AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #7

[MsBetsy]

I agree, but that's not precise language I've seen. The words used in the 911 dispatch log were "multiple rounds spent".
[118 - 10/15/2018 01:04:17] 325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED.
Link: 911 dispatch log: Call made from Denise's cell phone, door kicked in

For what it's worth, I'm a firearms instructor with thousands of hours range time including with leo's and it's not uncommon to refer to both spent shot shell and/or brass casings as "spent rounds".

They did refer to them as bullet casings in some of the first reports. Would they use that instead of shell casings? The statement was made by Fitzgerald. He called them bullet casings.

 

[SN76]

The important finding is the spintering is on the front of the chair. Which makes me think it was used as a defense tool

Personally...I cannot see any blood or any wood splintering IMHO

 

[rsd1200]

To those who think Jayme was the target, I have two questions:

1) Why chose this plan, inevitably the path of most resistance? It doesn’t take much to come up with a plan that likely wouldn’t result in a violent confrontation and double homicide, so why would the assailant(s) chose likely the worst available option?

2) From the moment the front door was breached the assailants were in the house for over 20 minutes, but disappeared with Jayme within four minutes of the 911 call. If abducting Jayme were the objective, why weren’t they gone in 5 minutes or less? It’s not going to take 20+ minutes to round up the kid and leave, especially considering the father was out of the way almost immediately.

We don't know how long J's mother lived. She could have managed to hit her 911 emergency button, just prior to realizing they were leaving with J. Though the assailants may have thought she was deceased, and was, minutes later. Will to survive, is strong, especially if you're trying to save your child. J may have even been able to hit Mom's 911, somehow, as the assailants (I'm guessing two), were possibly arguing, (heard people on 911 call), they then grab her and leave.

 

[CocoChanel]

Not all killings be equal. Someone who goes off and rage-kills a couple of adults might pause before turning their murderous-rage on--in the killer's pov--a comparatively innocent child.

That there's a wide moral gulf between the two on-their-face similar acts even among hardened criminals manifests in the well-known prison prestige hierarchy. People who kill adults are at the top, people who kill/harm children at the bottom.

Not saying whomever's responsible won't eventually end the 13 year old's life; but maybe in the moment they were unable to pull the trigger on her and realized they had to get out of there and figured they'd take diminutive Jayme with them and sort her out later.

I keep thinking that taking someone against their will only complicate an already bad situation. But I have to remind myself that the unsub(s) was/were obviously scrambled and unorganized in their thinking to commit such an act. Like Oceanblueeyes said in the post linked below, there is no logic in the thinking of these criminals. I can’t imagine they were calculating how they would be treated in prison if caught for this crime, but then again, who know?

WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #6

 

[sun16]

I don't see anyway they could know she is alive at this moment which is why I don't believe the story at all.

Totally agree. I think LE made a standard, positive comment re: her being alive, and somebody ran with that. I don’t believe it. I also believe she’s already deceased.

 

[MsBetsy]

How can they 100 percent know that? I mean, I hope they are right! But 100 perecent? Have they talked too her?

If LE had any new information that she was without a doubt still alive, wouldn't they have made a statement by now? How would they even know if they have no idea who the suspect is? Why would they be requesting anyone with information about a misunderstanding with the parents come forward? As far as we know, there is no new information at all. Jmo

 

[kay74]

I ASSUME they checked everyone at the father's workplace. If he was a supervisor or a manager he could have been responsible for firing someone or causing someone to lose their job. Other than that it must be an online person who Jayme innocently gave her address to. I would think by now they scoured their computers and phones, BUT the predator could have taken Jayme's computer.

 

[SandyQLS]

To those who think Jayme was the target, I have two questions:

1) Why choose this plan, inevitably the path of most resistance? It doesn’t take much to come up with a plan that likely wouldn’t result in a violent confrontation and double homicide, so why would the assailant(s) choose likely the worst available option?

2) From the moment the front door was breached the assailants were in the house for over 20 minutes, but disappeared with Jayme within four minutes of the 911 call. If abducting Jayme were the objective, why weren’t they gone in 5 minutes or less? It’s not going to take 20+ minutes to round up the kid and leave, especially considering the father was out of the way almost immediately.

1. JLC was never alone without an adult. There is no other day or hour that is better.
2. The abductor could not find JLC. while he was handling the parents, she hid.

 

[JaneEyre]

I guess because sometimes those strings become disconnected with a cushion and cushion might still be used on chair with loose strings unattached to cushion. I am also going with the timeline of the gun shots heard by neighbor and her husband at circa 12:31 a.m. There would not have been that much time left until 12:56 a.m. 911 call. IMO

But cushions definitely don't have 3 strings, or any in the front as shows up in that photo.

 

[margarita25]

They said something similar in the Mollie Tibbetts investigation, if I recall.

We all know how that one turned out.

( Re: MT:

“"We think she's still alive," a DCI rep told KCRG.“

A timeline of Mollie Tibbetts' disappearance

From another tabloidish source:

Law enforcement believes Mollie Tibbetts is still alive and being held hostage | Daily Mail Online

“We are hopeful that she is still alive and so we will continue to think that way until told otherwise,” Richard Rahn, special agent in charge of the Iowa Department of Public Safety’s Division of Criminal Investigation, told ABC News.”

