AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Andreee]

I’m surprised this hasn’t been done already, considering this is day 4 since the discovery. Even a statement saying that it’s not Jayme Closs at this point, assuming they know that, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t. I know I’ve seen that in other high profile cases, where they’ve found a body, but not “the” body of the high profiled case.

Of course, I do think every case of a missing child should be 'high profile', which in reality is not the case!

Those who can not get past the initial incorrect impression of “possible suicide” upon arrival by LE...what do you think is being hidden or otherwise concealed by LE?? I do not understand.

It was explained in an earlier thread and it has been dismissed as a possibility at all.

 

[calo44]

Sadly, I think the hunt for Hania Aguilar (missing teen from Lumberton, NC) may be over:

Body found in search for missing North Carolina teen - CNN

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have my own theory as to why this horrendous crime occurred and have posted in previous threads-I have no theory as to how it went down and I do believe Jayme was abducted but there is one thing that bothers me about Sheriff Fitzgeralds response when asked about Jayme being abducted or involved in any way. In news articles the reporters have used the term "abducted" but I have never seen or heard the sheriff use that term. When asked he seems to get a little uncomfortable and says "Jayme is 13 years old and she is endangered".
Is there a legal reason he doesn't specifically say abducted?
I DO NOT think Jayme is involved other than to be a victim but don't understand his response
Would love to hear other WS take on this

Two possibilities: 1) The investigation hasn't yielded conclusive evidence that she isn't involved or 2) He is trying to dancing a jig because he does, in fact, know the answer.

There isn't anything legally that would prevent him from saying she was abducted, however, it could cause problems in a prosecution if he said so and if Jayme had any involvement with what happened.

Legally, unless Jayme actually shot her parents or conspired to shoot her parents, the other person(s) involved will be charged with Abduction (if Jayme went willingly, regardless of any other role she had) or Kidnapping (If she didn't go willingly, regardless of any role she had) those are two different charges under Wisconsin law and either comes with a 40 years to Life sentence. The homicide charges for the person(s) involved would be 1st degree homicides because either the homicides were intentional or the homicides occurred during the commission of a separate felony (Abduction or Kidnapping) and that is a mandatory Life sentence for each charge.

 

[Confusion]

Makes it more interesting they seem to have gone the opposite way from which all police attended the scene, doesn’t it? Wonder if they knew police would come from the other way and thus exited the area via the other direction on purpose to avoid police

I think most people would expect them to come from in town, even if there was a small chance that one of them could have been returning to town from somewhere west of town. I've always thought that the smartest thing to do would be to drive west for several minutes, turn around and head back east. It seems like they would have been expecting to find someone leaving town in one direction or the other by that time rather than driving into town. Just another of my oddball thoughts.

Lastly. It’s been stated that all cell calls add 3/4 minutes in response time .. due to address confirmation?? Is that accurate and do u always default to address tied to phone or ping location factored in ??

Sorry for all questions... simply don’t know a lot about ur field...

I just wanted to respond to your last question. It has been stated in at least a couple of articles that the cell phone pinged at the house, and that's how they knew where to go. They also had DC's name from her voice mail when the operator tried to call back, so it should have been easy enough to confirm the address. If I remember correctly, the call was made at 12:53 and lasted for about 1 minute. The 911 operator then tried returning the call and calling the land line, which apparently took about 2 minutes. The officers/deputies were dispatched at 12:56, and they arrived at the home at about 1:00. I don't think they had to waste much, if any, time trying to find the address.

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Since it will not go away...may as well join in.

As far as changing a first impression from possible suicide to definite murders...if the reverse had happened, well then I could see eyebrows raised, puzzlement and even some outrage. We have seen cases initially thought to be murders named as suicides and while often correctly, in some cases there has been reason for doubt and even disbelief.

