AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #9

[BRRI]

My point regarding this is really just about people questioning what their home equity loan was for. Far more likely it was something like this than to pay off gambling debts or other types of things people suggested early on. Home ownership isn't cheap.

Agree. I think the equity loan was likely to pay off home repairs. The reason I even mentioned the equity loan is because it’s a debt paid to *someone*. If it was for home repairs, then they likely had workers in and out of the home, who would know the floor plan, residents, schedules.

 

[Mom24]

Ok for a cabin but pumping is expensive. Over $200 a time? Or what is the cost there?

Septic systems are made of a holding tank and a leech field. The waste from the house goes into a holding tank and is then gravity led to a leech field so that in essence what comes off the leech field is drinkable water. That's a very simplistic view of it, but it's the bare bones.
The holding tank is typically pumped out every couple of years, sometimes longer, based on the usage at the house. An old couple living alone might be able to wait for 4 -5 years, whereas that same house with kids and 4 loads of laundry a day might need yearly pumping.
If the leech field begins to fail, then the waste tends to back up in the holding tank and you find you may need to start pumping every month to keep it from backing up into the home. Pumping a tank depends on how much they retrieve out of it because the pumping company is charged by how much waste they deliver to the treatment company. It can range from $60-$400 per pumping.
To replace an in-kind septic system is a nominal cost, typically $1200, if they need to replace to another area (i.e. the current system fails because the land is too wet, it was properly installed, there are no permits on file, etc) then it can balloon up to 20K (test pits, soil surveys, engineering plans, permits, etc).
That they had their system checked 12 times in that period of time can be due to a variety of factors. Were they taking out another mortgage on the home? Changing the financing to get cheaper payments on the current mortgage? Was there nearby development and they were checking the integrity(blasting going on nearby that would cause damage)? Were they trying to sell the house at some time? Change in homeowner's insurance? All these things would also cause a need for a septic system check. They may have put an addition on the home,wanted to put in a disposal system (yes they'll do a septic check for a new installation) and all of these things are above and beyond what they may have needed for routine maintenance. Additionally, most states have monies available for septic replacements for homeowners.

 

[bluesneakers]

Agree. I really think this is a delusional late teens/early 20’s person who thought this was a rescue mission. The other theory I am less committed to is something to do with the casino and debt.

Amateur opinion and speculation

The rescue mission is something I’m thinking about now too, remembering the Blanchard case. Not suggesting the family situation was the same in any way or that Jayme is involved, just thinking what he did to “rescue” Gypsy.

 

[Waterdog]

RSBM.

People looking at the unredaction PDF version of the 911 call log in the persons involved section need to be aware that the names are not listed in any particular order. The two people in the vehicle that had been driving by are the second and third individuals listed. You can see that by comparing the name and initials given in the time stamped entry to the names in the top section. There have been a number of people that have posted that have been under the impression that the first two names on the list were the ones in the vehicle and that isn't the case.

For the people who drove by to be listed at all is a perfect example as to why I do not do drive-by of actively investigated scenes. 8-/

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

There is only one anomaly we know. The $14,000 paid judgment that Denise had.

What was that about? And the $13,000 loan that did not go for septic and it does not look like a new roof from aerial view.

They did hire a very nice painting company and did not cheap out on that. But $13,000 is too much for painting

Definitely something to think about. I have no reason to suspect this but maybe medical bills or some other one-time large expense and she just got in over her head. Usually hospitals with work with you on a low interest, long term payment plan, though.

I will have to think about it.

 

[Mollyandme]

I agree with this post. You wrote that so well. I also hope he had a place prepared and is holding her there. I believe the abduction was planned for some period of time, organized. I don't see rage, I see efficient threat elimination of parents in an ambush, ignore dog. I think he lured the father to the door. He almost controlled the cell phones which are also a threat. I think Jayme made the 911 call, and I think he did not expect that to happen. He is so involved in his own fantasy of Jayme he thought she would be happy to see him.

I also hope he had a place prepared because that obviously increases the chances of her being alive. If this is the case that's why it's so crucial for people to come forward if someone is missing work, appts, etc. Unless this person wasn't working, lived alone, etc. This is JMO but I think she is still somewhere in Wisconsin.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Perhaps it's been mentioned, but I suspect LE and the FBI know who Jayme's with - they just don't know where she is.

If they have the perp's description and/or identity and he is alive they will eventually find him (and Jayme, if she is still alive and in his possession). If LE is under even the remote assumption that she is alive, they will bide their time until he is located and close in on him silently.

They won't publicly disclose the perp's description or identity because it wouldn't do Jayme any favors; rather, it would tip the perp off with the knowledge that if LE had managed to obtain his identity it would indicate his capture would be imminent. The disclosure of that information and the perp's knowledge of it would, of course, increase Jayme's risk of meeting an unhappy ending.

