AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Ellie1]

Since WS is suppose to be a forum where we can discuss different theories that can be discussed and debated I am going to throw this one out there. **Please note this is only a theory and strictly based on MOO but is one that in my mind anyway puts all the puzzle pieces together
I do believe this was a targeted hit. I think the perps were 2 -one male and one female. I think the perps knew the Closs family and perceived they had done something in the past that caused them the loss of something or someone very important to them I believe the perps have a history of drug abuse I also think the perp/s were probably strung out on drugs at the time of the assault. While I have a specific person in mind due to something mentioned in an interview with Fitzgerald a few weeks ago when a caller called in asking about the whereabouts of certain people I will not mention any names or be any more specific
I also think the rage fueled with drugs resulted in the murders. I think Jayme was taken from these people because in their minds it evened the score. Therefore I think the motive was to kill the Closses and take their daughter
I also think the perp/s have an indirect relationship with the extended Closs family but only due to their kindness.
While I know this is vague and has to be I think it's possible to put the pieces together and I do think LE has. Now to just find them and hopefully also find Jayme
This is MOO

I also think this could be very close to what happened. If so, I wonder if the reason they stopped looking for the Challenger wasn’t because they realized they had the wrong car but because they found it?

 

[Minordetails]

Since WS is suppose to be a forum where we can discuss different theories that can be discussed and debated I am going to throw this one out there. **Please note this is only a theory and strictly based on MOO but is one that in my mind anyway puts all the puzzle pieces together
I do believe this was a targeted hit. I think the perps were 2 -one male and one female. I think the perps knew the Closs family and perceived they had done something in the past that caused them the loss of something or someone very important to them I believe the perps have a history of drug abuse I also think the perp/s were probably strung out on drugs at the time of the assault. While I have a specific person in mind due to something mentioned in an interview with Fitzgerald a few weeks ago when a caller called in asking about the whereabouts of certain people I will not mention any names or be any more specific
I also think the rage fueled with drugs resulted in the murders. I think Jayme was taken from these people because in their minds it evened the score. Therefore I think the motive was to kill the Closses and take their daughter
I also think the perp/s have an indirect relationship with the extended Closs family but only due to their kindness.
While I know this is vague and has to be I think it's possible to put the pieces together and I do think LE has. Now to just find them and hopefully also find Jayme
This is MOO

Hey, this theory works for me. Best explanation I’ve heard so far. So, where are these “certain people”? still missing?

 

[Irmese]

This is my first post here, so I apologize if I didn't use the quote feature properly...

My take on the neighbors quote is that something was lost in translation/transcription due to their accent (I know quite a few folks, myself included, that sound like we're from Canada...especially words with "o", "ou" or "oa" sounds). This is only my opinion, and I could certainly be wrong, but I think:

"and I was about at the boat."

--was really--

"and I was out and about."

Not sure that it matters if they were out by a boat or just out walking the yard, I just remember this being brought up before in an earlier thread as well and figured I'd toss in my $.02.

Thank you all for the thoughtful and civil discussion! I found WS at the start of this case and have now spent more hours than I'd like to admit searching through these threads and many others. Its just nice to see people being decent to each other on the internet for a change!

They don't have an accent, the transcript is wrong. The neighbor does not mention a boat.

 

[bizzle2]

If perp(s) took James out at the front door is it possible they didn’t enter the home through that same door? Maybe they went to another place in order to avoid stepping on blood / leaving bloody prints? Maybe they went around to the sliding door? Grabbed Jayme from there, took out mom somewhere in the home - she’s calling 911 and the guy kills her before she can connect but the call goes thru. He struggles with Jayme and is out a back door thus not leaving bloody footprints or
much evidence behind?

Have wondered about this. If James is lying dead in the front entryway, presumably with a good amount of blood near him, then you’d think it would have been difficult to get out the front door without leaving at least a shoeprint. If the perp was wearing booties or something like that there’d still likely be a smudge or something there. I’d be curious how LE thinks the perp exited the house.

 

[JenniD]

Hey, this theory works for me. Best explanation I’ve heard so far. So, where are these “certain people”? still missing?

I don't know

 

[Lillymac]

They aren't what I'd call elderly, older than the Closs parents, but they don't strike me as doddering old folks who don't remember what happened a few hours before. I found the podcast that goes with the CNN transcript from Ashleigh Banfield. The transcript has lots of small errors in it. I think the audio is clearer in what is meant. One kind of big error in the transcript is the mention of a boat. The neighbor never says anything about the boat. I've also seen some posters saying they think there may have been a mistake in the transcript that changed her stated time from 12:58 to 12:38, but she clearly states the time as being 12:30-ish when they went to bed, and 12:38 when they heard the shots and she looked at the clock. The part that I find interesting is that she says she was out and about at 1:00-ish and saw and heard nothing. I wonder if the Closs' driveway is visible from her yard/house.She may have gone inside by the time the cops arrived, but the dog was hearing something. Too bad the dog can't say what it was, but I'm guessing it was the perps leaving, maybe even the yelling that was heard on the 911 call.

