AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

[desertstorm]

I am just thinking if it is something only killer would know if it was maybe out of production, limited production, not imported but made and used else where so uncommon here. I know LE knows, that much is not in question.

 

[desertstorm]

Some unique firearms made today. One would be a Smith and Wesson Governor handgun which can fire a .410 shot gun shell or a .45 Colt casing and you can use a 250 gr. bullet which is twice the size of a 9mm bullet. 410 shot shell much smaller then a 12 or 20 but you can still fire triple 000 buck which is 3-5 pellets and is very lethal and the firearm holds 6 rounds. Good for 10-20 feet range. Not many people have a use for this firearm. So LE could be referring to something like this
JMO

 

[Rubiconbob]

Some unique firearms made today. One would be a Smith and Wesson Governor handgun which can fire a .410 shot gun shell or a .45 Colt casing and you can use a 250 gr. bullet which is twice the size of a 9mm bullet. 410 shot shell much smaller then a 12 or 20 but you can still fire triple 000 buck which is 3-5 pellets and is very lethal and the firearm holds 6 rounds. Good for 10-20 feet range. Not many people have a use for this firearm. So LE could be referring to something like this
JMO

Wasn’t thinking handgun but u may be correct...definitely wouldn’t need help or a lot strength...loud...and cushion for error.

 

[Trino]

Is there something in particular that has been posted here about this case that you’re concerned about this person (or persons) knowing?

Not really.

Every person does not access all sites. WS members tie things together. There are also definite examples of non-news contributions such as the house plan and google maps. Members have also spent time doing research on various topics that contribute to a better understanding of individuals connected to the case. They offer theories that cause some members to say, "Ah, yes. I never thought of that."

Killers/abductors have been known to attend searches, funerals, etc. I was simply thinking accessing websites/WS would - by the way people were talking - give the criminal an idea of how the investigation was going.

 

[Rosiebones]

Who put up the video cams at the home? Did LE absorb that cost and if they did what or who were they expecting? Is that common procedure for LE? Then, why were they taken down after the panty thief was caught, why not leave them up? He couldn't have been the reason because they wouldn't have know he was going to do that. Were they connected to LE, is that why they responded so quickly and caught him in the act? Or did the family do it and if they did, why. It wasn't as if there was a lot of valuable items to be protected.

 

[Trino]

I sure hope you are right about the solving...... I too feel that one or both of the parents were the main targets, with Jayme also being a target of sexual dishonor/revenge and then death, because of the the parents past disrespect/dishonor, in the perp's mind. The 911 call delayed that happening inside the house.......MOO at this time.

I would like to know why Mark Furman immediately stated he thought Denise was the target. He was with the LA police department for 20 years - lots of experience.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

My problem with type of weapon being very important is this: If this is me, the gun is not coming out of my closest. I’m getting a throw away and doing exactly that. No ties back to me. Buying a stolen gun is more based on what’s available and not so much on preference.

Good call on the S&W Governor. I hadn’t thought about that. Adding to it though, it also shoots .45 ACP with half moon clips. If one of those was found, they would know it was a S&W and not a Taurus Judge. It doesn’t shoot ACP. Also, both of them do have rifled barrels. So, even if he was shooting buck shot, the wad would have rifling marks and could be tied to the gun.

However, they are also both revolvers. With as fast as this went down, I can’t really see anything other than an auto loader being used unless it was a top break with auto ejecters. Like a WWI era Webley. And even then, why reload at the scene? Same goes for a sawed off double barrel shoty. You don’t miss at that range. If you do, your target is long gone while fumbling around with the next shells.

Until I hear how many shots were fired for sure, I’m assuming something that [ejects an empty before it chambers the next]was used. Still straddling the fence on handgun or shotgun.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

We agree to disagree. This is not rage this is not personal. No overkill no torture just shot both parents quickly and took Jayne. I suspect parents if left alive would know who they are and/or no witnesses to see him take Jayme. I think local guy did not want to risk being seen taking her in other words no chance of witnesses the way he decided to do it. Btw which seemed to work out well for perp.

I think it was payment for a overdue debt.

 

[desertstorm]

This has always bothered me. Maybe Mark Furhman knew someone at the FBI who explained that they feel Denise was the target because of the wounds she received and was later told not to say anything additional about it. Possible perp was obsessed with Jayme and Denise found out and had a confrontation with this person. I believe this person would be a loner, does not talk to many people, maybe in early 20's. I also feel that LE knows who this person is but does not have enough to arrest this person. I also believe the family might know who this person is. LE knew for a long time who killed the Rhoden Family of 8, but it took 2 years to make an arrest.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, chili67,

LE Response was quick, on point, and appropriate. Not only in the first few minutes, but in the subsequent hours also.

Your post reminds me of some of the earlier reports that were written late in October.
Remember the police needed to ask the nearby Dairy Farm if they could park on their property while they investigated?

Well, now, ...... flashback to the accident in the summer, which happened less than a half -mile to the Closs' home.

It makes me wonder if anyone involved with the aftermath of that head-on collision "had" to use their driveway? And they {possibly the future perp(s)} were observing the Closs family a little too closely.

