AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[Seahorseladydi]

There have been hints of the neighbors account being incorrect since the beginning:

1. LE never mentioned the neighbors as witnesses before, never mentioned anyone heard 12:31 gunshots at all. It never came up in a press conference.

2. The sheriff said "If it does not come from this podium, it is not credible information" while the neighbors went on their media rounds and made money from the gossip rags like Radar and Daily Mail.

3. The sheriff asked for witnesses who were on Hwy 8 from 12:30 to 1:30 the night of the crime. This time frame did not account for shots heard at 12:31-- as they would assumingly want witnesses for a good amount of time before the first shots were fired that could have seen cars driving towards the house.

4. The sheriff specifically said on the Dryden radio interview the perp or perps were in the house for a very short time and "it's not as if they were in the house for 25 minutes" (my paraphrase).

5. There was evidence of more than 2 gunshots at the scene. LEOs reported "Multiple rounds spent" before finding Denise's body. We saw the chair that looked like it had been shot or had a bullet in it.

6. The neighbors story constantly changed -- They were asleep, then they were not asleep just in bed, then they they went outside at one point but didn't hear or see anything. First the second shot was louder, then the second shot was more muffled. At one point they said 2:31 instead of 12:31. It was a big gun or it was a hand gun, it might have been a car backfiring. They didn't know the family had kids but they saw Jayme getting off the school bus every day. Etc, Etc. The contradictions were all over the place-- the only thing that stayed the same was 2 gunshots and that doesn't match what we know about the scene.

I'm glad Fitzgerald finally came out and said the neighbors' story is unsubstantiated. MOO.

Thank you!!!!

This post is amazing at helping explain why Sheriff Fitz feels the way he does and has FINALLY changed his statements about the gunshots. Thank you very much for taking the time to post this. It is very much appreciated.

 

[human]

Possible, but I don't think the door had a window. If he saw lights he would likely have looked out the window.

The door had a window

 

[MesquiteO21]

BBM. But plenty of people have that knowledge without being hunters or in the military or police. I know how to fire a handgun but I don't have any of those backgrounds. I learned for my own personal protection. Criminals might learn to fire guns well for the purpose of carrying out their crimes. I find it offensive to imply that hunters, people in the military or police officers might enjoy killing people. None of the hunters I know do it because they are blood thirsty and enjoy killing things. Most hunters I know do it to bring home meat for their family and as a bonding sport they can enjoy with others. Hunting requires a lot of patience and sitting and waiting and usually you are far away from the animal when you shoot. It's not at all the same thing as kicking in a door, shooting two people at close range and kidnapping a child. JMO.

whoa, that is not what i was trying to say AT ALL. Could perp not be a hunter, police, or military? absolutely, 100%. My point is: it is harder to kill someone instantly than people realize. An "amateur" can, yes, for sure. But it's just not as cut and dry as people think "oh well just shoot in the head or heart and they're done." I'll need to go find sources again, but if I'm not mistaken a very large percentage of gunshot deaths are caused from loss of blood. Meaning, the person takes a few minutes (or more than a few) to die by bleeding out. Killing instantly requires severing just the right artery at just the right angle. You know how some people have said "doctors told me if the bullet was just an inch over i would've died, or i would've been paralyzed"? it's that sort of precision. So IMO, my gut feeling, is that killing TWO people instantly takes some sort of skill and knowledge/experience with firearms.

And I could totally be wrong, i will fully admit that. Maybe they don't have a lot of experience and just happened to kill them both instantly. But I think it's important to analyze what kind of person or person this could be. I definitely do not want to disparage a whole group of people at all, that's never my intention. But, i think it's also important for people to realize that if, say, the FBI puts out a profile that they think it's a white man, they aren't saying all white men love doing this. If perp does turn out to be a hunter, police, or military, it's the same thing. One bad seed among many.

 

[Mistermagoo]

Is there a picture of the front of the house before the crime? Probably not....and if so I'm sure LE has compared it. The disheveled blinds bother me. Were they always a mess? Bent and uneven...

