AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #7

[MsMarple]

Finally caught up! IMO the neighbor has lost a little credibility in the last 24 hours due to the multiple interviews she's given but she has remained consistent in saying the two shots were very close together.

If the mom barricaded herself in the bathroom wouldn't it take more than a few seconds to shoot her? We don't know where the bathroom is located but even if it was a powder room near the front door it seems like it would take more than seconds after shooting Jayme's dad for the killer to first realize there was another person nearby, see where she went, break down the door and shoot her. If the bathroom was further away it would take even longer, more than seconds IMO.

I get that the article may or may not be accurate, it actually states:
“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the dispatcher before being killed.
Missing Jayme Closs Was Home When Abductor Shot Her Parents Dead, Source Claims

Also, it's impossible to know 100% if Jayme is alive unless she has been in constant contact with the FBI so what are they trying to say?
“We know 100 percent that Jayme is still alive,” the FBI insider told Radar.
FBI Source Reveals Bombshell: 'We Know 100 Percent' That Jayme Closs Is Alive

Anyway, the shots being so close together bothered me before the bathroom story. Since the neighbors weren't home until about 11:15 there may have been other shots earlier, which would change the timeline.

For example, *speculation only* the killer may have broken down the front door but the dad may not have answered a knock and instead was shot in an attempt to run for help.

Or there could have been two killers, one shooting the dad while the other rushed in after the mom.

I don't know if any of this would change the investigation, I guess I'm saying it's difficult (for me) to piece together a scenario right now. This case is confusing and frustrating. Where's Jayme???

 

[Seattle1]

That makes a bit of sense... as somebody who actually lives at an address that every gps gets wrong I can see the possibility. If I give you my address and you decide to come TP my house tonight I’ll sit back and laugh as the guy a block and a half away from me gets TP’d again. Yes, it really happened.

OK, stop winning your games, and save your neighbor some grief!!

 

[MassGuy]

I’m not arguing there shouldn’t be a link, but I think the point is not that the FBI is into numerology but that the perp or suspected perp might be into numerology (or the # 100) and the FBI is using that knowledge to try to communicate/appeal to them. I don’t have a link but I know in the DC Sniper case (and I believe others) public statements made by Feds were specifically worded to communicate something else to the un sub.

And for the record, I personally don’t think 100 means anything.

Yeah. If there is this type of communication, by the Feds or other entities, it is generally because then perpetrators have directed this communication.

The LE press conferences in the BTK case, were designed specifically to communicate with him. They also used personal ads to communicate, as he requested they do.

This isn’t the type of crime where I would expect any communication whatsoever from the perpetrator, which would mean no communication on the part of LE as a result.

 

[human]

What kind of door is that?

We had an insulated fiber glass door. Most doors are insulated steel.

That looks like wood and not a hollow core door.

What kind of door would break so easily? It looks like the wood is several inches thick

 

[SeekingJana]

I am not a conspiracy theorist. Not in any way.
However, there must be intense interest in the Closs residence.

I know that in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the house owned by the Ramseys where she died became a " tourist attraction". The house number was changed to try to deter the traffic and gawking in a residential neighborhood.

This happened in Boulder and likely other infamous crime scene locations before Google Maps and most GPS for personal use existed.

I wonder if, in this case, the FBI or other LE wanted to preserve the scene, they might change something in the map coordinates in a matter of minutes rather than going before the city council for a house number change, etc.

This would explain why some people were getting the house view 24 hours ago or so and are now being redirected..
I know this type of redirect does occur over ''sensitive" sites; sometimes permanently, sometimes temporarily.

 

[Moonhill]

I can try.

One thing we have to keep in mind from the 911 call log is that different pieces of the earliest information came from three different officers on scene within two minutes. These are the three officers initially dispatched to the 911 hangup call.

The three officers dispatched are mentioned in the second entry of the call log.
(I am using this call log reference - 911 logs from night of homicide in Barron County, call made from Denise’s phone)

PINGED TO THE ABOVE ADDRESS. ADVISED 317, 325, & 329.


1:03 329 ADVISED OF A POSSIBLE SUICIDE ATTEMPT. REQUESTED ASSISTANCE FROM BARRON PD. ADVISED 656.

1:03 PAGED 501 & 1ST RESPONDERS.

