AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Maybelline]

Does anyone know why law enforcement is so certain perp had a car ?? I know when weirdo broke into home they quickly said he doesn’t have a car ... so it’s not the perp.. among other things ...

Do they have tire tracks , video of car, did perp say get in damn car on 911 call ??

The police seem certain they used car to escape... that makes sense with 2 people...
But you would think they have something said or found to simply not entertain leaving on foot / atv... or am I reaching.?

Would it be because the detection dog would lose scent once Jsyme got in a car.

 

[DancingMuse]

Would it be because the detection dog would lose scent once Jsyme got in a car.

Thx, Maybelline,
Does anyone know if the detection dog would lose the scent if Jayme was thrown over someone's shoulder and walked down (or up, across,etc.) the street for awhile to a waiting car, let's say, a quarter mile away?

Do detection dogs lose the scent if someone is carried 2-3 feet up, off and above the ground, on someone's shoulder, for a distance? (I'm assuming a large, strong male, who had the strength to kick in a door. One hundred pounds is certainly do-able, esp. if victim is rendered unconscious.)

I honestly don't know. Does anybody here?

 

[bizzle2]

2. BANFIELD: Ok. So often times when a young person goes missing, the digital trail is almost like a popcorn trail, which leads me to the question about Jamie`s social media. 13-year-old girls are almost always on their phones or on some form of social media, I`m guessing, and I think it`s a good guess. You have been blanketing that angle. Have you found any information from her social media? Is it possible she has a phone with her?

FITZGERALD:I do not know the answer to the second part of the question, if she had the phone with her. I can tell you that we are looking at the social media platform.

By this point in the investigation that the interview occured I would think the sheriff knew they had found Jayme's phone charging in the kitchen... so does this mean they don't know if she has a second phone or they didn't want anyone to know they had Jayme's phone.

SBM

I think it's kind of a CYA thing. He can't totally rule out that she has a second phone or something like that, so he's just saying he doesn't know.

 

[bellyup]

Jayme Closs: Barron raises symbol of hope as investigators' frustration mounts

No drugs, no boyfriend or contact with someone online, could be trafficking, we don't know, no longer looking for vehicles. We know nothing. We have nothing.

I've never ever ever in 100's of cases followed seen a case with so little information in a double homicide and kidnapping. This is getting maddening. I have many thoughts right now, but I'm going to avoid a time out. :X

 

[Megnut]

It's entirely reasonable that the neighbors were unaware of a child living next door UNTIL they saw her, saw the school bus. For years there was no bus ...

Moreover, Jayme is an only child, and by all accounts a shy, quiet one. You live near a family with a bunch of social kids, you'll probably know it, but trust me, there's maybe nothing quieter than an only child on a trampoline.

I feel bad for the neighbors. They didn't sign up to hear gunshots, nor to have their words dissected. How horrifying to know you heard a portion of the nightmare that happened next door. Surely they would've called the police if they had felt cause for alarm. All those interviews, I'm sure they were trying to help, in the only way they could.

My heart breaks for Jayme's remaining family.

I hope today brings the tip that brings Jayme home.

MOO

 

[JRW]

Its kind of occurred to me that LE would not know if something was taken if it wasnt there. For instance, lets say James picked up a big bag of weed that day and thats what the perp came for. How would LE know it was missing if they never knew it was there? Its kind of important because if the parents were the targets it was more than likely due to something shady.

I thought the same thing but in my head it may have been a large sum of money... maybe gambling winnings... People with Gambling problems often don't live lavish lifestyles.. they often win large sums of money but save it and sink it back into gambling... I don't know why I thought from previous posts that James may have been a gambler? I know they checked video at the casino slightly after the incident. If he had won a large amount at the casino they would have a record of it, ( Casino's almost always know who their money is going to even if you don't use your players card).... but if he was playing poker or betting on horses or fights through a bookie thats another story noone might ever know the money was there

 

[bizzle2]

Does anyone know why law enforcement is so certain perp had a car ?? I know when weirdo broke into home they quickly said he doesn’t have a car ... so it’s not the perp.. among other things ...

Do they have tire tracks , video of car, did perp say get in damn car on 911 call ??

The police seem certain they used car to escape... that makes sense with 2 people...
But you would think they have something said or found to simply not entertain leaving on foot / atv... or am I reaching.?

It's likely a combination of things. The two that stick out to me would be:

1. If the dogs got to a spot and then totally lost the scent. (I'm thinking this happened, but, obviously we don't know for sure.)

2. Just the fact that they were able to get away so quickly. To get out of the area that quickly the perp would have to have used a vehicle. An ATV might be possible, but that would really up the degree of difficulty versus a car/truck/SUV.

LE could have more than that, but those are the two main ones I can think of.

 

[bellyup]

Thx, Maybelline,
Does anyone know if the detection dog would lose the scent if Jayme was thrown over someone's shoulder and walked down (or up, across,etc.) the street for awhile to a waiting car, let's say, a quarter mile away?

Do detection dogs lose the scent if someone is carried 2-3 feet up, off and above the ground, on someone's shoulder, for a distance? (I'm assuming a large, strong male, who had the strength to kick in a door. One hundred pounds is certainly do-able, esp. if victim is rendered unconscious.)

