AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #9

[Jethro4WS]

Thank you Jethro! I thought I had seen stairs somewhere. So the stairs go off to the side and seem to line up with the door. I wish we had a clearer shot of that door to see if it was also damaged. (Could indicate more than one person or that the perp tried multiple ways to get into the house. JMO.)

Yeah, I would like a better image of that side. And if we had images from different days we might be able to determine if certain items were removed as evidence.

 

[Gardener1850]

I wonder if there was a peephole in that door ?

I recall seeing it had a small window. I can't find it now but it was the photo from the roofing company.

 

[natsound]

Let him go!

***mic drop***

 

[thepinkdragon]

Snipped.

I think this case is about sex. I don't think the perp wanted a one-time assault, but to keep Jayme. In order to keep her, he needed to get rid of her parents. With her parents gone, she is broken and has nowhere to return (in his mind; she does indeed have extended family), the parents cannot prevent him from taking her and keeping her, the parents cannot identify him to LE.

My hunch (and it's only a hunch) is that the perp was fixated on her innocence and youth - someone who wanted a "pure" "wife," perhaps.

My hope is she is being kept somewhere and will be found sooner rather than later.

jmo

So far this is the only conclusion that makes any sense to me, sick as it is.

This is starting to remind me of the Lisa Irwin case in that she just vanished without a trace and we all went crazy trying to figure out what happened. That was the case that brought me here so many years ago and remains unsolved. MOO

 

[Deleted member 278]

.

 

[Mollyandme]

I'm not very tech savvy so I will just ask if anyone thinks the FBI's Stingray Technology would be helpful or could be used in this case? I know I remember discussions of the FBI using it in the Missy Bevers case. I tried to research it but ended up totally confused. If anyone who understands this better could help me out and explain whether or not it could be used here I would appreciate it!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Forgive me for not keeping up, this idea may have been floated already, but after dwelling on this for a bit I think it’s entirely possible that this isn’t about the Closs family at all. The chain of events as we know them just do not fit an abduction, a home invasion/robbery, or even a vengeful murder. No motive along those lines works without some serious contradictions.

It seems to me that the motive was simply to commit the most horrific crime possible on this family, almost as if to send a message. A message to who? I don’t know. Somebody close to the family. Obviously my opinion only, but that’s where I’m leaning right now.

I dont know or believe this was about leaving some type of unknown message but I do see that theory used in a lot of cases before they are solved.

I cant remember anycaseat the moment with these same set of circumstances where that turned out to be true once the suspect/s were finally arrested and charged.

It is a possibilty that someone wanted to commit thrill killings and abducted Jayme to sexually assault her when they found her there.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm finding it very difficult to believe that part of the perp's ultimate plan was to do anything other than leave with Jayme. As several have said, after shooting dad then mom, even if he was out of ammo it would've been easy to murder Jayme in cold blood right there via some other means then take her and deal with her at another time. She would've been a terrified and likely in shock barely teenage girl who weighs 100 pounds.

Maybe it wasn't supposed to be so messy with mom and dad both being murdered, maybe they weren't even supposed to know perp would be there, those details need to come out after this is solved. I will be personally very surprised if the perp's primary goal in all of this was to leave with Jayme. My opinion, but still believe it was sadly for sexual reasons and wanting to have/possess/own/etc. her.

The crime scene itself was described in several places as very violent and it does not appear we're looking at a professional hitman or criminal here. The parents do not appear to have been methodically executed by a single bullet and the perp was in and out. This was messy and gave the impression to me that the perp was acting impulsively. Since Jayme was the only thing we know of taken from the home, to me that signifies the impulse was to have her.

Agree. I really think this is a delusional late teens/early 20’s person who thought this was a rescue mission. The other theory I am less committed to is something to do with the casino and debt.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

My point regarding this is really just about people questioning what their home equity loan was for. Far more likely it was something like this than to pay off gambling debts or other types of things people suggested early on. Home ownership isn't cheap.

I completely agree with you. I think the gambling debt angle is highly unlikely and this makes a lot more sense. I think it was posted that the house was painted in the last year or two so home repairs and improvements are a definite possibility.

 

[Megnut]

I return constantly not to what is possible but what is likely. Tragically we have seen all manner of evil in prior cases and this one is up there, but I think most of the speculation here is arising out of frustration, in that we don't know more and indeed this is utterly senseless. That being said, Occam's razor would have me think this was a meth-induced home invasion. My theory, one or two individuals, one at the door. Guns, not necessarily with murder on the brain, but certainly terror. A knock on the door would have given them free entry. It seems that James did not open the door fully, which may have lead to the frame being kicked in or shot in, entirely possible those two shots from outside wounded James on the inside, and that is when the events went from a terrifying home invasion to a macabre murder scene. So much we don't know. Were interior lights ever on? It was 12:30 pm or later. Was a TV on? Quietly? Loudly? Imagine the chaos of being awakened to something that doesn't make any sense....

 

[human]

We know their lot is wooded, so that is a possibility.

I am learning so much about septic systems!

So little information this is what it has come to-sleuthing on excrement.

There is only one anomaly we know. The $14,000 paid judgment that Denise had.

What was that about? And the $13,000 loan that did not go for septic and it does not look like a new roof from aerial view.

They did hire a very nice painting company and did not cheap out on that. But $13,000 is too much for painting

 

[andreww]

This debt theory makes no sense to me. Who is supposed to be terrified by these murders, if no one knows of any debt?

Yep, debt makes no sense. Kill the parents and you'll never get your debt repaid.

 

[photographer4]

Horrible, but taking a 13 year old kid you didn't plan on is just way too difficult. Even if she's seen you, punch her in the face and leave. Hit her with the gun and knock her unconscious. I tend to think he wanted to take her and planned on it.