But I am failing to see any sinister implications in one person first guessing a possible suicide. And for what reason on earth would LE and the ME cover up if this was in fact a murder/suicide? Those are increasingly frequent in recent years. Jayme being missing rules that out unless one believes she took the gun and fled and is still successfully hidden six weeks later.

If LE believed her to be armed, they would be obliged to say so jmo.

Anyway...please explain to me, anyone, why LE would lie about manner of death of these two people? Or why it matters that suicide was a first, wrong guess at a horrific scene yet to enfold?

 

[Irmese]

In your experience do you guys think we will ever have a solution on this one? I am usually able to remain hopeful but for some reason I don't have a lot of hope with this one.

I'm hopeful that LE has a lot more evidence than we know about. As for them not releasing the 911 call or other details, I think they have implied the won't say or do anything to harm their investigation. If they make an arrest, they may need the suspect to describe things that haven't been released to the public. Too often some one makes a jailhouse confession or accusation that needs to be tested. I think Jayme might still be alive. It might be a long time before she's found, but I'm hopeful that she will.

 

[debirlfan]

I have my own theory as to why this horrendous crime occurred and have posted in previous threads-I have no theory as to how it went down and I do believe Jayme was abducted but there is one thing that bothers me about Sheriff Fitzgeralds response when asked about Jayme being abducted or involved in any way. In news articles the reporters have used the term "abducted" but I have never seen or heard the sheriff use that term. When asked he seems to get a little uncomfortable and says "Jayme is 13 years old and she is endangered".
Is there a legal reason he doesn't specifically say abducted?
I DO NOT think Jayme is involved other than to be a victim but don't understand his response
Would love to hear other WS take on this

It's possible that police have no evidence that she was actually abducted. It's the logical conclusion, but I suppose there is a possibility (however remote) that she could have escaped from the house and run off into the woods - and either be in hiding, or have met with an accident/exposure and be laying dead somewhere. Yes, I know they searched extensively - but it wouldn't be the first time a search missed something. If the sheriff said abducted and it later turned out that she wasn't, it could hurt the case against the perps.

 

[Maybelline]

It's possible that police have no evidence that she was actually abducted. It's the logical conclusion, but I suppose there is a possibility (however remote) that she could have escaped from the house and run off into the woods - and either be in hiding, or have met with an accident/exposure and be laying dead somewhere. Yes, I know they searched extensively - but it wouldn't be the first time a search missed something. If the sheriff said abducted and it later turned out that she wasn't, it could hurt the case against the perps.

 

[Mistermagoo]

It's possible that police have no evidence that she was actually abducted. It's the logical conclusion, but I suppose there is a possibility (however remote) that she could have escaped from the house and run off into the woods - and either be in hiding, or have met with an accident/exposure and be laying dead somewhere. Yes, I know they searched extensively - but it wouldn't be the first time a search missed something. If the sheriff said abducted and it later turned out that she wasn't, it could hurt the case against the perps.

This was described as a possible abduction and an abduction in the police dispatch log . Bottom of page 5 top of page 6. I don't know why I am going here also but................... If there was anything else in the 911 call, it is the dispatchers job to let the responding officers know what they are walking into i.e. shots fired. There clearly is not.
Also, the first 3 responders all arrived at the same time. The first response was possible suicide. I believe that they were all approaching the house and they had not been up the stairs yet. Then like 2 minutes later a different officer tells dispatch that there is one male down, multiple rounds spent. This is when they probably all actually got to the door, IMO

 

[Rubiconbob]

It's possible that police have no evidence that she was actually abducted. It's the logical conclusion, but I suppose there is a possibility (however remote) that she could have escaped from the house and run off into the woods - and either be in hiding, or have met with an accident/exposure and be laying dead somewhere. Yes, I know they searched extensively - but it wouldn't be the first time a search missed something. If the sheriff said abducted and it later turned out that she wasn't, it could hurt the case against the perps.