Mollie Tibbetts Missing: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com )

 

[CocoChanel]

Personally...I cannot see any blood or any wood splintering IMHO

I can’t either, and almost never can when the discussion is about fuzzy photos where we are searching for clues. But then again I’m old, so I guess that is to be expected lol.

 

[awillis0513]

I think that’s unlikely for two reasons:

Her family is dead and the country is looking for her. Her abductor wouldn’t take the risk of allowing her out in public.

The odds are against her still being alive.

I have a hunch that she’s alive, even just going off cases that are quite similar to this one as far as a teenage girl being abducted and a family being murdered. I’m thinking of Sarah Maynard, Shasta Groene, and Hannah Anderson and the multiple similarities. My opinion only.

 

[Mom24]

To those who think Jayme was the target, I have two questions:

1) Why choose this plan, inevitably the path of most resistance? It doesn’t take much to come up with a plan that likely wouldn’t result in a violent confrontation and double homicide, so why would the assailant(s) choose likely the worst available option?

2) From the moment the front door was breached the assailants were in the house for over 20 minutes, but disappeared with Jayme within four minutes of the 911 call. If abducting Jayme were the objective, why weren’t they gone in 5 minutes or less? It’s not going to take 20+ minutes to round up the kid and leave, especially considering the father was out of the way almost immediately.

1. could be any multitude of reasons. When I read about Thomas Evans I was shocked. The man lived in a neighboring state, saw the mother and daughter in a grocery store, followed them home and then attacked. He had no idea who was in the house, the layout of the house or if anyone had weapons, but he was bat@@@t crazy enough to abduct a child after brutally beating the mother nearly to death. Another one was a person on some controlled substance who muttered something about CIA and protecting the child (again the assailant was previously unknown to the family). If someone's going to kick your door in, they most likely have boundary issues and that affects other areas of decision making.
2. I think Dad was quickly killed and he killed Mom as well to make sure there were no witnesses. My gut instinct is he shot Dad in the first few moments of the attack. He then shot Mom, who ran into the bathroom with her phone. The yelling heard by the 911 operator may have been the assailant screaming at the Mom as he bashed his way into the bathroom to get the phone. Then he grabbed the JC, headed out and took off.
I'm wondering if there are any service roads in the adjacent area that someone could have used to escape notice.

 

[thesaint]

I can’t imagine they were calculating how they would be treated in prison if caught for this crime, but then again, who know?

Not so much about eventual treatment in prison; but the eventual treatment in prison is a reflection of the relative morality of killing an adult vs killing a child and someone's willingness/ability to carry through with the act in the heat of the moment. Regardless of how one's ultimately treated in prison, I'd think just about anyone's going to find it more difficult to pull the trigger on a child than on an adult.

 

[ElementalLaura]

The Sims isn't an online game, it's single player. There is a mobile version (again single player) but it isn't popular. It is possible to play Fortnite on one's phone, but most people play on PC or console. Fortnite isn't a good way to make new friends anyway because of the way the game works, though I suppose you could if you really tried. LE would probably know that sort of thing pretty fast.

For mobile games, I’m told by my nieces that Pokémon go, wallabe, sharks in the park & zombies run! are popular. I’ve played Pokémon go with them as a driver (not while driving) & know a wide range of ages play.

 

[MassGuy]

I just don't know- it's quite a bit of killing to abduct a teenager from an online encounter. So did Jayme then give this person her address?

All it takes is a name (location helps), and you can find just about anyone in the country within a matter of seconds.

 

[Steve_Stockton]

She doesn’t look like the fortnight type. She does look like a sims or roblox/Minecraft type tho

Roblox is known for predatory activity. Here's one report that will blow your mind:

Girl, six, sent creepy message on app Roblox by stranger | Daily Mail Online

 

[MsBetsy]

They said something similar in the Mollie Tibbetts investigation, if I recall.

We all know how that one turned out.

Right, they implied that she may have been held in the basement of the guys home, talking about how they were there with cadaver dogs or something like that. Whatever it was it was misleading. Jmo

 

[JaneEyre]

How could someone barricade themselves in a bathroom?

That is a small house that I am sure does not have a spa like a bathroom.

Do people have locks on their bathroom door?

I have a flimsy lock on mine, but I also have two free-standing open-faced shelving units I could flip over as a barricade. Many people have something similar in a bathroom for extra storage. It wouldn't keep them out forever but it would buy time.

 

[coffee_is_the_best]

To those who think Jayme was the target, I have two questions:

1) Why choose this plan, inevitably the path of most resistance? It doesn’t take much to come up with a plan that likely wouldn’t result in a violent confrontation and double homicide, so why would the assailant(s) choose likely the worst available option?

2) From the moment the front door was breached the assailants were in the house for over 20 minutes, but disappeared with Jayme within four minutes of the 911 call. If abducting Jayme were the objective, why weren’t they gone in 5 minutes or less? It’s not going to take 20+ minutes to round up the kid and leave, especially considering the father was out of the way almost immediately.

It's possible the perp had come with the intent to have his way with Jayme while at the house. He took off with her because he wasn't finished with whatever evil he was up to, but he had to do something because of the 911 call. The perp could have originally intended on murdering everyone then and there. This would require an extreme level of sadism, and I wouldn't say its as likely as the perp being after the parents. But it's possible the perp was after violence as an ends. JMO on the possibilities.