AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

[oceanblueeyes]

yea, I'm not ruling anything our completely until we know more. But each time I see someone ask, "why kill the parents..." I think of the Groene family and so many others.

Ugh...the Keddie cabinui murders just popped in my head.

I wasn't really aware of how many cases there are where those inside of their home were murdered or severely wounded left for dead and the perp kidnapped one or more before leaving with the victim/s. Most who were later found murdered...even years later when someone found the remains by happenstance.

Watching ID for years now has made me much more aware it happens far more than I ever knew. In many of the cases none of the victims knew the suspects.

It quite frightening and chilling how someone can target victims and none of them ever even knew they were going to have horrible things happened to them and their families done by those they didn't even know.

How can anyone protect themselves when they don't even know the people or that they are plotting to do grave harm or murder or kidnap them?

Jmo

 

[IceIce9]

I'm trying to picture someone leaving work dressed in anti-turkey gear covered in gross bird fixins.

"Hi Honey, I'm home!"

I believe that people who wear protective clothing or covering at work put it on after they arrive at work and then take it off and dispose of it at work before they go home.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I believe that people who wear protective clothing or covering at work put it on after they arrive at work and then take it off and dispose of it at work before they go home.

What's the fun in that?

 

[Lillymac]

Google has found me a good summary

I suppose when they say no evidence, there must be no evidence other than that belongs to the Closs family.

This case has indeed floored the forensics. Some documentary in the future will have to analyse it! I hope it won't be one on cold cases

I was thinking along the lines of a clean up. But, the time line they've given us wouldn't support that. Unless the time line is off. Only concrete info we have is after the fact and the horrible results.
I'm not sure it will become a cold case, but I don't think it's going to be the answer we are expecting. I think there maybe much more involved than what has been released only because it's been so quiet on everyone's part. Such a huge response at the beginning and for nearly two months nothing. . No one can stay quiet this long!!

 

[Lillymac]

I am sure with over 200 investigators on the case at one time they have left no stone unturned.

Even if they wore gloves or protective booties over their hands and feet if they stepped in blood or had it on their glove it would make patterns of both the glove and booties.

In many cases I've kept up with the experts were able to match the patterns of gloves and can even identify the manufacturer of the glove and where it was sold. I would think they could do the same with different kinds of bootie covers.

Heck there is nothing generic it seems. Billions of plain plastic trash bags and lawn bags are made every year. I never see any identifying markers on any we use but time and time again in murder trials the expert is able to identify the exact bag found. They know who made it...when or where this particular bag was sold and when purchased.

Unfortunately this isnt the only case by far..even those who were bloody crime scenes..where the perpetrator left nothing of themselves behind that would help investigators identify the murderers or kidnappers.

Many of those cases also remain unsolved due to lack of forensic evidence.

Imo

And...correct me if I'm wrong, but any forensic evidence that is found has to be compared to someone to identify it. So, if the fingerprints or footprints, blood isn't on file or in some database what good is it? Out of 2400 tips there is nothing...unbelievable!!

 

[peanut1200]

MOO

I’ve been following since day one of this tragedy. What follows is absolutely my own opinion.

2 perpetrators involved

Perp 1 knocks on front door.

Perp 2 either goes through garage, or waits by garage door.

James answers front door. He knows Perp 1. He’s been expecting a visit, because he owes a debt. The perps are coming to collect.

James tells Perp 1 he cannot pay. Perp 1 tells him that he is taking Jayme for payment.

James tries to shut door. Perp 1 breaks door and shoots James because James can identify him.

Denise is in the living room. Perp 1 tells her to open garage door.

Denise goes down hallway to open door. Calls 911 drops phone. Goes back to living room, pleading with Perp 1 not to take Jayme.

Perp 1 tells her to sit.

When Denise hears someone coming through garage and taking Jayme, she starts to get up.

Perp 1 starts shooting. One bullet hits chair Denise was sitting in. All of this occurs within 5 feet of entrance.

Perp 2 takes Jayme (alive, although maybe knocked out) and leaves through the garage.

Jayme is sold to pay debt.

This is the only scenario that even begins to make sense to me. I resisted the “sold into slavery” idea for a long time, because it seems too much like a Lifetime movie. However, the more I read and the more I go over possible scenarios in my head, this is the only one that makes sense to me. It was a professional, well thought out, intentional crime.

I’m sure the professional “sleuthers” will poke holes in my theory – I just wanted to share

MOO

 

[GlowingShadow]

MOO

I’ve been following since day one of this tragedy. What follows is absolutely my own opinion.

2 perpetrators involved

Perp 1 knocks on front door.

