AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[JRW]

So if someone broke into your house, shot and killed two family members, and told you to come with them, you'd fight them? I think you'd do whatever you thought might help you to survive the situation.

honestly i feel like i would freeze and possibly go into meltdown mode unable to move...but i dont know what i would do for certain.. but ive seen people in extremely dangerous situations become hysterical and unable to cooperate with anyone thereby making their situation worse...im not saying she should have fought them but noone knows how they will act in a fight or flight situation... ive seen someone in shock scream uncontrolably and walk directly into oncoming traffic before...my point is just that every angle needs thought of... and if she was being uncontrolable she could have been tazered or knocked unconsious and carried to the vehicle.

 

[MommaK43]

I know exactly what you mean. I'm in the deep south, as well. The glass was not cracked that you could tell in the photo that I saw, especially not in the way of that tempered glass way that I think you mean. I think if you go back to one of the page 1's of the threads, you might be able to see one of those pictures.

Yes u know the glass I mean. Where from? Hair line cracks can be hard to tell tho, especially from a distance.

 

[MommaK43]

honestly i feel like i would freeze and possibly go into meltdown mode unable to move...but i dont know what i would do for certain.. but ive seen people in extremely dangerous situations become hysterical and unable to cooperate with anyone thereby making their situation worse...im not saying she should have fought them but noone knows how they will act in a fight or flight situation... ive seen someone in shock scream uncontrolably and walk directly into oncoming traffic before...my point is just that every angle needs thought of... and if she was being uncontrolable she could have been tazered or knocked unconsious and carried to the vehicle.

Every instance depends on the individual. I’ve been threatened before and didn’t freeze up....fight or flight kicked in. Yes I’m older and have been thru hell but who’s to say a child wouldn’t do the same? My child went after her own father when she saw him hitting me, at 8 yrs old.

 

[JnRyan]

One thing I do not understand since dad owned firearms, why not grab one prior to going to the door if there was a disturbance? I had my crazy neighbor bang on my door at 2am and the first thing I did was grab the pistol off my nightstand. Had someone trying to break in at 1am, grabbed the shot gun and aimed for the door with finger on the trigger.

I have difficulty with that as well. However, we don't know what the father owned. He may have not had any handguns. He likely had a shotgun if he did any bird hunting. Just speculating, but his guns could have been in a locked gun cabinet in the foyer and that where he was when he was shot. Outside of that or a similar scenario, I am baffled by the fact he was unarmed and killed not far from the door.

 

[SharonNeedles]

If there were three, that is most definitely a planned act as you suggest. In your theory, what do you speculate as motive?
Thank you for expanding my thinking.

The objective to me is clear, this was to be a brutal murder. I can only speculate a motive, but the odds-on favorite would certainly be drug related. Meth is big money and people who somehow threaten the flow of that money can and do get killed. It might not even be James, Denise or Jayme - it could just as easily be a message to somebody else.

I know there’s a lot of resistance here to thinking it’s drug related, but there’s no denying that meth manufacturing and distribution has a huge presence in Barron County. When you’re in a snake pit and something bites you it’s probably a snake.

 

[MommaK43]

I have difficulty with that as well. However, we don't know what the father owned. He may have not any handguns. He likely had a shotgun if he did any bird hunting. Just speculating, but his guns could have been in a locked gun cabinet in the foyer and that where he was when he was shot. Outside of that or a similar scenario, I am baffled by the fact he was unarmed and killed not far from the door.

Then again I am me and my first instinct is to protect. Shotguns are the perfect home defense. I use to keep mine locked up but since my child is older and knows how to use them, not so much these days. There are times I’m not home and she needs to be able to defend herself. She learned to shoot at 12....with proficiency

 

[MommaK43]

The objective to me is clear, this was to be a brutal murder. I can only speculate a motive, but the odds-on favorite would certainly be drug related. Meth is big money and people who somehow threaten the flow of that money can and do get killed. It might not even be James, Denise or Jayme - it could just as easily be a message to somebody else.

I know there’s a lot of resistance here to thinking it’s drug related, but there’s no denying that meth manufacturing and distribution has a huge presence in Barron County. When you’re in a snake pit and something bites you it’s probably a snake.

There’s a huge meth thing where I live as well. I’ve had that gut feeling as well or something financially. This is too clean, too precise, too well executed for it being “random”. People are saying they are a cookie cutter family, there’s always more than what’s perceived, been there!

 

[MommaK43]

Tbh, the best way to look at a case like this is start at the beginning with what you know, in this case very little. That’s why I asked about the door first. There are ways to get a shoe imprint if the door was kicked in. Question to all of y’all...if u heard something at 1am at ur door...what would u do? This is a collective effort so please chime in

 

[Quill]

Yes u know the glass I mean. Where from? Hair line cracks can be hard to tell tho, especially from a distance.

Really great photos,though, and not from a distance.

Yes u know the glass I mean. Where from? Hair line cracks can be hard to tell tho, especially from a distance.

