AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #32

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

Another question that comes to me is that the front door has a 36 inch inward opening arc, probably toward the left as pictures have shown. So wouldn't that be proof that James opened the door before being shot, if the police saw his feet in the doorway when they arrived? If he was shot through the door, then his feet would have been pushed aside for the perp to go in the 5 feet and wouldn't have been in the doorway for the first responder to report on.

My number one question, which doesn’t really matter what theory someone believes, is still the very first one I posted on this forum. If you believe that she did not go willingly, and take the four minutes/five feet as accurate, how did the perp get them all in the front room at 1:00am? They had to already be there and not alerted to him when his plan unfolded, there wasn’t time for anything else. Figure that out and if it’s targeted or random is easier, which makes the escape easier to figure on. My best answer, all those threads ago (and still is): perp kicks door open, starts yelling “fire”. Everyone in the house comes to him, just inside the door. Probably even letting Jayme go first. As soon as he has her, He pulls the gun and opens fire. JC goes down first, maybe DC is calling 911 to report the “fire”, when she is hit. Jayme is already out side when she cries for help, or maybe with a hand over her mouth...she is gone before operator even calls back. That scenario explains the most of what we know to me, but I have several issues with it too.

 

[bizzle2]

Has this been mentioned? That the dog found a tablet in the Closs home? This would mean that it was in an area that the original investigators did not find it, which would mean it was probably hidden. Interesting.

It's been mentioned here.

Tough to say whether or not finding it was important for the case. Lots of people have old tablets/computers/etc. that they store away when they get a new one. Could have been nothing, or it could have been something

 

[carbuff]

I have always been a bit thrown by casino was contacted quickly but no contacts in Barron for video (at least on the call log). I mean maybe they knew they passed no one but a person COULD have gotten into Barron and stopped, pulled off, turned, etc. All seem to feel it was called for its video but we truly do not know that or whether they had a reason to feel the perp(s) went west and, even if so, that they even would have went as far as Turtle Lake without turning off. There is also a gas station on 8 in Almena which also has a bank which I would assume has video, how good or what it covers I would be unsure of, but that would be the first area passed before Turtle Lake Casino... Maybe in later days, they accessed all video but just saying there are no entries about other places in the initial call log, and maybe they do not need to be entered--and just saying only the casino was. I am 50/50 on whether contact there was only about video and not for more than one reason...

Maybe they went to the casino to warn them that there could be an active shooter on the rampage, not to investigate anything?

 

[Rubiconbob]

I can agree with you on that point, but how did the perp, not more that a few feet inside the door, see the small phone or even know that a call had been placed and who the call went to if he never went past Jame's body at the doorway? Assuming James was 6 feet tall or over?

One scenario is denise calls before shootings.. or jayme calls.. thinking James is on front porch arguing with crazy person about anything... I don’t have money to give u for gas, or no you can’t come in and talk to jayme.. 911 called as people yelling. They think resolved...hangup... then before they can redial 911 perp starts the nightmare..

I think if u had cameras capture the whole thing we would all be wrong...

dead battery at 12:52 sounds about right..

 

[Rosiebones]

One scenario is denise calls before shootings.. or jayme calls.. thinking James is on front porch arguing with crazy person about anything... I don’t have money to give u for gas, or no you can’t come in and talk to jayme.. 911 called as people yelling. They think resolved...hangup... then before they can redial 911 perp starts the nightmare..

I think if u had cameras capture the whole thing we would all be wrong...

dead battery at 12:52 sounds about right..

A dead battery at 12:52 would probably mean that Denise had never put her phone on the recharger and had been using it right up to the crime. Maybe she had never gone to bed but was up in the kitchen etc.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I can agree with you on that point, but how did the perp, not more that a few feet inside the door, see the small phone or even know that a call had been placed and who the call went to if he never went past Jame's body at the doorway? Assuming James was 6 feet tall or over?
Even the police did not initially see Denise's body until they went in and walked around.