Perp 2 either goes through garage, or waits by garage door.

James answers front door. He knows Perp 1. He’s been expecting a visit, because he owes a debt. The perps are coming to collect.

James tells Perp 1 he cannot pay. Perp 1 tells him that he is taking Jayme for payment.

James tries to shut door. Perp 1 breaks door and shoots James because James can identify him.

Denise is in the living room. Perp 1 tells her to open garage door.

Denise goes down hallway to open door. Calls 911 drops phone. Goes back to living room, pleading with Perp 1 not to take Jayme.

Perp 1 tells her to sit.

When Denise hears someone coming through garage and taking Jayme, she starts to get up.

Perp 1 starts shooting. One bullet hits chair Denise was sitting in. All of this occurs within 5 feet of entrance.

Perp 2 takes Jayme (alive, although maybe knocked out) and leaves through the garage.

Jayme is sold to pay debt.

This is the only scenario that even begins to make sense to me. I resisted the “sold into slavery” idea for a long time, because it seems too much like a Lifetime movie. However, the more I read and the more I go over possible scenarios in my head, this is the only one that makes sense to me. It was a professional, well thought out, intentional crime.

I’m sure the professional “sleuthers” will poke holes in my theory – I just wanted to share

MOO

This scenario doesn't seem too plausible to me because of the kidnapping. If you kill the parents it just doesn't really matter what you're doing with their kid anymore from that point of view, since hurting dead people, blackmailing dead people lacks of any logic. If it was some kind of money issue, then what's with the silence after that? As far as I know not one other family member or relative was blackmailed to pay or Jayme will die. The silence is what makes this case more of an online mess related crime to me than something money or grudge related.
If you want to blackmail someone with their child there is no reason to kill them.

 

[MingyMoo]

MOO

I’ve been following since day one of this tragedy. What follows is absolutely my own opinion.

2 perpetrators involved

Perp 1 knocks on front door.

Perp 2 either goes through garage, or waits by garage door.

James answers front door. He knows Perp 1. He’s been expecting a visit, because he owes a debt. The perps are coming to collect.

James tells Perp 1 he cannot pay. Perp 1 tells him that he is taking Jayme for payment.

James tries to shut door. Perp 1 breaks door and shoots James because James can identify him.

Denise is in the living room. Perp 1 tells her to open garage door.

Denise goes down hallway to open door. Calls 911 drops phone. Goes back to living room, pleading with Perp 1 not to take Jayme.

Perp 1 tells her to sit.

When Denise hears someone coming through garage and taking Jayme, she starts to get up.

Perp 1 starts shooting. One bullet hits chair Denise was sitting in. All of this occurs within 5 feet of entrance.

Perp 2 takes Jayme (alive, although maybe knocked out) and leaves through the garage.

Jayme is sold to pay debt.

This is the only scenario that even begins to make sense to me. I resisted the “sold into slavery” idea for a long time, because it seems too much like a Lifetime movie. However, the more I read and the more I go over possible scenarios in my head, this is the only one that makes sense to me. It was a professional, well thought out, intentional crime.

I’m sure the professional “sleuthers” will poke holes in my theory – I just wanted to share

MOO

Blimey, I hadn't even thought of that scenario, the only thing I would say is in the above scenario is 3 perps would fit better. One waiting in a car/driver. Which means it would be a team of people used to working together if you can call it that.

As far as I am concerned the only clue the perpetrator/s have left is that there is no clue which in itself lends itself to a certain amount of knowledge and experience in this sort of thing.

I appreciated reading your theory as it gives a different angle. It may be right it may be wrong but it is interesting.

MM

 

[peanut1200]

This scenario doesn't seem too plausible to me because of the kidnapping. If you kill the parents it just doesn't really matter what you're doing with their kid anymore from that point of view, since hurting dead people, blackmailing dead people lacks of any logic. If it was some kind of money issue, then what's with the silence after that? As far as I know not one other family member or relative was blackmailed to pay or Jayme will die. The silence is what makes this case more of an online mess related crime to me than something money or grudge related.
If you want to blackmail someone with their child there is no reason to kill them.

I think the perps figured they would never be able to recover the debt from the Closs or Naiberg families, so they took Jayme as payment, sold her, and got their money. Why would they hold on to her? MOO

 

[GlowingShadow]

Any news about the guy who broke into their home after the crime? Was he completely cleared? I won't name him because it might be against the forum's rules. Stealing Jayme's clothes and his answers to LE were, let's just say really weird.

 

[daisy6441]

I think the perps figured they would never be able to recover the debt from the Closs or Naiberg families, so they took Jayme as payment, sold her, and got their money. Why would they hold on to her? MOO

Where do you go to sell a kid?

