AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Irmese]

WATCH: Sheriff Fitzgerald Discusses Jayme Closs Investigation on DrydenWire Live! | Recent News | DrydenWire
At about 51.25

Oh, ok. I've read that before on these boards.

 

[Marzipan]

I was certain there had to be some footprints... and that would at least give a clue to size/height...

Then watched the full 57 minute interview with sheriff... where he answers random questions... about halfway threw he says you’d hope for fingerprints or shoe prints but no.. I was stunned at that..

Made me think booties on shoes or perp simply never even set foot in house..you would think fibers on booties would be left or leave a weird imprint... makes me think never a step in house...

Shooting 2 in entryway is conceivable..
Getting jayme to walk out of house and go with perp without entry makes me think at the least jayme knows perp... Or makes my head hurt cause I don’t want this perp to get away with it...Or dexter moved to baron wi.

Thanks—I missed that part somehow. No fingerprints isn’t surprising but no shoe prints is stunning, especially if none even outside. I hope they have some sort of evidence.

 

[Lillymac]

The S house is 750 feet away with trees between. How long is a city block? That may give a better perspective.

How far away are the other houses? Most people are sound asleep on a Sunday night at that hour. If they heard anything, they noted it in their deep sleep and remembered nothing about it

I live in the country...woods. sound travels. The nearest house to me is 650 feet and I can hear talking from their yard. The police and whoever arrived no more than 30 minutes after they heard the gunshots. I am not arguing this, but speaking from personal knowledge. I hear gunshots all the time, but I stay awake for a bit to make sure they were innocent gun shots.
I'm not accusing the neighbor's of anything, just stating I think it odd.

 

[cluciano63]

More than one perp makes it even unlikelier that no evidence seems to have been left behind...jmo. I am sticking to a lone perp.

 

[bizzle2]

I don’t know... but initially they did search behind house... had drones ... heat sensing technology... large search was done as if she or she and perpetrators ran out back of house. Don’t know if they thought she was hiding from perp initially ... or find body..

She ran cross country I’m surprised they didn’t check 4/5 miles through woods..

I’m guessing they see her bloody shoe print heading out back... and no other prints... that would lead credibility to quick shots/ hectic scene and perp doing most carnage right at front door...

I still think they left in a vehicle. LE seems pretty convinced of it too since one of the reasons they ruled out the creepy panty guy was because he didn’t have a vehicle. But I just wonder about the exit point. Might not help us solve anything, more just to help piece together what happened in that house.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I live in the country...woods. sound travels. The nearest house to me is 650 feet and I can hear talking from their yard. The police and whoever arrived no more than 30 minutes after they heard the gunshots. I am not arguing this, but speaking from personal knowledge. I hear gunshots all the time, but I stay awake for a bit to make sure they were innocent gun shots.
I'm not accusing the neighbor's of anything, just stating I think it odd.

I agree... how often do they hear gun shots?? Why would you not go look outside at neighbors house or lock doors... just random bears outside oh well let’s walk the dog maybe we’ll see a bear ? The neighbors just seem plain odd... they stated they followed cop around there house to see what they were looking for... wtf... why not just get cop a water and say look
Wherever u want.. I think Closs family likely smart in hiding when loopy neighbors come over.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thanks—I missed that part somehow. No fingerprints isn’t surprising but no shoe prints is stunning, especially if none even outside. I hope they have some sort of evidence.

Wow. Under what conditions would there not be footprints? Heavy leaf covering leading up to the doorway? But how couldn’t there be prints in the entryway and house? Do certain rubber shoes leave ghost prints?

I know from our friend TrackerGD that shoeprints are a signature that can tell us a great deal about the Perp. How on earth could there be no prints? Did he take the time to remove them? Seems unlikely.
Wore shoe booties like the rug cleaning guys do?

Scratching my head.

 

[legalmomma]

I live in the country...woods. sound travels. The nearest house to me is 650 feet and I can hear talking from their yard. The police and whoever arrived no more than 30 minutes after they heard the gunshots. I am not arguing this, but speaking from personal knowledge. I hear gunshots all the time, but I stay awake for a bit to make sure they were innocent gunshots.
I'm not accusing the neighbor's of anything, just stating I think it odd.

I too live in a wooded area and agree. This has been my thought from the beginning...wonder if the neighbor's house/outbuildings were searched that morning? Not accusing them, but close by and no inkling of what was going on, they wouldn't have paid attention if the perp hid Jayme in an outbuilding until the coast was clear.

 

[carbuff]

I live in the country...woods. sound travels. The nearest house to me is 650 feet and I can hear talking from their yard. The police and whoever arrived no more than 30 minutes after they heard the gunshots. I am not arguing this, but speaking from personal knowledge. I hear gunshots all the time, but I stay awake for a bit to make sure they were innocent gun shots.
I'm not accusing the neighbor's of anything, just stating I think it odd.

