AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Gardener1850]

That is all correct, without doubt. But it also doesn't mean the report isn't accurate. And I gave the report a little more weight when combining it with the remarks of the Sheriff and the first LE to arrive on the scene.

I see how that happened, but with all due respect, I don't think we should put that much weight on the reporter's own wording. And the first respondents first impressions of "possible suicide" turned out to be incorrect. It was changed pretty soon after. Had they continued to think that suicide was possible for several days or up until the ME report was final you might be able to say something odd was going on with this crime scene that they are holding back.

As for the sheriff's own words in the presser:

"On Wednesday, Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said 56-year-old James Closs and 46-year-old Denise Closs deaths were ruled a double homicide.

'[Jayme's] parents died from gunshot wounds that's why we are ruling this a homicide. There was no gun found on the scene. We believe Jayme was home based on the evidence in our case. Some of it from that 911 call and some of it is still part of the active investigation and we're not able to comment on why we believe that,' said Fitzgerald."

Sheriff: Jayme Closs was home at time of murders

I think perhaps you are emphasizing the wrong part in emphasizing what he says after the BBM statement. Note how he says they died from "gunshot wounds"-- plural. I'm reading that as the parents had more than one wound and/or the wounds could not be self inflicted. And those wounds indicated homicide. The gun not being found at the scene is a corroborating fact to the info that they died from gunshot wounds. It doesn't mean that the gun not being at the scene is the only reason that they believe it to be double homicide. MOO.

 

[cluciano63]

Thank you. That shows that the "particularly interesting" wording is not a direct quote of anyone. Here is the article quote in context:



BBM. Note how there is no attribution of that info other than "the department" says... "Particularly interesting" may only be the reporters own wording and interpretation of what was said. It is not a direct quote of what LE said.

Believing Jayme to be in danger to some degree...seems like a massive understatement?

 

[cluciano63]

I see how that happened, but with all due respect, I don't think we should put that much weight on the reporter's own wording. And the first respondents first impressions of "possible suicide" turned out to be incorrect. It was changed pretty soon after. Had they continued to think that suicide was possible for several days or up until the ME report was final you might be able to say something odd was going on with this crime scene that they are holding back.

As for the sheriff's own words in the presser:


Sheriff: Jayme Closs was home at time of murders

I think perhaps you are emphasizing the wrong part in emphasizing what he says after the BBM statement. Note how he says they died from "gunshot wounds"-- plural. I'm reading that as the parents had more than one wound that could not be self inflicted. And those wounds indicated homicide. The gun not being found at the scene is a corroborating fact to the info that they died from gunshot wounds. It doesn't mean that the gun not being at the scene is the only reason that they believe it to be double homicide. MOO.

I don’t think it has to mean that, lol...they died from gunshot wounds...could mean they each had a gunshot wound. Jmo

 

[doktor57]

I don’t think suicide/homicide. But Yes! I have Alwayysss thought to myself what a bizarre comment! Oh! What if he just said that and really recovered a weapon?

I'm willing to give the Sheriff a pass on the comment (it is odd). He's probably exhausted, angry, frightened, and overwhelmed. I don't think those feelings have gotten any better.

 

[Bugurl747]

I don’t think it has to mean that, lol...they died from gunshot wounds...could mean they each had a gunshot wound. Jmo

BBM

One page 1 of the thread under timeline :

10/15/18 1:05:19 - dispatch is advised of one male down, multiple rounds spent. [22]
10/15/18 01:06:19 - dispatch is advised to request ERT; door has been kicked in, male who is down had answered the door. [22]
10/15/18 01:11:02 - dispatch is advised that two subjects are down. [22]

Is your interpretation and opinion that JC died of only one gunshot wound?

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

 

[Gardener1850]

I don’t think it has to mean that, lol...they died from gunshot wounds...could mean they each had a gunshot wound. Jmo

You have a point there. I still take the entire sentence to mean the gunshot wounds indicated homicide. Perhaps they only had one wound each, but the trajectory or the stippling around the wounds makes suicide impossible. Or perhaps James was shot in the head twice but the wounds were so close to each other (or the damage so great) that first respondents on scene could not tell it wasn't one shot. There are many possible scenarios where the wounds themselves would indicate homicide. There are more things that LE looks at besides there not being a gun present at the scene.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Wow, stepped away for a while and my head is spinning reading this thread. So............... Where is Jayme Closs?

 

[Jabarn]

There is no doubt in my mind what we have read in the media from Sheriff Fitzgerald is that this was a double homicide, and Jayme was not found at the scene.

With attention dying down, there does tend to be a trend to relook at all is available for those of us who rely solely on mainstream media sources. So it can seem kind of crazy re-analyzing and re-analyzing. The important thing is this case is still cared enough and that is happening.

