AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

[Rubiconbob]

What exactly does your first sentence mean? Sorry - I don’t understand what you’re saying there...

If 3 people go to sleep ... all 3 cell phones don’t move or go into rest mode...

If those cell phones pop on at 12/54. Good chance perp at door at that time ...

Doubtful Closs say it’s 12:31 someone breaking in... I’ll grab my phone in 20 minutes and see what’s up then.

 

[LongIslandDweller]

Sure. Why not? The question I would have is if the shots that the neighbor heard were the missed ones at James, why did it take him 20 minutes to run back into the house and tell Denise to call 911?

I don't know. 20 minutes being hunted and trying not to get shot. Or 15 minutes of that and 5 minutes trying to get his family to safety before perp at the door.

 

[The Dude]

Because when you work backward from the time police arrived to the time the 911 call was placed, the neighbors timeline doesn't remotely fit. Something has led LE to believe the perp was in the home for only 4 minutes and never moved more than 5 feet inside. He didn't just stand there for 20 minutes like that, as the neighbors timeline would suggest. That, and other statements made by the neighbors regarding the Closs family that do not match with what others know of them, pretty much suggests these two neighbors don't know what they are talking about.

So then what are we to believe about these people (the Smrekars)? Did they imagine the shots? Did they hear different, unrelated shots? What were those shots? Are they insane? Liars? I guess what I’m saying is that there should be a reasonable explanation for their account of that night, but there isn’t.

 

[1987]

So then what are we to believe about these people (the Smrekars)? Did they imagine the shots? Did they hear different, unrelated shots? What were those shots? Are they insane? Liars? I guess what I’m saying is that there should be a reasonable explanation for their account of that night, but there isn’t.

I think they easily could have just not remembered the time very accurately. at the moment of hearing the shots they had no reason to make absolutely sure of the time and write it down. if their clock was off a little as stated and what they remembered was off a little more come morning they were likely shocked at what had happened when told and said what they thought they remembered.

 

[bizzle2]

So then what are we to believe about these people (the Smrekars)? Did they imagine the shots? Did they hear different, unrelated shots? What were those shots? Are they insane? Liars? I guess what I’m saying is that there should be a reasonable explanation for their account of that night, but there isn’t.

The simple explanation is that they remembered the time incorrectly.

They weren't interviewed until the next day. Doesn't surprise me at all that they wouldn't remember things perfectly.

 

[Rubiconbob]

So then what are we to believe about these people (the Smrekars)? Did they imagine the shots? Did they hear different, unrelated shots? What were those shots? Are they insane? Liars? I guess what I’m saying is that there should be a reasonable explanation for their account of that night, but there isn’t.

I think there probably nice folks that got time wrong...glanced at clock and were asleep half hour later and slept through
nite while 12 cop cars conducted a murder investigation..

They said probably someone scaring bears ... you got a dog. .. u should confirm bear or no bear !!

Always a chance there right on time ... earlier shots and murder shots... really nice honest people can misread a clock..

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Praying for Jayme.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

I’m wayyyy behind on this case so this may have been discussed, but read several threads ago where people were perplexed by JC ‘s family pleading with HER directly to come home and they missed her.
IMO they did this based on Jaycee Dugard’s book, Jaycee states in her book she didn’t try to escape because she felt like she was unwanted at home. JMO that JC’s family is making sure she knows they want to take her in and that they love her .

 

[Mandrew]

The shots could have easily been 20 minutes earlier and one of them, the mother I assume, was not dead. Either she played dead or she was so weak it took her 15 minutes to crawl to the phone.

I know of a woman when I was in high school, that lived after she was raped, the man shot her and left her for dead. If she didn't play dead, he would've undoubtedly shot her again. But she lived and he was arrested and convicted.

Unless the cops were cruising in the area, I still don't buy they could've got there in four minutes.

I have lived in NYC and Chicago and you can't get cops there that quick, but if they were right in the area by chance, then I could agree with it.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

The shots could have easily been 20 minutes earlier and one of them, the mother I assume, was not dead. Either she played dead or she was so weak it took her 15 minutes to crawl to the phone.

I know of a woman when I was in high school, that lived after she was raped, the man shot her and left her for dead. If she didn't play dead, he would've undoubtedly shot her again. But she lived and he was arrested and convicted.