1:04 329 REQUESTED TO HAVE EMS STAGE. PAGED EMS FOR AN APPARENT SUICIDE.

[118 – 10/15/2018 01:04:17] 325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED.

[115 – 10/15/2018 01:05:19] 317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR. UNKNOWN IF ANYONE IS MISSING.

SENT ERT PAGE.

Each officer was doing slightly different things and 329 seems to be the first in or the first to speak to 911 but didn't make any mention of a male down or door kicked in. The only way 329 could even ascertain a possible suicide attempt is if he could see the person or perhaps significant amounts of blood. But 329 doesn't mention specifics other than a working assumption of the situation. His requests from there to have EMS Stage out is typical protocol in such situations to make sure the scene is safe/secured for EMS to get to the patient. Officer 325 adds the detail of a male being down and indicates spent rounds. Clearly, he has to have seen both the body and the rounds.

The pertinent part to your questions comes stems from what 317 told the 911 dispatch. He first requests the Emergency Response Team. Then mentions the door has been kicked in. This leaves the open question of whether or not the door had already been kicked in when they got there or whether law enforcement forced that door. He advises that the male who is down answered the door. That could be taken to me that the male opened the door, however, that would contradict it being kicked in and what the Sheriff saying earlier and throughout the week that both the mother and father were already deceased when officers arrived on scene. So it is more likely 317's working assumption based on where Jayme's father's body was in relation to the door, its position i.e. which direction his head or feet were, etc. And finally, 317 advises that it is unknown if anyone is missing. It is unclear whether or not the 3 officers dispatched were made aware that the call came from Denise's phone (or more likely told the call trace comes back to a Denise Closs) but if they were they should have known that there should be a Denise somewhere in the house or nearby if she had fled but they had not yet gone through the house to clear it. It would be obvious that there was a child that lived in the house and they would have discovered that during the clearing operation. And the drone request a little later on was either because they thought the shooter may still be nearby or they were already aware a child was not accounted for.

What isn't clear is whether 329 had entered the house at the time of his initial advisement to the 911 dispatcher or was observing from outside before entering. Law enforcement doesn't just charge into an unknown situation because there could be an ambush or an armed person so I expect that the first officers would have attempted to get a visual of what was going on in the house before entering. One of them may have gone to the other door off the deck on the right-hand (east) side of the house or looked through any windows. Probably did so, more likely than not.

None of the officers per the 911 call log indicate the position of the male body only the interpretation that the "male had answered the door".

The Sheriff had previously said ...
(I am using a WEAU source because they have one page with all of their previous stories on it all as one page)
UPDATE: Sheriff: Missing girl was in home at the time of the murders



The Sheriff is speaking about this later in the same day this happened. This could be only his interpretation at the time or he may have had a very good understanding of what officers had seen upon arrival from talking with them and debriefing them. But he is clearly saying the door was already open when officers arrived. This would seem to indicate that the door must have been kicked in prior to officers arriving. The 911 call log isn't out yet so we don't yet know of the door being kicked in though analysis of photos and screenshots/frame from media video indicate some damage to the door jamb and the boarding up of the lower part of the door area.

Today a reporter apparently spoke or e-mailed or chatted with the Sheriff regarding the the door.
Clarification: Chilling details revealed in dispatch record

In the story we are told ...


And, just like that, the Sheriff muddied the waters. Reading the call log, it is entirely possible that any of the officers could have kicked in the door but whether they did or not is unknown. If they did, it calls into question previous statements made by the Sheriff. If they didn't then why not simply say so.

Don't know if this helped.

Wow, an amazingly clear and cogent synopsis of a confusing and muddled report. Although it is certainly understandable after reading your post that multiple officers were each attempting to process the horrific scene they had just encountered. Thank you!

 

[lex8396]

Finally caught up! IMO the neighbor has lost a little credibility in the last 24 hours due to the multiple interviews she's given but she has remained consistent in saying the two shots were very close together.

If the mom barricaded herself in the bathroom wouldn't it take more than a few seconds to shoot her? We don't know where the bathroom is located but even if it was a powder room near the front door it seems like it would take more than seconds after shooting Jayme's dad for the killer to first realize there was another person nearby, see where she went, break down the door and shoot her. If the bathroom was further away it would take even longer, more than seconds IMO.