 

[Jax49]

Any news about the guy who broke into their home after the crime? Was he completely cleared? I won't name him because it might be against the forum's rules. Stealing Jayme's clothes and his answers to LE were, let's just say really weird.

Cleared per LE.

UPDATE: Man arrested for breaking into Closs home, stealing Jayme's clothing

Chris Fitzgerald says Jaenke-Annis has been cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of Jayme.

 

[MingyMoo]

This scenario doesn't seem too plausible to me because of the kidnapping. If you kill the parents it just doesn't really matter what you're doing with their kid anymore from that point of view, since hurting dead people, blackmailing dead people lacks of any logic. If it was some kind of money issue, then what's with the silence after that? As far as I know not one other family member or relative was blackmailed to pay or Jayme will die. The silence is what makes this case more of an online mess related crime to me than something money or grudge related.
If you want to blackmail someone with their child there is no reason to kill them.

I think it may be plausible as the perpetrator/s haven't got time for blackmail and don't appear to leave a trail of any description in such a short period of time. In the above scenario whoever it is doesn't care, is cold, quick, evil, no feelings and doesn't give a flying **** about the devastation they have left behind or if this scenario did happen the future of a young teenager.

It is only a theory from Peanut but it is as good as anything else with the info we have.

MM

 

[CocoChanel]

Any news about the guy who broke into their home after the crime? Was he completely cleared? I won't name him because it might be against the forum's rules. Stealing Jayme's clothes and his answers to LE were, let's just say really weird.

Ok to name him - Kyle Jaenke-Annis, 32 - as he has been named in MSM and IS related to this case because he inserted himself when he chose to burglarize the home of the murder victims on the day of their funeral. Ugh.

Police: Man broke into Jayme Closs' home and stole her clothing

 

[peanut1200]

Where do you go to sell a kid?

I have no idea, but human trafficking in the United States and abroad is a serious problem. Someone is doing the buying and selling. SESTA and FOSTA were signed into law this year to address some of the issues here in the states.

 

[peanut1200]

It is only a theory from Peanut but it is as good as anything else with the info we have.

MM

Exactly...just a theory. No more no less. I hesitated to even post anything, since I usually just lurk (since 2009!). I just thought I would put something out there, since no other scenarios are making sense either. MOO

 

[Trino]

I wasn't really aware of how many cases there are where those inside of their home were murdered or severely wounded left for dead and the perp kidnapped one or more before leaving with the victim/s. Most who were later found murdered...even years later when someone found the remains by happenstance.

Watching ID for years now has made me much more aware it happens far more than I ever knew. In many of the cases none of the victims knew the suspects.

It quite frightening and chilling how someone can target victims and none of them ever even knew they were going to have horrible things happened to them and their families done by those they didn't even know.

How can anyone protect themselves when they don't even know the people or that they are plotting to do grave harm or murder or kidnap them?

Jmo

Should we suspect everyone as someone who could do us harm? Obviously, as this case shows, your home isn't safe. Malls aren't safe... trails and sidewalks... camping... buses... fairs, amusement parks... motels... Frightening world, and law enforcement is after-the-fact. LE cannot protect you, only help after the crime.

 

[MingyMoo]

So in Peanuts theory. A paid team to do a job to recuperate a debt on behalf of a 3rd party.

The person/s have no emotional attachment to the Adults no hate absolutely no feelings.
The debt needs to be paid
They have a job to do so they do it
The only way it can be done is by taking the only thing of any value, that can be sold for numerous reasons.

Crickey it must have been a flipping big debt alternatively a huge warning to anyone else that could be in the same situation.

MM

 

[MingyMoo]

Should we suspect everyone as someone who could do us harm? Obviously, as this case shows, your home isn't safe. Malls aren't safe... trails and sidewalks... camping... buses... fairs, amusement parks... motels... Frightening world, and law enforcement is after-the-fact. LE cannot protect you, only help after the crime.

YEP S*** happens when you least expect it and you are left wondering why my family! You question your neighbours, acquaintances and friends and left with still asking why. You look for possible motives and can't find any. You are left wondering why! You become hyper-vigilant, your lifestyle changes and then you start to get on the nerves of those nearest and dearest. That causes arguments. The devastation of a home intrusion where members of your family have been injured leaves you wondering WHY. You look at your home and think WTF nothing worth anything to anyone and you wonder WHY.

 

[Scrapper18]

I believe that people who wear protective clothing or covering at work put it on after they arrive at work and then take it off and dispose of it at work before they go home.

True, but I’m sure they still bring home traces from the protective clothing.