AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #7

[margarita25]

I keep thinking that taking someone against their will only complicate an already bad situation. But I have to remind myself that the unsub(s) was/were obviously scrambled and unorganized in their thinking to commit such an act. Like Oceanblueeyes said in the post linked below, there is no logic in the thinking of these criminals. I can’t imagine they were calculating how they would be treated in prison if caught for this crime, but then again, who know?

WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #6

If they knew 911 had been contacted (and even otherwise), they might have taken Jayme as insurance on a clean getaway. This is still a main theory I can not diaclude, taking a hostage for insurance.

 

[pinkfly]

So far, from reading these threads, I've seen three cases referred to where parent/family were murdered and minors were abducted.

Groene Case
Hannah Anderson Case
A case with a perp named Hoffman.

I believe in each case the female abducted child survived for around a week until they were rescued (though a male child who was abducted in the Groene case was murdered post-abduction)?

All these cases feel alike. What other cases are there where adults are murdered and an 8 to 16 year old female is abducted?

Whatever was going on in the mind of the perp in each of those cases it resulted in them doing the same or similar to what's happened here. For some reason abducting the subject of their 'interest' is not enough for them, they feel they need to destroy the rest of the family in the process.

It's a terrifying possibility. And I think it also means that LE need to look not just for people who might have had disagreements with the family recently but anyone who's been friends with them or acquaintances that loosely know them and know there's a teen daughter, someone who knows them just enough to develop a fixation on this girl?

Any other types of perp we're left with the questions of why abduct from the house instead of getting J alone outside, or why was J taken instead of killed along with her parents? With this type of perp we have an answer.

As to the time between the reported hearing of the shots by the neighbors and the time the 911 call was made, I have no idea.

On a positive note....the cases you mention did have live endings for the abducted girls. 2 found about a week after their abduction. DiMaggio was killed in a shootout at a campground when FBI agents went in to save Hannah. Sarah Maynard was found in Matthew Hoffman's basement after about a week and before they were able to locate the bodies of her mom, friend and brother (a dog found them hidden in a tree). Shasta was gone the longest and I feel bad that she hasn't had a very easy time since.

I hope that Jayme is found alive. And soon.

 

[MsBetsy]

Which article is that?

I dont know but anyone could have guessed 50/ 50. Just my opinion.

 

[MassGuy]

Shouldn't cell towers know every pinging phone even if you dont know the number you want to check for?

Like who was pinging here around this time? Bam.

Shouldn't it be that easy by now? Like a cell tower dump or something?

Yes. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they have done that.

It takes time to get that data, and from what I understand, much longer to analyze it.

 

[Gardener1850]

Me too. Why would you commit two counts of first degree murder when you could have abducted her at the bus stop?

A local or someone who lived in rural Wisconsin posted here that the "bus stop" was most likely the foot of her driveway. Since they lived on a hwy the road was probably pretty busy during school bus pick up times. There is no sidewalk and not much of a shoulder. Hard to pull over there or into the driveway in daylight without lots of people driving past your car. And if Jayme was shy, she wouldn't go up to a car that stopped but would be more likely to run back inside her house. JMO.

ETA: But I agree with your post that double murder seems really unusual-- most child predators will not take that risk, but a few examples of other cases have been given in these threads.

 

[MassGuy]

I dont know but anyone could have guessed 50/ 50. Just my opinion.

Ha! True. And I was more like 95/5. Unfortunately, this was correct.

 

[KLM6]

Can someone help me, Im confused by the police report. They transmitted a man down before stating the door was kicked in. So do we know if police kicked in the door, or if it was already kicked in? And how did they know about the man down before the door? Was the dad found outside? The part about the man down answering the door is also confusing. If the suspect kicked in the door, it would be because no one was answering it, right? Sorry for all the ?? but I cant figure it out.

 

[awillis0513]

Shouldn't cell towers know every pinging phone even if you dont know the number you want to check for?

Like who was pinging here around this time? Bam.

Shouldn't it be that easy by now? Like a cell tower dump or something?

I think the issue would be in subpoenaing the cell phone providers. Providers would require information about the subscriber or phone number.

I know providers are generally less than willing to hand over information and often dodge them because handing over client data may end in them being sued.

The American Bar Association provided this guide.

https://www.americanbar.org/content...newsletter/2006/ElecEvidence.authcheckdam.pdf

 

[MsBetsy]

There may be a strategy in it. Also, this could be a statement made by an agent without the rest of the bureau knowing. Leakers do share information on their own for money many times.

Why would they leak information that could potentially harm the investigation? Of all news sources why choose an Entertainment and Gossip site to reveal this exclusive information to?