I could see that also. She runs cross country. That’s 3 miles at brisk pace very easy for her... skinny as a rail and adrenaline 5-10
Miles not a problem... but drone chopper search didn’t find anything.??

As for abducted/endangered... I always found it odd also ...

Think what he’s saying is... ok if she ran away with somebody... just for sake if argument...
she ran away with somebody who has just killed two people..
If she were to ever have second thoughts about relationship.., not likely killer is gonna say ... didn’t work out.. my bad. Oh and don’t tell anyone I offed your parents ?? We good??

He’s saying there’s getting drunk in Vegas and committing to marriage with stripper...
And there’s this...
both are bad ideas ... but only one will put child in serious danger.

 

[Ol_whatsername]

I have tried to read as much as I possibly can before asking questions but, does anyone know if the phone call came from a cell or landline? And who was the phone registered to? Whose prints were on that phone? Cos whoemevers prints are on the phone was probably the person who called 911...

 

[tmar]

Depends on animal activity- I live in a rural area and see deer hit on the side of the road all the time. Many times it takes only a week or so for most or all of the flesh to be gone (if the area is less traffic and animals can get to it at night). Other areas it takes a lot longer.

This body is a skeleton and as Jayme has not been missing too long, could her body already be called 'skeletal remains'.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I have tried to read as much as I possibly can before asking questions but, does anyone know if the phone call came from a cell or landline? And who was the phone registered to? Whose prints were on that phone? Cos whoemevers prints are on the phone was probably the person who called 911...

911 call came from Denise’s cell phone,

 

[bizzle2]

I have my own theory as to why this horrendous crime occurred and have posted in previous threads-I have no theory as to how it went down and I do believe Jayme was abducted but there is one thing that bothers me about Sheriff Fitzgeralds response when asked about Jayme being abducted or involved in any way. In news articles the reporters have used the term "abducted" but I have never seen or heard the sheriff use that term. When asked he seems to get a little uncomfortable and says "Jayme is 13 years old and she is endangered".
Is there a legal reason he doesn't specifically say abducted?
I DO NOT think Jayme is involved other than to be a victim but don't understand his response
Would love to hear other WS take on this

The answer is in the Dryden interview. (BTW, I highly recommend watching it to everyone who hasn't seen it yet. The Sheriff answers a bunch of questions from the host and from people following on Facebook.) About 42 minutes into the interview is when he answers a question about her being abducted vs missing/endangered.

Facebook Question: Why haven't you said she is abducted? Just missing and endangered.

Sheriff Fitzgerald: Because we don't know that answer. I guess you can say, ya know, we said she's missing and endangered. That goes back to the question - do I think she's involved? I don't think she's involved, but that's a gut feeling on my part. I don't have any evidence I'm withholding so that I can be right here. Again, I'm not looking to be right I'm looking to bring a ten year old, I mean, thirteen year old girl home. So, I think that's just if I say she's abducted or missing and endangered it's the same thing. It's a play on words. And I just can't use the word abducted because we don't know that for fact yet. And that's why we listed her as missing and endangered in the system. So if she turns up in California, or wherever, she gets held by any law enforcement agency has contact with her because she's in the system as missing and endangered.


Here is the interview:
WATCH: Sheriff Fitzgerald Discusses Jayme Closs Investigation on DrydenWire Live! | Recent News | DrydenWire

 

[Deleted member 158085]

This body is a skeleton and as Jayme has not been missing too long, could her body already be called 'skeletal remains'.

In my opinion, it’s highly unlikely.

 

[Rubiconbob]

The answer is in the Dryden interview. (BTW, I highly recommend watching it to everyone who hasn't seen it yet. The Sheriff answers a bunch of questions from the host and from people following on Facebook.) About 42 minutes into the interview is when he answers a question about her being abducted vs missing/endangered.

Facebook Question: Why haven't you said she is abducted? Just missing and endangered.