Unless the cops were cruising in the area, I still don't buy they could've got there in four minutes.

I have lived in NYC and Chicago and you can't get cops there that quick, but if they were right in the area by chance, then I could agree with it.

But the phone the 911 call was found on wasn't right next to either the mom or dad. LE said it was closer to the mom, but it was some distance from her, and speculated it may have been kicked. Hard for me to imagine mom/dad made the call while playing dead w/ the killer right there.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

You may not be able to have LE there that quick in NYC or Chicago, but where I live, I bet my local PD would have halved the four minutes. At 1:00am, he has nothing to do, is no more than a mile away and there are no obstacles to slow him down between us.

At first, reading about this case, I was surprised it took them four minutes to get there. Figured he must have been on the exact wrong side of town when the call came in. Then found out the specifics.

 

[chili367]

The shots could have easily been 20 minutes earlier and one of them, the mother I assume, was not dead. Either she played dead or she was so weak it took her 15 minutes to crawl to the phone.

I know of a woman when I was in high school, that lived after she was raped, the man shot her and left her for dead. If she didn't play dead, he would've undoubtedly shot her again. But she lived and he was arrested and convicted.

Unless the cops were cruising in the area, I still don't buy they could've got there in four minutes.

I have lived in NYC and Chicago and you can't get cops there that quick, but if they were right in the area by chance, then I could agree with it.

But have you lived in a small town?

The dispatcher sent 3 units. All marked dispatched at the same time(computer-00:56:01) and signaled onscene at the same time(their mobiles or verbal to dispatch-01:00:09). So they likely started at the same place (the station perhaps) and got there at the same time. Given Google maps shows this trip takes 5 minutes, this is not a reach.

Barron city was dispatched at 01:04:00, marked himself enroute at 01:04:11 and arrived at 01:06:45. The BC station is about as far as the sheriff's office -- this unit could have been closer or just gone faster since a body had been found.

Dispatch generally knows who is closest -- these response times are not unusual.

As I said a few threads back, the actual response to the 911 hangup is about the only normal part of this case. I do not understand why people are questioning this.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Am I allowed to ask if it has been completely ruled out that Jayme was involved in any way with what happened to her parents or herself. Is she considered endangered because she is in the company of the perps? Could they be people she knows? Please delete if this goes against any rules. It’s been such a long time now if she was kidnapped for the purpose of harming her I fear she is no longer alive. Pray she is found safely.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I use the Occam's Razor rule.

It is much more logical to me at this time of night all 3 victims were in bed most likely asleep. Jayme's phone was on charge. Imo she did this every night before going to bed.

Then out of the blue they hear a loud disturbance at their front door. Imo the man of the house (Jim) would approach the door first. Denise would be following close behind.

Imo one of them told Jayme do not come out for any reason until we tell you.

Jim approaches the door and is immediately shot and died instantly. Suspect sees Denise in the same general area and shoots her immediately killing her.

Imo Denise grabbed her phone from the night table before going to door with Jim. She calls 911 but is shot and killed before dispatcher could answer.

Suspect would know 911 had been called when dispatcher tried to call back.

He quickly makes Jayme come out from where she was hiding. She is yelling for someone to help her and that is what is being overheard on the enchanced 911 call.

The odds of a captive victim being alive after other family members have been murdered is almost nil. At the moment I can only think of one or 2 cases and one is when Joe Duncan brought Shasta back to her hometown after murdering her mom..her mom's boyfriend..her 13 year old brother inside of their home and while the 2 were kidnapped he murdered her 11 year old brother...Dylan.

The odds of survival goes way down when murders of family members have already taken place before the suspect leaves with the captive child or children.

The suspect knows Jayme can tell what happened and can ID who did it. She would be a liability if he held her captive and whoever this is knows that. This is why so many eye witnesss are murdered including those who have been kidnapped.

As much as I want to believe Jayme is alive and one day will be saved..I am also a realist so sadly I do believe Jayme was most likely murdered shortly after she was taken.

Imo

 

[Megnut]

Can't seem to link it, but the fatal accident that occurred in the summer near the Closs home, I think, provides an explanation for why the head of the Closs household, months later, would come to his own door, unarmed and even unalarmed. Horses, zebras. That accident occurred at 4:30 IN THE MORNING. A fair chance Closs' heard it, or the aftermath. I wonder if the other neighbors did. Anyway, my point, and OMO, if the horror that happened in Barron that ill fated started with a knock, it would be NORMAL to assume a car accident survivor at the door and NOT a homicidal kidnapper.