Sound can travel oddly in wooded areas, too. If the neighbors across the street are talking in their back yard, at least 400 feet away, it sounds like it's coming from behind my house right under my windows. I can hear every word the next door neighbors on one side say, but can't even tell whether the neighbors on the other side, about the same distance away, are in their yard.

We hear gunshots all the time that sound very near but come from the other side of the wooded area, close to a mile away. Closer shots in the stream midway between, where hunting is allowed, are muffled.

 

[Lillymac]

Sound can travel oddly in wooded areas, too. If the neighbors across the street are talking in their back yard, at least 400 feet away, it sounds like it's coming from behind my house right under my windows. I can hear every word the next door neighbors on one side say, but can't even tell whether the neighbors on the other side, about the same distance away, are in their yard.

We hear gunshots all the time that sound very near but come from the other side of the wooded area, close to a mile away. Closer shots in the stream midway between, where hunting is allowed, are muffled.

I live "as the crow flies" at least 3 miles from I20. A major interstate hwy. and I can hear the trucks at night.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

This is my first post here, so I apologize if I didn't use the quote feature properly...

My take on the neighbors quote is that something was lost in translation/transcription due to their accent (I know quite a few folks, myself included, that sound like we're from Canada...especially words with "o", "ou" or "oa" sounds). This is only my opinion, and I could certainly be wrong, but I think:

"and I was about at the boat."

--was really--

"and I was out and about."

Not sure that it matters if they were out by a boat or just out walking the yard, I just remember this being brought up before in an earlier thread as well and figured I'd toss in my $.02.

Thank you all for the thoughtful and civil discussion! I found WS at the start of this case and have now spent more hours than I'd like to admit searching through these threads and many others. Its just nice to see people being decent to each other on the internet for a change!

I coulda had a V-8 !!! .

 

[photographer4]

I think they could tell if death had occurred just minutes before, or an hour, even a half hour perhaps. But for sure if they had just died versus an hour earlier imo.

Even if police couldn’t tell, surely the ME could tell them?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Wow. Under what conditions would there not be footprints? Heavy leaf covering leading up to the doorway? But how couldn’t there be prints in the entryway and house? Do certain rubber shoes leave ghost prints?

I know from our friend TrackerGD that shoeprints are a signature that can tell us a great deal about the Perp. How on earth could there be no prints? Did he take the time to remove them? Seems unlikely.
Wore shoe booties like the rug cleaning guys do?

Scratching my head.

A “Clean Room” protocol in food processing mandates wearing gloves, booties etc

 

[bellyup]

Wow. Under what conditions would there not be footprints? Heavy leaf covering leading up to the doorway? But how couldn’t there be prints in the entryway and house? Do certain rubber shoes leave ghost prints?

I know from our friend TrackerGD that shoeprints are a signature that can tell us a great deal about the Perp. How on earth could there be no prints? Did he take the time to remove them? Seems unlikely.
Wore shoe booties like the rug cleaning guys do?

Scratching my head.

So in thinking about "how there are no footprints" I came to a bit of an interesting possible thing to spur new theories.

First: I owned a home eerily similar to this one. Facing the same direction with similar canopy in a similar climate.

So drawing on that knowledge, I think dry conditions, hard packed earth (driveway) , leaf cover and potentially a carpeted home would eliminate the high probability of foot prints in the front of the house.

So then I started to consider entry or exit from the back of the house and was looking aerial views. It seemed unlikely to me that anyone used the back doors in this crime because there is a higher likelihood of yielding prints / being wet in the back of the house. There’s more cover via canopy and block from the afternoon sun which is what would dry an area out.

HOWEVER ... I hadn't realized prior that there is no back exit on the main floor of the home. The only doors are on the lower level of the home where the garages are. From the aerial view I also notice that there is a "basement" behind the garages on those lower levels as indicated by windows. There's a possibility that this was finished as a family room or ... possibly a kids/teen bedroom.

Which COULD put Jayme on the lower level. That opens the door to a lot more possibilities in how Jayme was removed and when.

It also most likely eliminates the idea of a perp at the front door exiting through the back door or any idea that two perps attacked at the same moment (at least on the same floor).

 

[Curiousobserver]

I live in the country...woods. sound travels. The nearest house to me is 650 feet and I can hear talking from their yard. The police and whoever arrived no more than 30 minutes after they heard the gunshots. I am not arguing this, but speaking from personal knowledge. I hear gunshots all the time, but I stay awake for a bit to make sure they were innocent gun shots.
I'm not accusing the neighbor's of anything, just stating I think it odd.

