was going to do a blitz-style attack late at night (that included a plan of firing multiple shots through a front door) on a residence where I knew the occupants likely had access to firearms, I'd prefer the black gun over the handgun for the entry, though I might also be carrying a handgun.

different personalities are going to choose different firearms. the best one is the one the shooter is most comfortable with.

 

[Quill]

When I was driving, we just called the dispatcher and gave the license number of any car that didn't stop, and she contacted the police who issued tickets. I'm not sure how they do it now, this was almost 30 years ago. There are so many who do it now, it would be hard to get all the license numbers without cameras. MOO

OT: A community local to me just this week had officers on school buses to crack down on violations. I had never heard of that and wondered if it is just a short-term solution. The incidents in that community had escalated to the point that something drastic had to be done. A child was killed a couple of hours away in our state the same week that other states had similar tragedies. (22 year old guy went around the bus while was stopped.) I am assuming that in this case, they are radioing the make, model, location and tags if possible.

 

[Quill]

I know this is OT, but I just had to say how nice it was to see you call it 00 buck instead of double odd which too many people I know say. But, back on topic, I hadn't heard that the door was covered in bullet holes (I think someone said at one time that either James or both of them were riddled with bullet holes, but I believe that was discounted.) MOO

Double aught = 00 when talking about Buck shot. Double aught is a term meaning "double zero" or "00". In this use, aught is synonymous with zero.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Last night I had an unexpected knock at my door at 10:45pm. Based on my own reaction, I’m wondering now if I’m envisioning the initial door breach slightly wrong...

Similar situation, kids are in bed asleep. Wife and I are both awake, she’s in one room reading and I’m in another room websluething. The knock was an urgent knock, not necessarily real hard knocking but about 10 rapid knocks. I definitely felt the sense of urgency.

Although I own plenty of weapons, because the surprise and sense of urgency I went to the door unarmed. It’s fair to say I did not feel a threat but instead felt someone was desperate for me to hurry up and get to the door. When I got to the door I did not just immediately open it, nor do I think James would. I turned on the porch light and stepped to the side so I could look out the window to see who was at the door before opening it. I did not recognize the two people at my door, and at that point I did get uncomfortable. But I still did not retreat into the house to arm myself, not exactly sure why. I guess I needed to know what these guys want before I feel the need to defend? Instead I went to the door with my hand at the door knob and hollered through the closed door asking who’s there.

I can totally see that’s exactly what James did. He turned on the porch light and went to the door, and I guess in a sense answered the door as I did, but did not open the door. At that point they kicked in the door and shot James who was standing right there.

So, did you end up buying the Girl Scout cookies or not?

 

[SausagePizza]

Interesting, I mentioned up thread 45 minutes ago about Barron County Sheriffs Dept. not updating FB about Jayme in the last 7 days. Now I see 15 minutes ago they posted an update. So that's a good thing.

 

[peace9274]

Last night I had an unexpected knock at my door at 10:45pm. Based on my own reaction, I’m wondering now if I’m envisioning the initial door breach slightly wrong...

Similar situation, kids are in bed asleep. Wife and I are both awake, she’s in one room reading and I’m in another room websluething. The knock was an urgent knock, not necessarily real hard knocking but about 10 rapid knocks. I definitely felt the sense of urgency.

Although I own plenty of weapons, because the surprise and sense of urgency I went to the door unarmed. It’s fair to say I did not feel a threat but instead felt someone was desperate for me to hurry up and get to the door. When I got to the door I did not just immediately open it, nor do I think James would. I turned on the porch light and stepped to the side so I could look out the window to see who was at the door before opening it. I did not recognize the two people at my door, and at that point I did get uncomfortable. But I still did not retreat into the house to arm myself, not exactly sure why. I guess I needed to know what these guys want before I feel the need to defend? Instead I went to the door with my hand at the door knob and hollered through the closed door asking who’s there.

I can totally see that’s exactly what James did. He turned on the porch light and went to the door, and I guess in a sense answered the door as I did, but did not open the door. At that point they kicked in the door and shot James who was standing right there.

OMG - Don’t stop there!
Please tell us, who was at your door?
TIA

 

[Confusion]

Double aught = 00 when talking about Buck shot. Double aught is a term meaning "double zero" or "00". In this use, aught is synonymous with zero.

I know that, which is why I said it was nice to see someone not call it double odd. It's not me who needs the correcting, it's the people I know (who obviously aren't big hunters!)

 

[andreww]

Great thoughts about the shotgun J Block.

Except long guns of any kind whether some type of rifle or shotgun is the least likely weapon to be used of all firearms by all violent criminals overall from home invasions..robberies ....rapes or murders etc.

The overwhelming majority of violent criminals using firearms uses a semi automatic handgun.

Only around 150 criminals each year chose some type of long gun to commit their crimes.

Imo the reasons are because the handgun is just as deadly and lethal....it is much easier to conceal and carry....its not bulky and it's much harder for the victim to grab the weapon than it would be if they used a long gun which has a long protruding barrel. They also have rapid fire capacity without reloading.

I continue to believe a semi automatic handgun was used in these crime. They can do major damage to doors as well as victims. Multiple casings found makes me think it is a semi automatic handgun which automatically ejects the bullet casings as the bullets are being fired. Jmo

So you are discounting the "two shots" heard by the neighbour? I feel the shotgun theory is quite likely and that the perp was not a seasoned criminal, he made do with what he had. I don't think there is any reason to disbelieve what the neighbours said.