Sadly I think you’re right.

 

[bluesneakers]

I return constantly not to what is possible but what is likely. Tragically we have seen all manner of evil in prior cases and this one is up there, but I think most of the speculation here is arising out of frustration, in that we don't know more and indeed this is utterly senseless. That being said, Occam's razor would have me think this was a meth-induced home invasion. My theory, one or two individuals, one at the door. Guns, not necessarily with murder on the brain, but certainly terror. A knock on the door would have given them free entry. It seems that James did not open the door fully, which may have lead to the frame being kicked in or shot in, entirely possible those two shots from outside wounded James on the inside, and that is when the events went from a terrifying home invasion to a macabre murder scene. So much we don't know. Were interior lights ever on? It was 12:30 pm or later. Was a TV on? Quietly? Loudly? Imagine the chaos of being awakened to something that doesn't make any sense....

How common are meth-induced home invasions?

 

[SandyQLS]

Snipped.

I think this case is about sex. I don't think the perp wanted a one-time assault, but to keep Jayme. In order to keep her, he needed to get rid of her parents. With her parents gone, she is broken and has nowhere to return (in his mind; she does indeed have extended family), the parents cannot prevent him from taking her and keeping her, the parents cannot identify him to LE.

My hunch (and it's only a hunch) is that the perp was fixated on her innocence and youth - someone who wanted a "pure" "wife," perhaps.

My hope is she is being kept somewhere and will be found sooner rather than later.

jmo

I agree with this post. You wrote that so well. I also hope he had a place prepared and is holding her there. I believe the abduction was planned for some period of time, organized. I don't see rage, I see efficient threat elimination of parents in an ambush, ignore dog. I think he lured the father to the door. He almost controlled the cell phones which are also a threat. I think Jayme made the 911 call, and I think he did not expect that to happen. He is so involved in his own fantasy of Jayme he thought she would be happy to see him.

 

[natsound]

I'm finding it very difficult to believe that part of the perp's ultimate plan was to do anything other than leave with Jayme. As several have said, after shooting dad then mom, even if he was out of ammo it would've been easy to murder Jayme in cold blood right there via some other means then take her and deal with her at another time. She would've been a terrified and likely in shock barely teenage girl who weighs 100 pounds.

Maybe it wasn't supposed to be so messy with mom and dad both being murdered, maybe they weren't even supposed to know perp would be there, those details need to come out after this is solved. I will be personally very surprised if the perp's primary goal in all of this was to leave with Jayme. My opinion, but still believe it was sadly for sexual reasons and wanting to have/possess/own/etc. her.

The crime scene itself was described in several places as very violent and it does not appear we're looking at a professional hitman or criminal here. The parents do not appear to have been methodically executed by a single bullet and the perp was in and out. This was messy and gave the impression to me that the perp was acting impulsively. Since Jayme was the only thing we know of taken from the home, to me that signifies the impulse was to have her.

BBM where did you see this?

I also agree that the abductor would not have left with Jayme if he/she didn't intend to.

 

[cody22]

I recall seeing it had a small window. I can't find it now but it was the photo from the roofing company.

Thank you......... I had missed that one.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

One of the early crime scene exterior shots shows a green garbage container behind the pick-up truck. If evidence techs / LE didn’t place it there, it signifies that the Closs household was scheduled for trash pick-up on Monday. Typically these containers are wheeled out to the end of the driveway for pick-up. The fact that it’s close to the roadway means it was ready for pick-up? It was just another routine Sunday night? It could also mean that it was placed there AFTER JC arrived home (it’s doubtful he backed up to it, but then . . . He could have, it appears close to the truck. With caveats, it means there was nothing unusual going on (until all Hell broke loose). OK, it could also mean that the evidence techs / LE placed it there . . . But that’s not a convenient location if they were using it for “practical purposes”. I’ve noted that it’s missing from subsequent shots, only saw it in one photo.

 

[ReckoningDay]

It is painful to think about what Jayme went through seeing both parents killed

 

[Steelslady]

But stranger abduction and murder is much more rare than we often believe or think .

It is rare indeed, but we all need to remember- it DOES happen on occasion. Which is even more frightening, because there is no known suspect or POI for a long time- it can take months or even years to find out who harmed the victim.

I know people don't want to believe this is what happened with Jayme, but honestly, what else fits? The poor girl is missing, not a trace of her has been found that we are aware of, unless LE has something and we haven't heard about it yet. Not even a hair tie, a shoe, something- I haven't heard a blessed thing that has been found of Jayme's to indicate how she was abducted and what direction her and the person that took her has her. Or, if she was lucky enough to escape- best possible scenario- where could she possibly be?

She is only 13 years old. Yes, I know 13 year olds can survive on their own, but usually you have some kind of shelter, food, water, etc. She wasn't, in my opinion, prepared to survive on her own. She didn't expect to lose her parents in such a horrific manner- psychologically, how in God's name do you manage to think straight after witnessing your parents death's like this? It would be one thing if he was a runaway, but to our knowledge, she is not. So where could this 13 year old be?

What other scenario, other than a home invasion by an unknown stranger, fits into this case?

 

[Gardener1850]

We know their lot is wooded, so that is a possibility.

I am learning so much about septic systems!

So little information this is what it has come to-sleuthing on excrement.

BBM. Lol!
On a serious note, have you sent the septic issues in as a tip? If they had to have it serviced a lot that could mean different companies and many individuals coming on their property that would know just what the house and lot looked like and may have seen Jayme getting off the bus or playing in the backyard. I don't know a thing about septic companies but if it is a low-income/high turn over profession our suspect could be someone who only visited the property once on a job and no longer works for the septic company. LE should be able to track all those people down who worked on the septic, but they might not be working on it without a tip. JMO.