I'm worried about the possibility that any of the following listed below, ..... availed themselves of parking in the Closs driveway and then used that proximity to watch Jayme, or at least chat up one of the parents, using their kindness against them eventually. Who would have good reason to come to the site of an accident? Many people, sadly.

a) insurance adjustors
b) tow-truck personnel
c) photographers
d) reporters
e) supervisor at the trucking company
f) etc.,..etc. (the list is endless)
​

It really creeps me out how many people could have had access to planning this double homicide, and kidnapping, from summertime, ..... ..onward.

Praying for Jayme's safe return during this holiday season.
Praying for any kind of positive movement in this case.

______
And a message for All WS-ers: Keep up the good work. (And yes, it is sad and frustrating at times.)
You are a thoughtful, patient, soulful, cool group of highly collaborative, extremely knowledgeable people.
....Many Blessings to you and yours. Have a joyful, warm, and Healthy New Year!

Thank you.

I have also wondered if they needed the services of some outsider before this happened like maybe a plumber or someone who had to come out to give them a quote on something that needed repairs. Sometimes that is all it takes.

A perfect example is the kidnapping...rape and murder of 6 year old Isa Celis by a stranger pedophile predator..CC.

Her predator had come to the Celis home a couple of times pretending to be very interested in purchasing one of the Celis vehicles. What he really was doing all along was picking out his next intended little victim and getting familiar with the layout of their home and property. In his possession they found photos of the Celis home.

Then later after pretending he was interested in their car he went back in the dark of night going through Isabel's bedroom window to kidnap her. His intended target all along.

While Google maps can be very helpful for benign reasons to many people they also allow predators to view the entire property front and back before they even enter. Much can be learned just by viewing the outside of a home to basically know the layout of the home inside.

Imo

 

[Deerrun]

This has always bothered me. Maybe Mark Furhman knew someone at the FBI who explained that they feel Denise was the target because of the wounds she received and was later told not to say anything additional about it. Possible perp was obsessed with Jayme and Denise found out and had a confrontation with this person. I believe this person would be a loner, does not talk to many people, maybe in early 20's. I also feel that LE knows who this person is but does not have enough to arrest this person. I also believe the family might know who this person is. LE knew for a long time who killed the Rhoden Family of 8, but it took 2 years to make an arrest.

I don't believe Denise was the target but I do think they have a POI but no actual evidence to back it up. Jmo

 

[Quill]

In Wisconsin, it's definitely called shining. It's also only legal if you do NOT have a firearm in your possession or in your vehicle. It should also be noted that Oct. 15 is not in season, not to mention that the Closs property and all the woods surrounding it are private property. In other words, if the shots the Smrekars heard were 'hunters', they were moronic poachers.

In my area its called spotlighting and also headlighting. When I was a kid, someone killed my pony while they were poaching at night with lights on my dad's land.

 

[Jax49]

In my area its called spotlighting and also headlighting. When I was a kid, someone killed my pony while they were poaching at night with lights on my dad's land.

Another reason to hate the practice, no matter what it is called.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think it was payment for a overdue debt.

While there has been no public knowledge of any sort of debt owed (legit or nefarious), this theory lines up. So does a work grievance, even one from years ago.

Opinion and speculation only

 

[Trino]

Season's Greetings Merry Christmas Happy Holidays
And Best Wishes for 2019

 

[rosesfromangels]

Season's Greetings Merry Christmas Happy Holidays
And Best Wishes for 2019

Thank you for your lovely greeting to one and all.
It makes me pause with immense gratitude, and also makes me think of the many threads on WS, - Jayme the topic of this one - and how difficult this season is for her family.

Let us pray that through the tragedy and chaos, that somehow Jayme can return to the surviving members of her family. Life for Jayme will never be the same, but perhaps her tragedy can serve to help others in some way. It's hard to see that right now, but I choose to hold on to this hope and belief.

Where are you dear Jayme?

 

[Deerrun]

Happy Holidays to all. A special Holiday wish for all who are suffering with the pain of a lost loved one. May you find Peace.

 

[human]

I do not think the gun may be special at all. They may merely be able to eliminate because of all of the different weapon ideas people have given here as to handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. It may not be unusal at all.

 

[JnRyan]

Absolutely as although predator hunting is common it is not that common. Hunters do travel quite a ways to hunt them but if you are hunting on private land that isn't yours the owner would most certainly know. But there is no doubt in my mind the shots the Smreakers heard were the ones that killed James and most likely Denise.I know the time 12:38 has been quoted but I still think she misread the clock and it was 12:58 as the difference between 12:38 and 12:58 on a digital clock is 1 vertical segment. They are an older couple and had just got home from being out so quite possibly had a few drinks, anything. She just glanced at the clock and didn't think any more about it until the next morning when LE came to question them. But I'm certain the shots she heard were the fatal shots fired and she just misread the time.

I've wondered this as well. With a clock supposedly being 7 minutes fast, 12:58 would be 12:51 and much closer to that 4 minute timeline the sheriff talks about.

 

[JnRyan]

I do not think the gun may be special at all. They may merely be able to eliminate because of all of the different weapon ideas people have given here as to handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. It may not be unusal at all.

That is what I am thinking. If there is false confession or tip that says the gun was a S&W .40 and the sheriff knows it was something else like a 9mm, .45 or .357 Sig, then the sheriff knows they are likely dealing with a false lead. It is not necessarily a rare or uncommon gun/caliber, but rather what is specific to this crime only.