Does anyone have the link to the glass door photos? All I could find was a video of the house with displaced wooden door sitting to the side of the interior. I was looking for the one where the team was loading the glass door into the truck.

 

[JRW]

Every instance depends on the individual. I’ve been threatened before and didn’t freeze up....fight or flight kicked in. Yes I’m older and have been thru hell but who’s to say a child wouldn’t do the same? My child went after her own father when she saw him hitting me, at 8 yrs old.

 

[JnRyan]

For the record and a little about me since I’m a newbie...single mom, 43, 17 yr old daughter, cj degree and Investigate for a living. Back ground in forensics but it’s been a minute, gun owner bc of my current job. Any questions, ask please

Good to have you here. You may be a newbie to this site, but it doesn't sound like you're a newbie to investigations and that adds a different perspective. I am an auditor with only minimal forensic auditing experience. And that is white collar crime, not murder.

 

[MommaK43]

This? That’s either really dirty glass or cracked.

 

[JRW]

Every instance depends on the individual. I’ve been threatened before and didn’t freeze up....fight or flight kicked in. Yes I’m older and have been thru hell but who’s to say a child wouldn’t do the same? My child went after her own father when she saw him hitting me, at 8 yrs old.

i completely agree..my point is simply that noone knows what Jayme did...i think people are starting to set their minds on a scenereo that is comfortable to them and do not want to look at every possible angle even if it is a small possibility... noone knows what they will do...i have never been confronted with a gunman who just killed my family but at the age of 20 and 5'1 120 lbs (yes i know thats more than Jayme) i dragged a full grown man out of my car and kicked his face in.. ( no he did not have a gun..he was curled up in my backseat hiding in my car as i left work at 2 am) .. i literally went blank and freaked out as soon as i looked back and found him in my car... people do not know what they will do...

 

[MommaK43]

Good to have you here. You may be a newbie to this site, but it doesn't sound like you're a newbie to investigations and that adds a different perspective. I am an auditor with only minimal forensic auditing experience. And that is white collar crime, not murder.

Thank you. Wish I could do what I really want but with a kiddo graduating in a yr and a half, I needed something less criminal, so I thought lol. I want to get my masters but that’s on hold for now.

 

[Quill]

This?

Yes, that is one of them. There are others that are from a different angle.

 

[JRW]

This? That’s either really dirty glass or cracked.

i noticed how foggy the glass looked as well i wondered if it was fingerprinting dust? not sure what that looks like is that a possibility?

 

[Quill]

i completely agree..my point is simply that noone knows what Jayme did...i think people are starting to set their minds on a scenereo that is comfortable to them and do not want to look at every possible angle even if it is a small possibility... noone knows what they will do...i have never been confronted with a gunman who just killed my family but at the age of 20 and 5'1 120 lbs (yes i know thats more than Jayme) i dragged a full grown man out of my car and kicked his face in.. ( no he did not have a gun..he was curled up in my backseat hiding in my car as i left work at 2 am) .. i literally went blank and freaked out as soon as i looked back and found him in my car... people do not know what they will do...

I completely agree with this. I know I am way late on it, but I just finished listening to the Dirty John podcast. Who would have ever thought that a meek, soft spoken girl would fight back the way she did? But fight she did and like a lioness.

 

[MommaK43]

i completely agree..my point is simply that noone knows what Jayme did...i think people are starting to set their minds on a scenereo that is comfortable to them and do not want to look at every possible angle even if it is a small possibility... noone knows what they will do...i have never been confronted with a gunman who just killed my family but at the age of 20 and 5'1 120 lbs (yes i know thats more than Jayme) i dragged a full grown man out of my car and kicked his face in.. ( no he did not have a gun..he was curled up in my backseat hiding in my car as i left work at 2 am) .. i literally went blank and freaked out as soon as i looked back and found him in my car... people do not know what they will do...

Ha I’m 43, 5,1, 110 on a good day and took out my 6’4 300 lb ex husband. “Tiny but mighty” as my daughter says

 

[JnRyan]

Tbh, the best way to look at a case like this is start at the beginning with what you know, in this case very little. That’s why I asked about the door first. There are ways to get a shoe imprint if the door was kicked in. Question to all of y’all...if u heard something at 1am at ur door...what would u do? This is a collective effort so please chime in

Every set of experiences is different. Our guns, including handguns, were not locked up when we grew up. Our parents had a loaded handgun readily available. Dad was a very light sleeper and combat veteran. The discussion came up on more than one occasion of what we should do if someone tried to break-in and we were home alone - forego the handgun and grab one of the shotguns. And don't concern yourself as to where the buckshot was as birdshot from a shotgun inside 5 yards would be very effective.

To this day, I have ready access to a loaded gun when at home and my first action is to pick it up if I here something.

 

[GordianKnot]

LE knows more than they are telling, guaranteed! They can’t/won’t show all their cards. They can and will mislead at times in hopes someone gets too comfortable and messes up.

BBM: IMO, this is absolutely the strategy LE is employing right now...which is why we're struggling to make sense of it all here on WS. JMO.