Link to podcast that goes with CNN transcript:

Neighbor interview starts at 19:40

Hunt For Missing Girl After Parents Killed; Frat Boy Accused Of Rape Set To Walk Free! Crime & Justice With Ashleigh Banfield podcast

And an interview with the Daily Mail:

The man says the gunshots sounded like a .22 or .410.


Video: Jayme Closs neighbors heard two gunshots before a 911 call was made | Daily Mail Online

Thank you for explaining the "boat" and "about". I was going to, but just didn't want to deal with it as it has been gone over in previous threads quite a bit.
The simple fact is we have so few facts, I think theories are becoming facts, etc. I have a hard time accepting that they did not know a huge disturbance was occurring near by. Or at least someone on that property didn't. There are two more houses there that I assume are occupied.

 

[Irmese]

I do believe this was a targeted hit. I think the perps were 2 -one male and one female. I think the perps knew the Closs family and perceived they had done something in the past that caused them the loss of something or someone very important to them I believe the perps have a history of drug abuse I also think the perp/s were probably strung out on drugs at the time of the assault. While I have a specific person in mind due to something mentioned in an interview with Fitzgerald a few weeks ago when a caller called in asking about the whereabouts of certain people I will not mention any names or be any more specific

This is MOO

Do you have a link to that particular interview? I agree that it was likely male and female perps.

 

[Minordetails]

I don't know

What about the “kindness” reference? Was that injected into your theory based on pure speculation?? Or something more?

 

[Irmese]

Thank you for explaining the "boat" and "about". I was going to, but just didn't want to deal with it as it has been gone over in previous threads quite a bit.
The simple fact is we have so few facts, I think theories are becoming facts, etc. I have a hard time accepting that they did not know a huge disturbance was occurring near by. Or at least someone on that property didn't. There are two more houses there that I assume are occupied.

I have missed a lot of the information in the threads. It's easy to get thrown off when some theories and assumptions are stated as fact.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Do you have a link to that particular interview? I agree that it was likely male and female perps.

What leads you to speculate that?

 

[bellyup]

Since WS is suppose to be a forum where we can discuss different theories that can be discussed and debated I am going to throw this one out there. **Please note this is only a theory and strictly based on MOO but is one that in my mind anyway puts all the puzzle pieces together
I do believe this was a targeted hit. I think the perps were 2 -one male and one female. I think the perps knew the Closs family and perceived they had done something in the past that caused them the loss of something or someone very important to them I believe the perps have a history of drug abuse I also think the perp/s were probably strung out on drugs at the time of the assault. While I have a specific person in mind due to something mentioned in an interview with Fitzgerald a few weeks ago when a caller called in asking about the whereabouts of certain people I will not mention any names or be any more specific
I also think the rage fueled with drugs resulted in the murders. I think Jayme was taken from these people because in their minds it evened the score. Therefore I think the motive was to kill the Closses and take their daughter
I also think the perp/s have an indirect relationship with the extended Closs family but only due to their kindness.
While I know this is vague and has to be I think it's possible to put the pieces together and I do think LE has. Now to just find them and hopefully also find Jayme
This is MOO

This is pretty close to what my best theory is with a few differences. I don’t think there were two perps. Though someone may have been waiting somewhere for them and Jayme.

I also don’t see heavy drug involvement on the night of the crime. It’s too clean, IMO to have been someone high on anything major. I think this was very planned for the specific reason of killing James and Denise and taking Jayme. A tit for tat move.

I’m more concerned that if this is as you and I seem to believe... what is the exit strategy? I don’t think they thought that far.

 

[human]

Welcome esoxlaser!

Some people in WI, especially older people have an accent. About at the boat could mean he was fishing or just checking his boat. Why would you fish that late at night? Seems suspicious to me.

His boat, if that is what he said, would ge trailered up in the yard. There is no body of water at his house

 

[Rubiconbob]

Have wondered about this. If James is lying dead in the front entryway, presumably with a good amount of blood near him, then you’d think it would have been difficult to get out the front door without leaving at least a shoeprint. If the perp was wearing booties or something like that there’d still likely be a smudge or something there. I’d be curious how LE thinks the perp exited the house.

I don’t know... but initially they did search behind house... had drones ... heat sensing technology... large search was done as if she or she and perpetrators ran out back of house. Don’t know if they thought she was hiding from perp initially ... or find body..

She ran cross country I’m surprised they didn’t check 4/5 miles through woods..

I’m guessing they see her bloody shoe print heading out back... and no other prints... that would lead credibility to quick shots/ hectic scene and perp doing most carnage right at front door...

 

[human]

Also, I find it hard to believe that the man in the interview would not hear a car go by. Speed limit on that road would be 40-50mph, which is typical for WI country roads. Also, he was apparently on the porch.

They are 750 feet away, I believe. They did not see or hear LE cars arrive either. Maybe he was in the bathroom at the crucial time.

 

[JenniD]

Do you have a link to that particular interview? I agree that it was likely male and female perps.