I think the information talked about earlier today on the traffic on the road where the Closs’ house sits away from is important.

I also think it’s important to think outside the box, and hopefully the family and those who know them are as well. Remember how long it took Elizabeth Smart’s little sister to put the dots together, especially since she really didn’t have that many.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Why would anyone leave their gun behind though, for any crime? I mean, I know it happens sometimes, I guess I just assumed that would be accidental, not purposefully. For example, if there was a struggle, or something like that. But why would there ever be an expectation of a perp leaving their gun behind?

It is the Sheriff saying the words he says. I find it puzzling.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I questioned it when I saw it posted and looked on general crime reporting sites. That's what is shown on them.

HOWEVER, I just did more searches and have found several murder cases in Barron county courts so the records being reported to crime cataloging sites aren't accurate.

Keep in mind that there are three Barrons to consider. Barron County, the city of Barron, and the Town of Barron (where the Closs' live) that surrounds the city of Barron.

 

[Jabarn]

Exactly! Yet the Sheriff's Department said that "what makes this case particularly interesting is that no weapon was found on the scene."

Well, let’s think.

It may have appeared to be a crime where you would expect a weapon to be on the scene.

It could also be a word choice (“particularly interesting”) because it didn’t match the original crime theory.

So much time has has gone by, and I know, my thinking has changed on how it all went down more than once.

That may just be an innocuous statement and doesn’t translate into anything meaningful at all.

 

[Steelslady]

Exactly! Yet the Sheriff's Department said that "what makes this case particularly interesting is that no weapon was found on the scene."

I'm wondering, could they have used another weapon along with a gun, such as a knife?

 

[bellyup]

Keep in mind that there are three Barrons to consider. Barron County, the city of Barron, and the Town of Barron (where the Closs' live) that surrounds the city of Barron.

It’s all Barron county though, no ?
The stats are by county.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Well, let’s think.

It may have appeared to be a crime where you would expect a weapon to be on the scene.

It could also be a word choice (“particularly interesting”) because it didn’t match the original crime theory.

So much time has has gone by, and I know, my thinking has changed on how it all went down more than once.

That may just be an innocuous statement and doesn’t translate into anything meaningful at all.

Very well could be the case. It was just something that jumped out at me when I reviewed the facts assembled by WS moderator Whiskers16.

 

[Steelslady]

Very well could be the case. It was just something that jumped out at me when I reviewed the facts assembled by WS moderator Whiskers16.

You're not alone in your thinking.

 

[lonetraveler]

I see how that happened, but with all due respect, I don't think we should put that much weight on the reporter's own wording. And the first respondents first impressions of "possible suicide" turned out to be incorrect. It was changed pretty soon after. Had they continued to think that suicide was possible for several days or up until the ME report was final you might be able to say something odd was going on with this crime scene that they are holding back.

As for the sheriff's own words in the presser:


Sheriff: Jayme Closs was home at time of murders

I think perhaps you are emphasizing the wrong part in emphasizing what he says after the BBM statement. Note how he says they died from "gunshot wounds"-- plural. I'm reading that as the parents had more than one wound and/or the wounds could not be self inflicted. And those wounds indicated homicide. The gun not being found at the scene is a corroborating fact to the info that they died from gunshot wounds. It doesn't mean that the gun not being at the scene is the only reason that they believe it to be double homicide. MOO.

Personally IMO, just the fact that he states that Jayme was at home during the murders tells me that the voices/sounds heard on the 911 call revealed way more that he said it did. I think that the close relatives to the Closs's should be allowed to hear the call, even if it may cast a negative image for one or more of the family members in order to see if they recognize any voices of intruders. JMO

 

[Quill]

I believe the discussion was about working all of those hours and his wages.

Still, it is not just a free-for-all in an non-union plant. That is a gross mischaracterization.

 

[Quill]

And if you look it up, this Jennie-O plant doesn't exactly have a clean OSHA history.

Busy cooking today with not much time other than to pop in here and there, much less look it up. My point is simply that just because it is non union, does not mean it is automatically a bad place to work with deplorable conditions. I just wanted to make that counterpoint. I have no personal knowledge of that plant or that industry.

 

[Sunny123]

What I am confused about is what could be suspicious in the idea that he thought suicide at first? I could see if he said murder first, then later we heard, no,it was suicide. But what kind of clue are you thinking of if something was “seen” by this first officer and then later edited out for some reason? I guess I am not seeing anything sinister in thinking suicide first, when I might if they said murder first, then changed it.

I thought I read a post awhile back from a poster that was familiar with handling and dispatching emergency calls. I believe they said that when calls, similar to the one from Denise's phone are received and then hung up, they automatically log them as a suicide attempt until it is determined as something else. I am trying to remember who posted it.

 

[carbuff]

I see we're still going around in the same circles...