AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[ilovechili]

Wasn't there a picture of the pink leash outside..?

Yes, I am just wondering what the date of those pictures are. They were circulated more recently, not back in the beginning to my knowledge. There is snow on the ground, there was not at the time of the other pictures nearer to the time of this crime.

 

[ilovechili]

The 5 feet thing has never made sense to me. Not that I don't think it's possible that was as far as they came into the house, but that you could say that as if it were fact. I never understood the assumption that somehow just walking anywhere leaves some sort of footprints. That makes no sense to me. It was dry out and hadn't rained in a while. As long as you don't step in blood, or if you were an accomplice that entered from the patio or garage, I don't see why there would be magical dry footprints left anywhere.

And if there were dirt or leaf bits... so what? What does that actually tell us? Besides, it doesn't appear to me as if this was necessarily the cleanest home in town, ready for a Better Homes & Gardens cover. My point being, it's not at all far-fetched that the perp and/or an accomplice ventured further into that house. I dunno... just rambling out loud...

It seems like more of an excuse to explain no evidence to convince a perp they have nothing. I agree, I do not see how they could know for sure. Unless the perp tracked blood within the five feet and they found no more farther in or some such thing. Since basically nothing said from day one has been a "for sure" 100 percent, I take this not to be either.

 

[ilovechili]

a lot here seem to think the father was in great fit shape. I don't see it. I see a over weight middle age man. not intending that as a negative toward him. a persons body changes with age. weight is all I can see the father having in his favor though for holding a door closed.

edit to add. even a strong strap or chain can withstand much more at a steady tension or pressure than it can a sudden burst.

I don't consider him in great shape although we have few pics of him and are any recent? I do however allow for the adrenaline that comes with fear or survival instinct or protection mode and wondered about the strength and age the person on the other side would most likely be. Of course, we also have the fact that exterior doors (the main door usually anyhow) open inward so that too I guess would be easier pushing in wouldn't it...?

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Yes, I am just wondering what the date of those pictures are. They were circulated more recently, not back in the beginning to my knowledge. There is snow on the ground, there was not at the time of the other pictures nearer to the time of this crime.

You make a good point about how did LE keep Molly the dog from destroying the scene...maybe they put her in one of the patrol cars..maybe?

 

[ilovechili]

You make a good point about how did LE keep Molly the dog from destroying the scene...maybe they put her in one of the patrol cars..maybe?

Maybe. Or perhaps a kennel if the family had one? Not sure.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

We know Jim's guns were account for allegedly. Do we know however he may not have used one to shoot in the air to send someone off of his property to show he means it, either a visitor who got out of line or who knows? He puts it back away, all is quiet and here comes the person back madder than a hornet and the door is kicked in, etc. This I believe would fit with the neighbor's account and the LE comments on timeline... Just rehashing thoughts which is pretty much what we do

*accounted*

Yep, I floated a theory similar to that awhile back. But in my theory, Jim yells at some people spotlighting (or shining, in Wrenny's vernacular) deer near his property - who had fired a couple shots in the woods - to get the hell out of there or he'd call the cops. And that maybe led to the violence.

 

[ilovechili]

Yep, I floated a theory similar to that awhile back. But in my theory, Jim yells at some people spotlighting (or shining, in Wrenny's vernacular) deer near his property - who had fired a couple shots in the woods - to get the hell out of there or he'd call the cops. And that maybe led to the violence.

That would work too. Just to argue, it is shining--shining deer. Not sure what the laws are on it anymore but we did it by car when I was a kid. My folks would take us and we would take a drive down rural isolated roads and dad would shine. It was legal, shooting them of course was not. That was our exciting weekend kind of activity--if all chores were done

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

That would work too. Just to argue, it is shining--shining deer. Not sure what the laws are on it anymore but we did it by car when I was a kid. My folks would take us and we would take a drive down rural isolated roads and dad would shine. It was legal, shooting them of course was not. That was our exciting weekend kind of activity--if all chores were done

Spotlighting and shining are interchangeable, as far as meaning goes. Usage seems to depend on the region.

 

[ilovechili]

Spotlighting and shining are interchangeable, as far as meaning goes. Usage seems to depend on the region.

I know but it is still shining In Wisconsin it would be shining. It is shining.

Just going on (in fun) as no new thoughts. Man, I do not want to see this stay cold or go even colder.

But back to your original point, in both my scenario and yours, the neighbor's account could fit in quite well.

 

[Queencitylaydee]

I listen to the gun shots I hear on the weekends behind my home..(armory is practically in my backyard) it's more of a pop..how can one determine the type of gun by sound only? Didn't the neighbors say it was a high powered gun?..TIA

 

[JnRyan]

It seems like more of an excuse to explain no evidence to convince a perp they have nothing. I agree, I do not see how they could know for sure. Unless the perp tracked blood within the five feet and they found no more farther in or some such thing. Since basically nothing said from day one has been a "for sure" 100 percent, I take this not to be either.

Or, since the sheriff stated they found no shoeprints, there was blood splatter the killer would have had to walk through and there were NO prints.

 

[ilovechili]

That works too. If that is the case though and he can't get past them without tracking, then Jayme coming to him can't get past them either and would have to walk through them. That would be so traumatizing on top of the trauma already experienced.