Things I noticed about blinds a few weeks back

Some photos
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpj3olLW0AA8qcU.jpg
Blinds up on left window

https://s3-ca-central-1.amazonaws.c.../11/2018/10/15152619/IMG_20181015_1141581.jpg
Blinds down on left window. Also doors are all open on James' truck

 

[Mistermagoo]

Is there a picture of the front of the house before the crime? Probably not....and if so I'm sure LE has compared it. The disheveled blinds bother me. Were they always a mess? Bent and uneven...

Pic of before crime. Don't know how old it is but it is a before and after of a paint job they had
https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/8o3LjaitEhpA6x0UluXSdA/o.jpg

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is there a picture of the front of the house before the crime? Probably not....and if so I'm sure LE has compared it. The disheveled blinds bother me. Were they always a mess? Bent and uneven...

Yes, there is a picture posted just a page or so back taken before the crime and the front door def had a window and the blinds have always been wonky looking. Some have speculated the dog maybe liked to jump on the furniture to look out???

 

[girlhasnoname]

Pic of before crime. Don't know how old it is but it is a before and after of a paint job they had
https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/8o3LjaitEhpA6x0UluXSdA/o.jpg

We must have both been typing at the same time LOL

 

[Gardener1850]

whoa, that is not what i was trying to say AT ALL. Could perp not be a hunter, police, or military? absolutely, 100%. My point is: it is harder to kill someone instantly than people realize. An "amateur" can, yes, for sure. But it's just not as cut and dry as people think "oh well just shoot in the head or heart and they're done." I'll need to go find sources again, but if I'm not mistaken a very large percentage of gunshot deaths are caused from loss of blood. Meaning, the person takes a few minutes (or more than a few) to die by bleeding out. Killing instantly requires severing just the right artery at just the right angle. You know how some people have said "doctors told me if the bullet was just an inch over i would've died, or i would've been paralyzed"? it's that sort of precision. So IMO, my gut feeling, is that killing TWO people instantly takes some sort of skill and knowledge/experience with firearms.

And I could totally be wrong, i will fully admit that. Maybe they don't have a lot of experience and just happened to kill them both instantly. But I think it's important to analyze what kind of person or person this could be. I definitely do not want to disparage a whole group of people at all, that's never my intention. But, i think it's also important for people to realize that if, say, the FBI puts out a profile that they think it's a white man, they aren't saying all white men love doing this. If perp does turn out to be a hunter, police, or military, it's the same thing. One bad seed among many.

Thank you for clarifying what you mean. I must have missed where it was said James and Denise "died instantly". Last I saw we didn't even know where on the body they were shot nor how many times each was shot. I have never tried to kill anyone myself (and hope I never have to). But I don't think it would be that difficult to shoot someone multiple times at close range and hit center mass with most of those shots. Especially if you are ambushing them and they have no time to react. We don't know how many shots were fired but evidence from the scene (the chair for example) and Fitzgerald saying the neighbor's statement is unsubstantiated seems to point to more than two shots were fired. It doesn't take an expert marksman to shot someone standing a few feet away when they can empty their weapon. JMO.

 

[Writestuff]

Blinds could be messed up from the dog. My sister has the same issue from her black lab always barking at squirrels and such through the blinds.

 

[human]

Does anyone have the picture of Jayme standing next to a wooden hutch?

 

[Gardener1850]

Pic of before crime. Don't know how old it is but it is a before and after of a paint job they had
https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/8o3LjaitEhpA6x0UluXSdA/o.jpg

The photo is from 2016.

 

[Mistermagoo]

The photo is from 2016.

ty

 

[Mistermagoo]

We must have both been typing at the same time LOL

ha

 

[daisy6441]

Where would the casings be?

On the floor.

 

[AdorableOrca96]

Thread #28. Where is Jayme?? I hope and pray she is safe and that the killer (or killers) of her parents are brought to justice, as well as whoever took her.