I honestly don't know. Does anybody here?

There are different types of SAR dogs and they work differently depending upon how they are trained and what they are trained for.

Tracking dogs sniff for particles left on the ground. Air-scent dogs are searching for the strongest "hit" on a particular scent (these are used most commonly for finding a living person that's trapped or missing but may be used in a kidnapping case to follow air trails). Then there are cadaver dogs (their ability is obvious) with that category divided by land and air abilities. And there are various other degrees of training and ability. Some dogs track and some dogs search.

I have no idea what types of dogs they've brought in for this case because the reporting has been so slim. Without knowing the dog(s) and their abilities it's hard to know if they could or would have detected if Jayme had been carried. It's absolutely possible but really depends on the training that particular dog or dog(s) had gotten.

I don't believe they've brought in cadaver dogs from the reporting I've seen which is just another huge question mark in my mind.

 

[Jazzy5980]

I thought the same thing but in my head it may have been a large sum of money... maybe gambling winnings... People with Gambling problems often don't live lavish lifestyles.. they often win large sums of money but save it and sink it back into gambling... I don't know why I thought from previous posts that James may have been a gambler? I know they checked video at the casino slightly after the incident. If he had won a large amount at the casino they would have a record of it, ( Casino's almost always know who their money is going to even if you don't use your players card).... but if he was playing poker or betting on horses or fights through a bookie thats another story noone might ever know the money was there

I worked with a compulsive gambler and she gambled many places both near and far from home.

 

[bellyup]

I thought the same thing but in my head it may have been a large sum of money... maybe gambling winnings... People with Gambling problems often don't live lavish lifestyles.. they often win large sums of money but save it and sink it back into gambling... I don't know why I thought from previous posts that James may have been a gambler? I know they checked video at the casino slightly after the incident. If he had won a large amount at the casino they would have a record of it, ( Casino's almost always know who their money is going to even if you don't use your players card).... but if he was playing poker or betting on horses or fights through a bookie thats another story noone might ever know the money was there

According to the Dryden interview, Fitzgerald stated he didn't know if James had been at the casino or not. (as of Nov 9th) I still don't understand that statement because casino surveillance should have been able to determine that pretty quickly. I understand it's a reservation casino and we aren't talking Vegas level security but surely they have decent camera equipment and would have been able to determine if James was there or not.

 

[JRW]

According to the Dryden interview, Fitzgerald stated he didn't know if James had been at the casino or not. (as of Nov 9th) I still don't understand that statement because casino surveillance should have been able to determine that pretty quickly. I understand it's a reservation casino and we aren't talking Vegas level security but surely they have decent camera equipment and would have been able to determine if James was there or not.

I agree, we have a small local casino and they know who you are to put you in for your points.. as well as if you go to a different table etc... you are always on a camera

 

[bellyup]

I agree, we have a small local casino and they know who you are to put you in for your points.. as well as if you go to a different table etc... you are always on a camera

There's a lot about this case that just isn't making any sense at this point. With all due respect, I think Barron County LE is in over their heads and needs to start asking for assistance from national organizations and other available resources.
AND/OR have a public relations officer who knows how to handle questions from the media and public in a manner that protects the integrity of the case but doesn't make it seem like they are dropping the ball.

At the point of that interview (25 days after the crime) whether James was in the casino or not should have been clearly determined and the answer in that interview should have been a clear "yes he was" or "no he wasn't" unless it was absolutely imperative to the investigation.

 

[andreww]

According to the Dryden interview, Fitzgerald stated he didn't know if James had been at the casino or not. (as of Nov 9th) I still don't understand that statement because casino surveillance should have been able to determine that pretty quickly. I understand it's a reservation casino and we aren't talking Vegas level security but surely they have decent camera equipment and would have been able to determine if James was there or not.

I remember that statement and found it quite odd. We'd been lead to believe that James was at work that day. You'd think that they would have had a pretty good idea of how he had spent the day by November 9th. So why not just say it? Could James have gone to the Casino after work and won big, then lead the killers to his home? Of course you'd assume the money would be in his wallet, so there would be a empty of missing wallet. And why would they take Jayme?

 

[andreww]

I agree, we have a small local casino and they know who you are to put you in for your points.. as well as if you go to a different table etc... you are always on a camera

I wouldn't consider it to be a small casino.

 

[bellyup]

I remember that statement and found it quite odd. We'd been lead to believe that James was at work that day. You'd think that they would have had a pretty good idea of how he had spent the day by November 9th. So why not just say it? Could James have gone to the Casino after work and won big, then lead the killers to his home? Of course you'd assume the money would be in his wallet, so there would be a empty of missing wallet. And why would they take Jayme?

IMO (speculation only) that the casino and gambling has absolutely nothing to do with this case. I don't think Fitzgerald said he didn't know if James was there or not as a way to protect actual pertinent evidence.

My gut feeling is that Fitzgerald is answering nearly everything with "I don't know" (even when he does know) because he doesn't know how to handle the public relations AND also protect the integrity of a case of this magnitude. He's scared to say the wrong thing and slip up.