Sheriff Fitzgerald: Because we don't know that answer. I guess you can say, ya know, we said she's missing and endangered. That goes back to the question - do I think she's involved? I don't think she's involved, but that's a gut feeling on my part. I don't have any evidence I'm withholding so that I can be right here. Again, I'm not looking to be right I'm looking to bring a ten year old, I mean, thirteen year old girl home. So, I think that's just if I say she's abducted or missing and endangered it's the same thing. It's a play on words. And I just can't use the word abducted because we don't know that for fact yet. And that's why we listed her as missing and endangered in the system. So if she turns up in California, or wherever, she gets held by any law enforcement agency has contact with her because she's in the system as missing and endangered.


Here is the interview:
WATCH: Sheriff Fitzgerald Discusses Jayme Closs Investigation on DrydenWire Live! | Recent News | DrydenWire

Good post

 

[elektroangel]

Not sure why it took so long for them to dig deeper... but update tonight says they are:

Investigators conducting more interviews in search for Jayme Closs

 

[crhedBngr]

I swear this is the 50th time I have had to point this out and I can't let stuff like this go because it only ends up introducing confusion into something that is really quite clear.

See page 7 of the call log. The TYPE of call is given as the units are dispatched. For the first several entries you will see in the third column "911 Hang Up (dispatched)".

At the bottom of page 3 you see that units 317, 325, and 329 were the units sent for this call - the "advised 317, 325, 329" part. If you look on page 7 you will see these units dispatched - 325, 329, and 317 in that order. The entries for those are all 911 Hang Up. (dispatched)

If you look at Page 4 the 1:03am entry is where Unit 329 advised of a possible suicide. This is that officer telling dispatch not the other way around.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

If you continue down on page 7 eventually you will see Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched). What that means is that the call was categorized as a 911 Hang Up at the very beginning.

The actual change of the TYPE to Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) didn't actually happen until sometime after unit 317 requested the Emergency Response Team (ERT) at 1:06 am. We can know that because there were units were dispatched as 911 Hang Up. Including the ambulance (501) and Sheriff (301) among others (656, 4100, 4103, 4104, 4007). The first unit dispatched with the call type Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) did not occur until 1:22 am.

Thank you, again.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Not sure why it took so long for them to dig deeper... but update tonight says they are:

Investigators conducting more interviews in search for Jayme Closs

Sounds good... mentions calls last 60 days...
I don’t know if u can retrieve deleted text .. would think that would be interesting read... at least on some potential suspects ?? Especially 10 days prior to crimes..

 

[Gardener1850]

I swear this is the 50th time I have had to point this out and I can't let stuff like this go because it only ends up introducing confusion into something that is really quite clear.

See page 7 of the call log. The TYPE of call is given as the units are dispatched. For the first several entries you will see in the third column "911 Hang Up (dispatched)".

At the bottom of page 3 you see that units 317, 325, and 329 were the units sent for this call - the "advised 317, 325, 329" part. If you look on page 7 you will see these units dispatched - 325, 329, and 317 in that order. The entries for those are all 911 Hang Up. (dispatched)

If you look at Page 4 the 1:03am entry is where Unit 329 advised of a possible suicide. This is that officer telling dispatch not the other way around.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

If you continue down on page 7 eventually you will see Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched). What that means is that the call was categorized as a 911 Hang Up at the very beginning.

The actual change of the TYPE to Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) didn't actually happen until sometime after unit 317 requested the Emergency Response Team (ERT) at 1:06 am. We can know that because there were units were dispatched as 911 Hang Up. Including the ambulance (501) and Sheriff (301) among others (656, 4100, 4103, 4104, 4007). The first unit dispatched with the call type Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) did not occur until 1:22 am.

Your post needs to be a stickie at the top of the thread. Even I had that point wrong at one time because so many were posting "classified as suicide by dispatcher" as if that was fact. Thank you for continuing to correct the misconception of how the call was classified (It was a 911 hang up). It's right there in the dispatch log but the confusion continues for some reason.