 

[onealwayssearching]

Fellow sleuths. I am new to this site but have been following this case diligently, reading all Linked info via 'News' articles and the additional ones I came across in my searches, wi circuit court access, possible relatives and their records, mugshots.com, google earth (location assessment), real estate etc. IMO after being an unverified amateur sleuth and possibly even crazy (jk), propose the following theory and questions:
IMO these victims were all known to the assailants and targeted. This was personal. Very brutal, a crime of passion and rage. I believe this crime was perpetrated by disorganized killer(s) and perhaps Jayme was taken as an afterthought. They obviously didn't want to kill HER or they would have on site. On the most recent update today on radar.com (ss) link the interviewers quoted the FBI as saying that "The perpetrator had the specific intent to leave the home with Jayme in their possession." Why not do this the easy way and abduct her off the street and avoid having to kill 2 people and leave behind perhaps a messy crime scene including DNA? And does anyone know anything conclusive that I may have missed regarding what "appeared" to be restraints on the kitchen chair LE carried out of the house? DNA evidence would answer my question if those were indeed restraints. Someone, perhaps mom was restrained and questioned for information? The FBI now clearly states that they believe Jayme is alive. Which may imply IMO that 1) she was taken by someone she knew and is either being held against her will in the area or on the run being held by her captors, or 2) being held against her will with the intent to sell her into Human trafficking??? Any others ideas about where specifically we are intending to find her?

 

[Deleted member 278]

Why would they leak information that could potentially harm the investigation? Of all news sources why choose an Entertainment and Gossip site to reveal this exclusive information to?

I wish Fitzgerald would comment on this.

 

[awillis0513]

Why would they leak information that could potentially harm the investigation? Of all news sources why choose an Entertainment and Gossip site to reveal this exclusive information to?

Because they pay, much like the New York Post. It’s just a situation that could have happened. If you have an agent that needs cash, it’s always possible. The Trump leaks also had random agents leaking for pay. The Treasury had an employee arrested this week for attempting to do the same. Also, Radar does do other reporting besides entertainment news. But money is money to a desperate person.

 

[MassGuy]

Can someone help me, Im confused by the police report. They transmitted a man down before stating the door was kicked in. So do we know if police kicked in the door, or if it was already kicked in? And how did they know about the man down before the door? Was the dad found outside? The part about the man down answering the door is also confusing. If the suspect kicked in the door, it would be because no one was answering it, right? Sorry for all the ?? but I cant figure it out.

If police kicked in the door, it wouldn’t be necessary to describe it in that way. The implication was/is that the perpetrator did this.

The dad was found in the doorway, inside the house.

I’m not concerned with the order in which these things were reported. The man down is more significant, and may have been mentioned first for this reason.

As for the specific circumstances surrounding the door being kicked in (what may have preceded it), we can only guess.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think maybe they didn't like that particular neighbor.

And I'm beginning to see why.

 

[KitKat2xx8]

that there's dual motive. Anger/rage towards her parents and obsession for Jayme.

To those who think Jayme was the target, I have two questions:

1) Why choose this plan, inevitably the path of most resistance? It doesn’t take much to come up with a plan that likely wouldn’t result in a violent confrontation and double homicide, so why would the assailant(s) choose likely the worst available option?

Jayme's the target, and middle of night ambush is somewhat uncommon but maybe is part of the plan or the perp, perhaps there is some rage about her parents. Maybe he's mad at the world type, and looks upon her family situation with jealousy, which causes rage in him. I'm thinking if he is a SO, and that's his motivation, than perhaps he was abused as a child, and sees "parents" are to blame, and takes his anger out on them, while he's uncontrollably committing his crime. Maybe I'm off the deep end of "profiling him", but I think it is someone who knew them or of them, she was targeted, and her parents were collateral damage. I literally attempting to think out a reason WHY this has happened, because it's so beyond comprehending.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Why would they leak information that could potentially harm the investigation? Of all news sources why choose an Entertainment and Gossip site to reveal this exclusive information to?

Just grab a security guard hat and radar online will pay you for inside information on any crime any time.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Since the perp(s) had to leave quickly, I agree there must be some evidence left.

Would one need steel toed boots to kick in a door?

We had a fiberglass insulated door.

It is interesting that the storm door was not locked. It could not have been as it is not damaged.

I wonder what kind of door they had.

No. I've been with LE before when they quickly shouldered a door open. One hit, and the door jam popped right out.

 

[MarziPanda]

I've made tons of mates playing Fortnite. It's actually a really social game and easy to make friends.

Eh, that's just not been the experience of myself or anyone I know. People I know only play with friends they had known beforehand.

 

[Alethea]

Leaking confidential information is not only a fireable offense but in certain cases it is a felony. I would take any insinuation that dedicated FBI Special Agents are risking their career, pension, and livelihood and potentially the life of a child for a few bucks from a gossip magazine with the gallon of salt it deserves.

 

[awillis0513]

that there's dual motive. Anger/rage towards her parents and obsession for Jayme.

Also, the abductor could believe if they kill her parents then she will stay with him.