 

[Irmese]

thread 25 entry #1109 is a screen shot of the entryway with the cabinet and the snowman on the floor. I think his body had to fall to the right, into the open part of the house because the door would have swung open to the left. The hinges are on the left of the frame and the knob/lock is on the right (going by the splintered wood of the door frame) The living room would have probably been to the left because of the kind of window.

That's what I thought about the door, too. I thought I had saved a pic of the house before the crime and it showed the door hinges on the left and knob on the right. I can't find the pic, but someone posted it here.

 

[LemonBubble]

Could someone tell me if the 911 call was released to the public? If not will it be?

 

[Irmese]

I think the cabinet placement is really strange. Has anyone ever seen such a placement right by a front door? And the snowmen right in a walking pathway. Makes no sense.

If James fell, how did he not fall on any of those items? Where would the door fall? In or out of the house?

Wouldn’t the door fall into the house?

Where were the bullet casings? In or outside?

Could LE have moved some of these things?

If the carpet was removed, they would have to move things.

Does anyone know when this door pic was taken in relationship to the carpet being removed?

I saw pictures of carpet removal, but that could have been bedroom carpet

It does look odd, but it could partly be the camera angle that makes it look that close to the door. I think if there is a wall there, most people would put a mirror or some piece of wall art there. It could be a half wall in front of the staircase going to the basement/lower level as suggested by other sleuthers. The house is very small and this cabinet could be placed there to control foot traffic through the entrance, maybe the door can only be approached from one side. JMO.

 

[Andreee]

Hey Everyone,

I know it's tough to keep things moving with the discussion when there is nothing new but please stay on topic. Do not discuss other
cases on Jayme's thread.

Thank you,
Tricia[/QUOTE

That was probably me. I am trying to keep the rules in mind. I guess when I think they may relate somehow to this case it is a theory like the car in the water awhile back. So in that case, it cannot be discussed? I just want to be clear. Thank you and my apologies.

And me! I was making comparisons.

 

[1987]

whoa, that is not what i was trying to say AT ALL. Could perp not be a hunter, police, or military? absolutely, 100%. My point is: it is harder to kill someone instantly than people realize. An "amateur" can, yes, for sure. But it's just not as cut and dry as people think "oh well just shoot in the head or heart and they're done." I'll need to go find sources again, but if I'm not mistaken a very large percentage of gunshot deaths are caused from loss of blood. Meaning, the person takes a few minutes (or more than a few) to die by bleeding out. Killing instantly requires severing just the right artery at just the right angle. You know how some people have said "doctors told me if the bullet was just an inch over i would've died, or i would've been paralyzed"? it's that sort of precision. So IMO, my gut feeling, is that killing TWO people instantly takes some sort of skill and knowledge/experience with firearms.

And I could totally be wrong, i will fully admit that. Maybe they don't have a lot of experience and just happened to kill them both instantly. But I think it's important to analyze what kind of person or person this could be. I definitely do not want to disparage a whole group of people at all, that's never my intention. But, i think it's also important for people to realize that if, say, the FBI puts out a profile that they think it's a white man, they aren't saying all white men love doing this. If perp does turn out to be a hunter, police, or military, it's the same thing. One bad seed among many.

the instant death just points to a shotgun blast to me. I don't want to be too graphic, but will say I had a family member shot in the head with a shotgun and they couldn't even be embalmed because of the extent of damage done. even if the aorta was hit there would be a short time before death, a ruptured aorta from a car crash might live long enough to make it to the hospital. a severed brain stem would cause instant loss of awareness. IMO the human body will try to stay alive when it really shouldn't be able to. the blood circulating would already be oxygenated and I would think that would have to be exhausted before death firmly takes place. that's why a ambulance would have been called unless it was VERY clear there was no hope at all IMO. I do not think this is a simple gunshot like is seen on tv. there had to be massive damage for no attempt at life saving intervention to even be tried. if they tried and called it after 3-5 min that would be one thing. absent massive damage LE had no way to know if they were firmly expired or if their hearts had just quit.