Second, it was stated that the panty thief found the patio door unlocked. Is it possible that door NEVER locked? I had a door like that, and it didn't. I never worried about it because my front door wasn't locked either. Pure speculation... but is it possible there was a knock at the front door, James went to check, realized quickly it was bad, called to Denise to call 911, which she started, then as he was trying to shoulder his front door shut and lock trouble out, he called her to get to the patio door to lock it, at which time a SECOND suspect breached that door? Hard to imagine taking the time to shut the patio door after all that. ... maybe Jayme closed the door, in total shock, thinking she didn't want her dog to run away.... my theory is imperfect but it does seem to be in keeping with what we know about this good, hard-working family. The dad was ready to help someone, then protect his family. The mom tried to protect the daughter, and the daughter tried to protect her dog. PURE SPECULATION.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

Chilli, I live in a small town (pop.1500)and leave for work at 2am. I rarely see, maybe one day out of ten, where our officer of duty is at the station. I think more likely, they were all sitting at the same gas station talking because there was nothing going on that night. I see that pretty regular. Also, our PD does a door check once a night, where he walks Main Street and makes sure all the business’ doors got locked, but there is always a County Sheriff in town in his car when the city does that. So that the only law enforcement isn’t on foot and two blocks from his car... So, I can see a plausible scenario where the timeline makes sense.

Something else that just struck me, I’ve seen several theories (including some of mine) that puts James at the front door with his shoulder against it trying to keep someone out. He doesn’t look like a small guy, he’s not 5ft, 100lbs. Do you have any idea how much harder that door is to kick in with him behind it and his feet set??

Edit: I guess what I’m getting at is I’m on board with him being shot through the door, then it was kicked in. I don’t see how it’s kicked in and then he comes to the door, and I don’t think it’s possible to kick it in with his shoulder on it and then he’s shot.

 

[chili367]

Chilli, I live in a small town (pop.1500)and leave for work at 2am. I rarely see, maybe one day out of ten, where our officer of duty is at the station. I think more likely, they were all sitting at the same gas station talking because there was nothing going on that night. I see that pretty regular. Also, our PD does a door check once a night, where he walks Main Street and makes sure all the business’ doors got locked, but there is always a County Sheriff in town in his car when the city does that. So that the only law enforcement isn’t on foot and two blocks from his car... So, I can see a plausible scenario where the timeline makes sense.

Sounds about right. I live within 5 miles of county seat. While during peak times a response could be slow due to units being busy, something like this close to town would get a similar response at 1am Monday morning. That's a very quiet time for LE in most places.

The response to this call was very good, I think.

 

[DancingMuse]

Sounds about right. I live within 5 miles of county seat. While during peak times a response could be slow due to units being busy, something like this close to town would get a similar response at 1am Monday morning. That's a very quiet time for LE in most places.

The response to this call was very good, I think.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, chili67,

LE Response was quick, on point, and appropriate. Not only in the first few minutes, but in the subsequent hours also.

Your post reminds me of some of the earlier reports that were written late in October.
Remember the police needed to ask the nearby Dairy Farm if they could park on their property while they investigated?

Well, now, ...... flashback to the accident in the summer, which happened less than a half -mile to the Closs' home.

It makes me wonder if anyone involved with the aftermath of that head-on collision "had" to use their driveway? And they {possibly the future perp(s)} were observing the Closs family a little too closely.

I'm worried about the possibility that any of the following listed below, ..... availed themselves of parking in the Closs driveway and then used that proximity to watch Jayme, or at least chat up one of the parents, using their kindness against them eventually. Who would have good reason to come to the site of an accident? Many people, sadly.

a) insurance adjustors
b) tow-truck personnel
c) photographers
d) reporters
e) supervisor at the trucking company
f) etc.,..etc. (the list is endless)
​

It really creeps me out how many people could have had access to planning this double homicide, and kidnapping, from summertime, ..... ..onward.

Praying for Jayme's safe return during this holiday season.
Praying for any kind of positive movement in this case.