I get that the article may or may not be accurate, it actually states:
“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the dispatcher before being killed.
Missing Jayme Closs Was Home When Abductor Shot Her Parents Dead, Source Claims

Also, it's impossible to know 100% if Jayme is alive unless she has been in constant contact with the FBI so what are they trying to say?
“We know 100 percent that Jayme is still alive,” the FBI insider told Radar.
FBI Source Reveals Bombshell: 'We Know 100 Percent' That Jayme Closs Is Alive

Anyway, the shots being so close together bothered me before the bathroom story. Since the neighbors weren't home until about 11:15 there may have been other shots earlier, which would change the timeline.

For example, *speculation only* the killer may have broken down the front door but the dad may not have answered a knock and instead was shot in an attempt to run for help.

Or there could have been two killers, one shooting the dad while the other rushed in after the mom.

I don't know if any of this would change the investigation, I guess I'm saying it's difficult (for me) to piece together a scenario right now. This case is confusing and frustrating. Where's Jayme???

MAYBE J AYME STILL HAS HER PHONE AND THEY DON'T WANT HER ABDUCTOR TO KNOW!! That certainly would explain why they're being so secretive about the phone.

 

[IceIce9]

Someone in a post upthread had asked if a had been set up.

Here is an article about a benefit account set up for donations:

Benefit account set up at Sterling Bank for missing Jayme Closs

 

[MsMarple]

I just dont see rage. It seemed pretty methodial ..cold and calculated. imo.

He immediately took out his biggest threat and shortly afterward he took out the only threat left.

It doesnt take rage of any kind to do this.

All he needed was determination to exercise his plan and carry it out.

Jmo

Yes, that's where I am right now too. I think Jayme was the target. Why they chose to do it in her house and kill the parents... who the heck knows?
IMO.

 

[human]

This is a typical door you would see in a nOrthern MN or WI home.

Steel Doors - Front Doors - The Home Depot

 

[MassGuy]

I am not a conspiracy theorist. Not in any way.
However, there must be intense interest in the Closs residence.

I know that in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the house owned by the Ramseys where she died became a " tourist attraction". The house number was changed to try to deter the traffic and gawking in a residential neighborhood.

This happened in Boulder and likely other infamous crime scene locations before Google Maps and most GPS for personal use existed.

I wonder if, in this case, the FBI or other LE wanted to preserve the scene, they might change something in the map coordinates in a matter of minutes rather than going before the city council for a house number change, etc.

This would explain why some people were getting the house view 24 hours ago or so and are now being redirected..
I know this type of redirect does occur over ''sensitive" sites; sometimes permanently, sometimes temporarily.

I genuinely don’t think it’s related. I have this same issue with my house on Google maps, and have encountered it many times before when searching for a particular location.

I think it’s just a coincidence.

 

[nwmouse]

I am not a conspiracy theorist. Not in any way.
However, there must be intense interest in the Closs residence.

I know that in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the house owned by the Ramseys where she died became a " tourist attraction". The house number was changed to try to deter the traffic and gawking in a residential neighborhood.

This happened in Boulder and likely other infamous crime scene locations before Google Maps and most GPS for personal use existed.

I wonder if, in this case, the FBI or other LE wanted to preserve the scene, they might change something in the map coordinates in a matter of minutes rather than going before the city council for a house number change, etc.

This would explain why some people were getting the house view 24 hours ago or so and are now being redirected..
I know this type of redirect does occur over ''sensitive" sites; sometimes permanently, sometimes temporarily.

BBM.
Interesting theory.
I thought LE would just cordon off the crime scene and have security monitor the perimeter if necessary?
I mean why change map coordinates when the Closs address is known to the whole community?
MOO, I'm just curious as this case is very odd.

 

[Songbird1973]

Hey guys....since some of you weren't here last night @Wrenny posted a link to the full 911 log. Thread 6 post 516.
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

Interesting to see it all in it's native form. Don't mention names as one might be a minor and other person mentioned is Mom's brother.

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #6

Another of the persons mentioned is the mom's sister, as well.

 

[IceIce9]

To be able to hear the actual 911 call.

To know what time her father left work and did he stop anywhere on the way home.