Honestly, he has my sympathy in that regard but at some point it's time to realize you need assistance either in the investigation itself (especially if you really don't know if James was at the casino or not) or in the way you are handling media, the public and the release or non release of information.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

From the story at the link.



BBM. Now that I find to be odd.

First of all they probably had to serve several warrants. Those take time.

Then each cell/internet provider must sort out the information requested. M
A cell phone tower ping record is very different. And if the warrant specifies all cell phones pinging in a certain area in a certain time frame, to can bet your sweet bippy the providers will take time to disclose each cell record. Providers like to avoid lawsuits. There is commonly an expert in the information request in the event the provider/customer/expert is called on to testify.

All of that is sent away say to Quantico where analyzed by the very best.

After it’s returned to Barron County thevinformation is analyzed.

Then every bit of info is treated as evidenc and the arduous job becomes leads which have to investigate each. There are hundreds of man hours to accomplish a thorough investigation

 

[bizzle2]

There's a lot about this case that just isn't making any sense at this point. With all due respect, I think Barron County LE is in over their heads and needs to start asking for assistance from national organizations and other available resources.
AND/OR have a public relations officer who knows how to handle questions from the media and public in a manner that protects the integrity of the case but doesn't make it seem like they are dropping the ball.

At the point of that interview (25 days after the crime) whether James was in the casino or not should have been clearly determined and the answer in that interview should have been a clear "yes he was" or "no he wasn't" unless it was absolutely imperative to the investigation.

With the casino I think he's saying he doesn't know because they had no reason to check there. It might just mean that none of his friends/family have mentioned that he goes there, and they have no evidence that he ever did, so they haven't checked. I mean, there is a Burger King 14 miles away in Rice Lake, why not ask if he was there? They probably wouldn't check if they had no reason to.

I get why the casino has come up -- because casino security was mentioned in the call log. But I'm of the opinion that it was either so they could check any security tapes that may have been facing the road, or because casino security is the tribal police and they were basically just checking in with a neighboring jurisdiction to make them aware of a serious crime that occurred nearby.

My guess is that he was at work and that was verified by his employer, so they hadn't checked the casino because they had no need to.

 

[Mistermagoo]

First of all they probably had to serve several warrants. Those take time.

Then each cell/internet provider must sort out the information requested. M
A cell phone tower ping record is very different. And if the warrant specifies all cell phones pinging in a certain area in a certain time frame, to can bet your sweet bippy the providers will take time to disclose each cell record. Providers like to avoid lawsuits. There is commonly an expert in the information request in the event the provider/customer/expert is called on to testify.

All of that is sent away say to Quantico where analyzed by the very best.

After it’s returned to Barron County thevinformation is analyzed.

Then every bit of info is treated as evidenc and the arduous job becomes leads which have to investigate each. There are hundreds of man hours to accomplish a thorough investigation

I am still hoping that they are not saying some stuff because they are afraid that the perp(s) would think they are on to them and there would be a greater chance of them disposing of Jayme. With that being said, There is just so much more info that to me would not hamper the situation if they let the public know. I mean, it's not a secret that there is an Amber alert. The perp knows that there are people searching for Jayme nationwide. The smallest little thing can trigger a persons memory, however, the longer they wait to reveal things, the harder it is to trigger someones memory.
Edit: I quoted the wrong quote. was responding to post above this about LE

 

[Moonracer]

Jayme Closs: Barron raises symbol of hope as investigators' frustration mounts

No drugs, no boyfriend or contact with someone online, could be trafficking, we don't know, no longer looking for vehicles. We know nothing. We have nothing.

I've never ever ever in 100's of cases followed seen a case with so little information in a double homicide and kidnapping. This is getting maddening. I have many thoughts right now, but I'm going to avoid a time out. :X

<modsnip - off topic generalized discussion of LE>

Factoid:
Out of 54,868 homicides in 55 cities over the past decade, 50 percent did not result in an arrest.

Well, 50% were, 50% weren't solved. Over a decade. I don't like those odds.

Just look at our own WS cold cases!

I do think some crimes are unsolvable unless someone confesses or someone miraculously finds proof hidden in their home or writings. But 50%? Too high. Criminals are not that careful.

WHERE IS JAYME???

Source: Media, WaPo
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/unsolved-homicide-database/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6b3dbc465414

 

[bellyup]

With the casino I think he's saying he doesn't know because they had no reason to check there. It might just mean that none of his friends/family have mentioned that he goes there, and they have no evidence that he ever did, so they haven't checked. I mean, there is a Burger King 14 miles away in Rice Lake, why not ask if he was there? They probably wouldn't check if they had no reason to.

When you are looking for a motive in a double homocide and kidnapping ; relationships, sex, drugs (including alcohol) and money are always your first suspects.

Casinos have at least two if not three of those things. Plus an added known criminal element.

That right there is reason to check the casino BY DEFAULT. You have rule out that he either won or owed people money. You have to check out there there was no suspicious activity from a possible perp there. If that wasn’t high on the list of things to check out near immediately, we have bigger issues than public relations.