ETA: Not sure why it did not put the quote in but is in response to the above post from JnRyan

 

[The Dude]

Or, since the sheriff stated they found no shoeprints, there was blood splatter the killer would have had to walk through and there were NO prints.

I normally wouldn't mention something like this, but considering the genre of this forum, I wanted to point out a lingo clarification. The word is 'spatter', not splatter. Carry on.

 

[human]

There was a window in the door so the perp could see James.

There have been reports now that the door had bullet holes.

It was said that James died right away from his shot. Does that mean it was in a place where he could not live such as the heart or someplace in the head?

The first shot could possibly be not as loud as it hit the door. The second one went directly into James as the door was now open, James having fallen away from it?

If he had bullet wounds in either the head or heart, would there be a tremendous amount of blood making it impossible for the perp to walk through the area without stepping imto blood?

Could they know that the patio door was not used because it was locked from the inside?

Could there be Jayme’s prints through the blood leading outside?

It would depend on what kind of disturbance was outside. My husband usually gets up and looks out a window . I stay in bed.

Were Denise and James both up watching television?

That is late at night if they had to get up early in the morning.

Was Jayme sick so they were tending to her? They were all awake?

Otherwise, Jayme would be in bed on a school night. I am sure her school would start early.

If you heard a gunshot into your house, would you run out to see what it is?

 

[The Dude]

That works too. If that is the case though and he can't get past them without tracking, then Jayme coming to him can't get past them either and would have to walk through them. That would be so traumatizing on top of the trauma already experienced.

ETA: Not sure why it did not put the quote in but is in response to the above post from JnRyan

But remember that the front door isn't the only route in and out of that house. We also don't know if there was an accomplice.

 

[JnRyan]

That works too. If that is the case though and he can't get past them without tracking, then Jayme coming to him can't get past them either and would have to walk through them. That would be so traumatizing on top of the trauma already experienced.

ETA: Not sure why it did not put the quote in but is in response to the above post from JnRyan

And, IF that was the case, it may also explain why LE knew Jayme was in the house. Prints from bare feet or slippers too small to be either parent. Yeah, that's not easy to think about.

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Possibly perp (s) were already outside surrounding the home waiting in the dark or shadows for the right time to commit the crime

 

[ilovechili]

There was a window in the door so the perp could see James.

There have been reports now that the door had bullet holes.

It was said that James died right away from his shot. Does that mean it was in a place where he could not live such as the heart or someplace in the head?

The first shot could possibly be not as loud as it hit the door. The second one went directly into James as the door was now open, James having fallen away from it?

If he had bullet wounds in either the head or heart, would there be a tremendous amount of blood making it impossible for the perp to walk through the area without stepping imto blood?

Could they know that the patio door was not used because it was locked from the inside?

Could there be Jayme’s prints through the blood leading outside?

It would depend on what kind of disturbance was outside. My husband usually gets up and looks out a window . I stay in bed.

Were Denise and James both up watching television?

That is late at night if they had to get up early in the morning.

Was Jayme sick so they were tending to her? They were all awake?

Otherwise, Jayme would be in bed on a school night. I am sure her school would start early.

If you heard a gunshot into your house, would you run out to see what it is?

I can't say for sure but if I heard a gunshot in my home, and was asleep or in another room, unfortunately if I did not know where all of my loved ones in the home were for sure, I would probably run to see what it was and who it involved and become the next easy target. And perhaps that is what Denise did.

If I heard a door being kicked in and had any time to think, I would wake the to get up and run for another door or to hide most likely.

I tend to feel though they were up or at least one was and something had happened earlier and then someone or more than one returned. If it was someone they knew, they were hoping the incident would blow over and things would settle down, however, on their return, this is the reason 911 was managed to be called perhaps fairly quickly because while not expected, they quickly knew who and why from the previous blow-up and they knew it was not going to be good.

I change my theories and have several but today this one is leading.

*wake them to get up and tell them to run out another door and/or hide*

 

[The Dude]

There was a window in the door so the perp could see James.

There have been reports now that the door had bullet holes.

It was said that James died right away from his shot. Does that mean it was in a place where he could not live such as the heart or someplace in the head?

The first shot could possibly be not as loud as it hit the door. The second one went directly into James as the door was now open, James having fallen away from it?

If he had bullet wounds in either the head or heart, would there be a tremendous amount of blood making it impossible for the perp to walk through the area without stepping imto blood?

Could they know that the patio door was not used because it was locked from the inside?

Could there be Jayme’s prints through the blood leading outside?

It would depend on what kind of disturbance was outside. My husband usually gets up and looks out a window . I stay in bed.

Were Denise and James both up watching television?

That is late at night if they had to get up early in the morning.

Was Jayme sick so they were tending to her? They were all awake?

Otherwise, Jayme would be in bed on a school night. I am sure her school would start early.

If you heard a gunshot into your house, would you run out to see what it is?

Well, that's a lot of questions! I can't answer them, but maybe you could email Fitzgerald and ask him! I'd love to see THOSE answers.

 

[ilovechili]

And, IF that was the case, it may also explain why LE knew Jayme was in the house. Prints from bare feet or slippers too small to be either parent. Yeah, that's not easy to think about.

It would explain knowing she was there definitely. And I hope she was not barefoot for obvious reasons.