WATCH: Sheriff Fitzgerald Discusses Jayme Closs Investigation on DrydenWire Live! | Recent News | DrydenWire
At about 51:25 into the interview

 

[1987]

This is pretty close to what my best theory is with a few differences. I don’t think there were two perps. Though someone may have been waiting somewhere for them and Jayme.

I also don’t see heavy drug involvement on the night of the crime. It’s too clean, IMO to have been someone high on anything major. I think this was very planned for the specific reason of killing James and Denise and taking Jayme. A tit for tat move.

I’m more concerned that if this is as you and I seem to believe... what is the exit strategy? I don’t think they thought that far.

I don't think a exit strategy was thought of either. I do think she could still be alive. just dropping her off anywhere could always be a choice. leave her alive and take off. let her call home.

 

[Randazzo]

I missed that part of the police log that stated the parents weren't found in proximity to each other? Would you please just link that part of the log? Tia

At 1:08 they began clearing the house. At 1:11 they advised Denise was also down. That's about 3 minutes between clearing the house and finding her. Maybe there was just a delay, but I doubt it. The other timestamps run 1:04, 1:05, 1:06, 1:07, and then 1:08. Then nothing until 1:11. That tells me they were looking around for a bit before finding Denise.

 

[JenniD]

This is pretty close to what my best theory is with a few differences. I don’t think there were two perps. Though someone may have been waiting somewhere for them and Jayme.

I also don’t see heavy drug involvement on the night of the crime. It’s too clean, IMO to have been someone high on anything major. I think this was very planned for the specific reason of killing James and Denise and taking Jayme. A tit for tat move.

I’m more concerned that if this is as you and I seem to believe... what is the exit strategy? I don’t think they thought that far.

You are probably correct regarding the crime being too clean to have drugs involved in that particular night
I can only hope Jayme is still alive. My gut feeling is that she is and I pray it is correct

 

[DancingMuse]

I agree. very near what I think happened. moo.

Wow, Thank you JenniD and 1987.
Your views align with mine.
And JenniD, your summation is better written than anything I could have put forth.

Bingo,.... to everything you theorized.

Additionally, everyone's theories on WS the last couple of weeks have been thought-provoking and have positively moved the discussion forward. BRAVO to everyone who is hanging in there!

Although I am a musician, I am woefully lacking in analyzing acoustics sometimes. (LOL)

Amateur Speculation only:

It is my belief (MOO), that at the beginning-moments of this crime, perhaps both the side door AND the front door were BOTH OPEN simultaneously. (And then maybe closed again deliberately, and quickly, a few minutes later. )

Sadly, the side door was opened as one perp was slipping in to grab Jayme.
Sadly, the front door was already open, while the other perp was shooting towards Mr. and Mrs. Closs.
This could have happened once, or twice very quickly (maybe, again, at leaving).

Acoustically, perhaps, any moments where both doors were open ....were the only times...... sound could carry ("diagonally") up to the Smrekars' home, to be heard clearly by them, and their dog.

Perhaps.
Any other shots (there could have been several, 5, 6, 7 etc.) fired by the perp(s) and so, NOT HEARD by the Smrekars, could have been muffled by JUST the closing of the sliding SIDE DOOR on the patio.

Perhaps.
And that's IF, we are taking the two (2) shots audible to the Smrekars as being at an accurate time, relative to the 911 call.
​

This scenario might account for no bloody footprints back through the living room of the house, if that's actually the case.

I would be very interested to know if the side door was closed or open, when LE arrived 7 minutes later. (???)

(Did LE find the sliding side door locked? unlocked? And, Whose fingerprints were on the side door handle, outside and inside, ~and locking mechanism ~ besides the occupants of the home? )

Just wondering what the sliding-side-door-perp could have done?

a) opened and closed the side door (TWICE)? Perp did this first time to get inside. Then, Closed the door; then open-and-close a 2nd time to leave with Jayme, taken from her bedroom nearby, or
b) opened & closed side door (ONCE); Perp opened side door, left it open during some part of the homicides happening elsewhere in the house, got Jayme, then closed sliding door and escaped with Jayme, or
c) opened sliding side door, ran in, took Jayme, and escaped without ever closing sliding side door.
​

Weirdly, because the Smrekars heard so few shots (only two), I'm inclined to think that the "a) option above" is what happened, and all the other gunshots committed in the homicides were not audible to the Smrekars because the sliding side door was closed.

(MOO)

​

 

[human]

Thank you for explaining the "boat" and "about". I was going to, but just didn't want to deal with it as it has been gone over in previous threads quite a bit.
The simple fact is we have so few facts, I think theories are becoming facts, etc. I have a hard time accepting that they did not know a huge disturbance was occurring near by. Or at least someone on that property didn't. There are two more houses there that I assume are occupied.

The S house is 750 feet away with trees between. How long is a city block? That may give a better perspective.

How far away are the other houses? Most people are sound asleep on a Sunday night at that hour. If they heard anything, they noted it in their deep sleep and remembered nothing about it