I think it's possible that they didn't even know a call was placed

 

[ilovechili]

No one would be arrested less than 3 months in if they did not have enough on them, it would not mean there is no POI, and the fact remains Jayme is still missing. It would be a game of weighing the risks. You try to arrest and/or charge too early without enough cause or evidence and it is dismissed, the perp now knows you are looking at him, and what about Jayme? You bring him in too many times, he may lawyer up and feel you are looking at him and there goes your chance for interrogation and perhaps so far freely given interviews of the perp, and what about Jayme? Worst case scenario, the case proceeds, there is enough, but still, where is Jayme?

They may know not one thing; they may know exactly whodunit and be near an arrest; and they may be somewhere in the middle of both of those things...

Just my thoughts today...

 

[Rosiebones]

I think it's possible that they didn't even know a call was placed

You may be right and they just happened to get out of there before LE arrived and it was simply that they had done what they had come to do and weren't particularly rushed, just very lucky in their timing.

 

[human]

I was thinking about the neighbors who heard the shots.
12:38 Seven minutes off because the Sheriff told them their clock was 7 mins off.

So that could make it 12:45. But the clock could have almost advanced to 12:39 so actually more like 12:46.

That could make it fit the timeline.

 

[Celt1997]

You may be right and they just happened to get out of there before LE arrived and it was simply that they had done what they had come to do and weren't particularly rushed, just very lucky in their timing.

I think the person, or people, responsible did a lot of things "right" (even if it was evil & wrong), and had a lot of things go their way after the fact (including having surveillance on the house blown by some local nutter) to help them out.

 

[human]

My number one question, which doesn’t really matter what theory someone believes, is still the very first one I posted on this forum. If you believe that she did not go willingly, and take the four minutes/five feet as accurate, how did the perp get them all in the front room at 1:00am? They had to already be there and not alerted to him when his plan unfolded, there wasn’t time for anything else. Figure that out and if it’s targeted or random is easier, which makes the escape easier to figure on. My best answer, all those threads ago (and still is): perp kicks door open, starts yelling “fire”. Everyone in the house comes to him, just inside the door. Probably even letting Jayme go first. As soon as he has her, He pulls the gun and opens fire. JC goes down first, maybe DC is calling 911 to report the “fire”, when she is hit. Jayme is already out side when she cries for help, or maybe with a hand over her mouth...she is gone before operator even calls back. That scenario explains the most of what we know to me, but I have several issues with it too.

It is a great question as to how they all were so close to the killer.

Jayme would not be up at 1:00 AM on a school night. What time does school start?

The only reason I can see is that maybe she is sick with the flu or something and is awake.

Otherwise, why would she be up?

It seems unusual that the parents might be up. I would guess they had day shifts being at Jennio so long.

Or maybe James liked the night shift. Sleep during the day and see his family when they came home?

 

[kkdj]

I think it's possible that they didn't even know a call was placed

I too think this is a possibility. They came for and did what they wanted. It didn't need to take anymore time. Denise and Jim were killed instantly and Jayme was taken with them. Why stick around?

 

[kkdj]

Do you think there will be a P/C because it's the anniversary date of 3 months or that they will name a POI?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have recently asked our grandson about these particular scent dogs since the sheriff's department where he is employed as a Sgt. has had them brought in only on certain cases where other agencies were assisting such as the FBI or the GBI.

He has told me what they mainly are used for is to see if laptops..cell phones...tablets.. hidden cameras etc are hidden inside of the walls.

However he said recently LE has used them for other purposes. The example he gave me is if they go into a home and basement and find storage boxes piled up in great numbers it is much more time effective to bring in this kind of dog that can scent the box or boxes out within minutes when it would have taken them many hours or even days/weeks to painstakingly go through each and every box to make sure they dont miss anything. This is only done in certain cases where they feel it needs expediency.

I asked him about the circumstances of this particular case and he said the investigators would want to locate any communication electronics since they knew they had a 13 year old missing child hoping it would reveal if the suspect had communicated electronically with any of the three victims.

I made him aware after almost three months it still remains unsolved.

He said based on his own experience that would mean the tablet found inside of the dwelling or any other electronic communication devices that were located belonging to the victims did not yield anything of value that would be helpful in the investigation.

He also said at some scenes he has gone to they had so much stored away it took them weeks to go through it all.

He said he has come to the determination that many homeowners seem to be pack rats with some even bordering on being horders. He said some of the living areas will be neat and organized but in other areas it's like many of them never have thrown anything away the entire time they have lived there.