 

[Trino]

I think the father went to work that day while Jayme and her mother went to the family get together. I also thought of your idea. Maybe he left work and stopped somewhere before coming home. For some reason... someone saw his money as he paid for something or someone became angry at him for some reason (example, he cut someone off) or he won a jackpot at the casino... so, for some reason, he was followed home. I have other theories, too, but I have considered the one you mention.

I think by now LE would be on to the idea the father won money at the casino. There has been no talk of his being there.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Hi! So I have been following a gut instinct of mine but really need some advice. I just read earlier posts where LE and such feels she is alive. I have been watching the Barron County as well as neighboring town jail logs. I ran a few reports and (I won't share cause the guy is innocent until proven otherwise).. and feel strongly he may know something. He is being held from another county in Barron. If they hold someone on say a probation violation... wouldn't three days give LE to decide if he knows more? If they think Jayme is alive, would they arrest someone on anything they could and hold him? Wouldn't LE want to use surveillance instead of locking someone up on a trumped up charge? I guess I am doubting my own gut and wanted your opinion.

Thanks so much

I think the issue is that regardless of the fact that Jayme is still missing (whether alive or dead) they would have an individual that would have already violently murdered two people. Getting that person behind bars by whatever charges prevents them from killing any more people.

 

[pinkfly]

Finally caught up! IMO the neighbor has lost a little credibility in the last 24 hours due to the multiple interviews she's given but she has remained consistent in saying the two shots were very close together.

If the mom barricaded herself in the bathroom wouldn't it take more than a few seconds to shoot her? We don't know where the bathroom is located but even if it was a powder room near the front door it seems like it would take more than seconds after shooting Jayme's dad for the killer to first realize there was another person nearby, see where she went, break down the door and shoot her. If the bathroom was further away it would take even longer, more than seconds IMO.

I get that the article may or may not be accurate, it actually states:
“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the dispatcher before being killed.
Missing Jayme Closs Was Home When Abductor Shot Her Parents Dead, Source Claims

Also, it's impossible to know 100% if Jayme is alive unless she has been in constant contact with the FBI so what are they trying to say?
“We know 100 percent that Jayme is still alive,” the FBI insider told Radar.
FBI Source Reveals Bombshell: 'We Know 100 Percent' That Jayme Closs Is Alive

Anyway, the shots being so close together bothered me before the bathroom story. Since the neighbors weren't home until about 11:15 there may have been other shots earlier, which would change the timeline.

For example, *speculation only* the killer may have broken down the front door but the dad may not have answered a knock and instead was shot in an attempt to run for help.

Or there could have been two killers, one shooting the dad while the other rushed in after the mom.

I don't know if any of this would change the investigation, I guess I'm saying it's difficult (for me) to piece together a scenario right now. This case is confusing and frustrating. Where's Jayme???

Yesterday someone also pointed out that officers had reported male down and multiple rounds spent right at the start before they even got to the Mom so I think there were more than those two shots.

 

[Lorelei1]

yes, this is a good point. i don't believe any passing car was ever caught on the police dash cam (although that could be info they are not confirming or denying). the most obvious answer then, is that the car was heading in the opposite direction away from the police.

I think the car probably was heading away from town but I would have expected another motorist driving on that highway to notice a car that was likely speeding and possibly driving erratically if there was someone in the car desperately to escape. Would he maybe have put her in the trunk so that no one would see her in the vehicle?

IMO if it was a planned kidnapping there’s a good chance there were two people involved because of how fast they were able to get her into the car and seemingly disappear with her in the 4 minute period between the 911 call and the police arriving.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Hold on, the "wrong house" theory is backwards and this is significant. We know the assailant(s) ended up at the Closs residence, but we know they didn't enter that address into a gps to get there. That's going to mean that either the assailant(s) were familiar with the house (maybe been there before), or got specific directions from somebody that knows the gps will take you to the wrong address.

 

[Wrenny]

I understand that the average parenting age has increased from the early 20s to mid 20s. That would still make having children in one's mid 30s and 40s atypical, no?

The average maternal age for first births, in Wisconsin, in 2006, for non-Hispanic white women was 26.1 (CDC). If a bell-shaped curve is assumed, that would make 33 (26+7) as common as 19 (26-7).