Agree- its hunting season and I can hear shots a mile away very clearly through the woods.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Wow. Under what conditions would there not be footprints? Heavy leaf covering leading up to the doorway? But how couldn’t there be prints in the entryway and house? Do certain rubber shoes leave ghost prints?

I know from our friend TrackerGD that shoeprints are a signature that can tell us a great deal about the Perp. How on earth could there be no prints? Did he take the time to remove them? Seems unlikely.
Wore shoe booties like the rug cleaning guys do?

Scratching my head.

Wow. Under what conditions would there not be footprints? Heavy leaf covering leading up to the doorway? But how couldn’t there be prints in the entryway and house? Do certain rubber shoes leave ghost prints?

I know from our friend TrackerGD that shoeprints are a signature that can tell us a great deal about the Perp. How on earth could there be no prints? Did he take the time to remove them? Seems unlikely.
Wore shoe booties like the rug cleaning guys do?

Scratching my head.

So in thinking about "how there are no footprints" I came to a bit of an interesting possible thing to spur new theories.

First: I owned a home eerily similar to this one. Facing the same direction with similar canopy in a similar climate.

So drawing on that knowledge, I think dry conditions, hard packed earth (driveway) , leaf cover and potentially a carpeted home would eliminate the high probability of foot prints in the front of the house.

So then I started to consider entry or exit from the back of the house and was looking aerial views. It seemed unlikely to me that anyone used the back doors in this crime because there is a higher likelihood of yielding prints / being wet in the back of the house. There’s more cover via canopy and block from the afternoon sun which is what would dry an area out.

HOWEVER ... I hadn't realized prior that there is no back exit on the main floor of the home. The only doors are on the lower level of the home where the garages are. From the aerial view I also notice that there is a "basement" behind the garages on those lower levels as indicated by windows. There's a possibility that this was finished as a family room or ... possibly a kids/teen bedroom.

Which COULD put Jayme on the lower level. That opens the door to a lot more possibilities in how Jayme was removed and when.

It also most likely eliminates the idea of a perp at the front door exiting through the back door or any idea that two perps attacked at the same moment (at least on the same floor).

Excellent points... do you have photo of back of house u can upload ?? I couldn’t find much info on house other than increase value ... nice surrounding homes...

Lower level could be laundry & water heater room... or finished basement... if that’s where jayme was. Gotta rethink some things....

 

[photographer4]

How do we know Jayme didn't place the 911 call? Her mother's mobile may have been the most accessible to her. No talking to 911 as you may not want to be heard, being heard would give the baddies a clue as to where you were. As I said in a previous post I hope the local searches have been done comprehensively and that Jayme has not been missed by the search teams or the dogs. I am still of a mind that this crime was at the wrong house for reasons important by the person or people expecting to find one thing and suddenly realizing they were in the wrong home.

I personally don't think the perpetrator/s took Jayme and that there is a possibility she is close to home and succumbed to whatever elements WI has or injuries she may have sustained.


Oh I didn't realize I had actually posted that post but nevermind. I am simply looking at all the possibilities. It is a possibility Jayme was able to hide for a period of time and get to a phone when she thought it was safe to do so. unfortunately, it wasn't. it is simply a possible scenario nothing more.

I am not thinking Jayme managed to get outside and hide only to succumb to the elements. The sheriff said the phone was on the floor. Closer to Denise than Jim. If Jayme managed to get outside and hide, why was mom’s phone found inside the house on the floor? If Jayme managed to get out, wouldn’t she have brought the phone with her? Given it was located on the floor I’m thinking Jayme may have dialed 911 and was caught doing so by the perp(s).

 

[bellyup]

Excellent points... do you have photo of back of house u can upload ?? I couldn’t find much info on house other than increase value ... nice surrounding homes...

Lower level could be laundry & water heater room... or finished basement... if that’s where jayme was. Gotta rethink some things....

Note: No doors or exit / entry on back side of the main floor.

On lower floor in my edited version ...
Blue = Garage
Yellow = Possible door ? Hard to tell with the trees but looks to be a possible small patio area
Red = "Basement" Could be finished or unfinished but would be enough area to house a family room and/or bedroom

 

[Glaciersnow]

Thank you! A “fling” between an adult and a 13 year old is statutory rape. Moreover, any adult in medical/legal field would be subject to sanctions, potential loss of licensure and firing at the very least. “Fling” in this context is a very offensive oxymoron.

As I said, I didn't mean to be offensive at all. I really thought that "fling" had another meaning and when I checked the dictionary I was speechless. Could we please drop it? I feel really stupid because of my mistake.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I’m glad we are talking about exits.