______
And a message for All WS-ers: Keep up the good work. (And yes, it is sad and frustrating at times.)
You are a thoughtful, patient, soulful, cool group of highly collaborative, extremely knowledgeable people.
....Many Blessings to you and yours. Have a joyful, warm, and Healthy New Year!

 

[chili367]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, chili67,

LE Response was quick, on point, and appropriate. Not only in the first few minutes, but in the subsequent hours also.

Your post reminds me of some of the earlier reports that were written late in October.
Remember the police needed to ask the nearby Dairy Farm if they could park on their property while they investigated?

Well, now, ...... flashback to the accident in the summer, which happened less than a half -mile to the Closs' home.

It makes me wonder if anyone involved with the aftermath of that head-on collision "had" to use their driveway? And they {possibly the future perp(s)} were observing the Closs family a little too closely.

I'm worried about the possibility that any of the following listed below, ..... availed themselves of parking in the Closs driveway and then used that proximity to watch Jayme, or at least chat up one of the parents, using their kindness against them eventually. Who would have good reason to come to the site of an accident? Many people, sadly.

a) insurance adjustors
b) tow-truck personnel
c) photographers
d) reporters
e) supervisor at the trucking company
f) etc.,..etc. (the list is endless)
​

It really creeps me out how many people could have had access to planning this double homicide, and kidnapping, from summertime, ..... ..onward.!

This is an excellent point. Also, good find on the accident, poster whose name I forget at this moment.

(And Happy Holidays to you!)

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

MOO

I’ve been following since day one of this tragedy. What follows is absolutely my own opinion.

2 perpetrators involved

Perp 1 knocks on front door.

Perp 2 either goes through garage, or waits by garage door.

James answers front door. He knows Perp 1. He’s been expecting a visit, because he owes a debt. The perps are coming to collect.

James tells Perp 1 he cannot pay. Perp 1 tells him that he is taking Jayme for payment.

James tries to shut door. Perp 1 breaks door and shoots James because James can identify him.

Denise is in the living room. Perp 1 tells her to open garage door.

Denise goes down hallway to open door. Calls 911 drops phone. Goes back to living room, pleading with Perp 1 not to take Jayme.

Perp 1 tells her to sit.

When Denise hears someone coming through garage and taking Jayme, she starts to get up.

Perp 1 starts shooting. One bullet hits chair Denise was sitting in. All of this occurs within 5 feet of entrance.

Perp 2 takes Jayme (alive, although maybe knocked out) and leaves through the garage.

Jayme is sold to pay debt.

This is the only scenario that even begins to make sense to me. I resisted the “sold into slavery” idea for a long time, because it seems too much like a Lifetime movie. However, the more I read and the more I go over possible scenarios in my head, this is the only one that makes sense to me. It was a professional, well thought out, intentional crime.

I’m sure the professional “sleuthers” will poke holes in my theory – I just wanted to share

MOO

At first, I thought this idea was absolutely Lifetime movie, as you said Peanut. I generally feel like when it starts sounding too much like a movie plot, our theories have gone off the rails, because usually real life is a lot simpler. But. I have a good friend, who owes BIG money to illegal gambling debt. We're talking the cost of a house, big. I had no idea, but more importantly, nor did his live in partner. He told me, because he was hoping I could help him somehow, but until he told me, I never would have guessed.

My first reaction was anger and fear, not sympathy. Why? Because when someone owes that kind of a debt, killing them doesn't get the person owed their money. Harming their family or friends sure sends a message though. I made him tell his partner, because I believed he had put her at major risk.

Some thing of note. He said that while his debt was owed to Individual A, Individual A was a front man for Group X. And his contacts with Individual A were NEVER via text, but rather phone calls with a few other low level associates he had never met, which never crossed the line into illegal subjects. Sort of like "Oh, Uncle Al said to tell you hello, and he hopes to see you before the holidays, please give your kids a hug and a kiss from us." When you read between the lines, the demand and threat are there, but someone listening would not be alarmed. Checking his phone records would reveal nothing interesting at first glance. Not hundreds of calls from one number, not incriminating texts.

Thinking about this made me consider the possibility that your theory shouldn't be tossed just because it sounds like a movie plot. Even if James or Denise had no debt, it doesn't mean a family member or friend doesn't. And it also is possible that no one close to this person has any idea. My very long .02