He has seen this whether the occupants live in mobile homes all the way up to upper class homes.

He said it can make it much more difficult and can prolong the investigation at the crime scene itself when there is so much 'stuff' the detectives must carefully go through looking for any possible clues or potential evidence.

Imo I think more and more in the future we will see police agencies everywhere who try to have these kind of dogs within their own local police departments where they will be readily accessible minute one when needed.

Imoo

 

[human]

Do you think there will be a P/C because it's the anniversary date of 3 months or that they will name a POI?

I think if they had a POI they would name him imnediately. The community is in fear.

 

[human]

I have recently asked our grandson about these particular scent dogs since the sheriff's department where he is employed as a Sgt. has had them brought in only on certain cases where other agencies were assisting such as the FBI or the GBI.

He has told me what they mainly are used for is to see if laptops..cell phones...tablets.. hidden cameras etc are hidden inside of the walls.

However he said recently LE has used them for other purposes. The example he gave me is if they go into a home and basement and find storage boxes piled up in great numbers it is much more time effective to bring in this kind of dog that can scent the box or boxes out within minutes when it would hae taken them many hours or even days/weeks to painstakingly go through each and every box to make sure they dont miss anything. This is only done in certain cases where they feel it needs expediency.

I asked him about the circumstances of this particular case and he said the investigators would want to locate any communication electronics since they knew they had a 13 year old missing child hoping it would reveal if the suspect had communicated electronically with any of the three victims.

I made him aware after almost three months it still remains unsolved.

He said based on his own experience that would mean the tablet found inside of the dwelling or any other electronic communication devices that were located belonging to the victims did not yield anything of value that would be helpful in the investigation.

He also said at some scenes he has gone to they had so much stored away it took them weeks to go through it all.

He said he has come to the determination that many homeowners seem to be pack rats with some even bordering on being horders. He said some of the living areas will be neat and organized but in other areas it's like many of them never have thrown anything away the entire time they have lived there.

He has seen this whether the occupants live in mobile homes all the way up to upper class homes.

He said it can make it much more difficult and can prolong the investigation at the crime scene itself when there is so much 'stuff' the detectives must carefully go through looking for any possible clues or potential evidence.

Imo I think more and more in the future we will see police agencies everywhere who try to have these kind of dogs within their own local police departments where they will be readily accessible as soon as needed.

Imoo

I think their home had a lot of things stored.

 

[raja]

5 feet only into the house could be explained with blood tracks only going 5 feet into the house. We do not know however if the killer(s) had been in the house before the killings and abduction. He may have had Jayme out of the house and turned and shot James, came in 5 feet and shot Denise. I think James and Denise were both close to the door coming after Jayme. Denise had her phone in hand trying to get help but was shot and died immediately.

 

[Rosiebones]

Do you think there will be a P/C because it's the anniversary date of 3 months or that they will name a POI?

If they name a POI, it seems that waiting a week to do it means that time is not important as they must not know where he is, he must have left the area. Perhaps it is to name him and say that there is now a nation wide man hunt on (supports the sheriff's comment of looking in other directions and getting more help)

 

[Rubiconbob]

I was thinking about the neighbors who heard the shots.
12:38 Seven minutes off because the Sheriff told them their clock was 7 mins off.

So that could make it 12:45. But the clock could have almost advanced to 12:39 so actually more like 12:46.

That could make it fit the timeline.

It could fit timeline I suppose... I believe the reason the Sherrif is so dismissive of the smerkers timeline is 911 call captures somebody who’s no longer alive.. if your heard @ 12:52... and death was head wound that was instant... at that point smerkers timeline wouldn’t be plausible...

As some of y’all have pointed out. Coulda been perps behind smerkers trying out large gun...possible I guess..

 

[human]

It could fit timeline I suppose... I believe the reason the Sherrif is so dismissive of the smerkers timeline is 911 call captures somebody who’s no longer alive.. if your heard @ 12:52... and death was head wound that was instant... at that point smerkers timeline wouldn’t be plausible...

As some of y’all have pointed out. Coulda been perps behind smerkers trying out large gun...possible I guess..

How do they know what time he was killed?

The Medical examined cannot determine what time someone was killed exactly. It seems like they can only tell within a few hour time period, not minutes