IMO, unless some clue pops up as to her whereabouts, I don't think there's much here that anyone can do other than speculate who took her and if LE already knows the perp's identity then it would be pointless. It is also unlikely that LE would publicly release his identity unless they find Jayme deceased, making futher speculation about the evidence they removed from the home also pointless (they won't release information they gathered from that, either). It goes without mentioning that if the perp reads forums that could turn things into a double-edged sword. My guess though is that he's keeping an eye on MSM for newly-released information. Would he dare the use of a mobile device to browse the web? I think not....definitely not his own, and not unless he wanted to risk sauntering into a Walmart and paying cash for a Tracfone. The dude does seem brazen enough to do it, and if he's as reliant on the Internet and social media as most people, he might think a baseball cap, stubby facial hair and frumpy shoes would suffice as a disguise.

Having said that, I'll leave it to the mods to decide whether my suspicions have any merit (I was very ambivalent about posting, but how else to get my message across?), and if so, whether to remove my post or even allow the discussion to continue....it might do more harm than good.

I'm just so worried for Jayme, and am concerned that with aggressive sleuthing, close-to-accurate details might become too public, hit too close to home with the perp and bring harm to Jayme and the investigation. There is a chance she's alive.

I often have some of those same worries...that speculation on forums such as this may cause potential harm, the opposite of what we actually intend.

 

[andreww]

Had that been the case, he could have easily beaten her or stabbed her to death. She’s a 13 year old girl, and it wouldn’t take a great deal of effort by a male of any size.

I think it’s far more likely that he took her, because he had other plans.

BBM Interesting how everyone assumes its a male.

 

[BRRI]

Horrible, but taking a 13 year old kid you didn't plan on is just way too difficult. Even if she's seen you, punch her in the face and leave. Hit her with the gun and knock her unconscious. I tend to think he wanted to take her and planned on it.

Confused on how that would work. She likely could identify the killer. Knocking her unconscious wouldn’t likely affect her ability to later identify him. If he raped her, his dna will be all over her (though, hopefully it would be on the bed/floor/couch too). But knocking her out wouldn’t solve that problem either.

 

[Megnut]

It wouldn't be logical for someone to have their bedside clock set behind, but I can't help but to think that, if the neighbor heard the gunshots at 12:38, and that was off by 7 minutes, in the other direction, that would place the gunshots at 12:45, which would narrow the gap before the 911 call at 12:53. Get in, get out. If there were multiple shots, more than just the two the neighbor heard, it is very possible there was no more ammo... to me, this has random written all over it, maybe even the wrong house, as others have speculated. Disorganized. Much will come down to how long the perpetrator or perpetrators were in the house. I am sick with worry.

 

[elektroangel]

There is only one anomaly we know. The $14,000 paid judgment that Denise had.

What was that about? And the $13,000 loan that did not go for septic and it does not look like a new roof from aerial view.

They did hire a very nice painting company and did not cheap out on that. But $13,000 is too much for painting

I'm sure that was for credit card debt, not a loan. You would be surprised what people put on their cards and what they rack up in debt. Plus there are no Capital One banks in Barron, or anywhere nearby. People in these communities tend to do all their banking locally.

It also mentions in the report that is was consolidation and they were working towards a settlement. Just because it says full satisfaction doesn't mean they paid the full amount.

 

[Gardener1850]

I just keep thinking about that door. That door was a heavy wood, solid door. Wouldn't they have heard the door being kicked in or hacked in or blown in by a gun? Wouldn't any of the 3 reach immediately for their phone and dial 911? That had to have scared them.
None of this makes sense to me. It could not have happened that way as you would think at least one of the 3 would have called 911 the with the first kick. It had to have taken some time to kick in the door and get to wherever they went. How could they have not dialed 911 sooner?

I speculated previously that perhaps the home landline/internet was cut by the perps and perhaps they could not get a good signal inside their house. That could also explain why the 911 call dropped and when the operator tried to call back she could not get through. Some locals said this area may not have good cell coverage but I have not seen it confirmed yet what cell coverage was like in their house or right there on the street. Can anyone find the nearest cell towers?

 

[oviedo]

I am very curious why a thorough search of the woods has not been done that I know of. I recall the drones but I wonder if there has been more than one tip that would make LE not search those woods? Just the 14 mile stretch last week. This is puzzling to me. Where is Jayme?

 

[Deleted member 278]

BBM Interesting how everyone assumes its a male.

Going by statistics.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

BBM. Lol!
On a serious note, have you sent the septic issues in as a tip? If they had to have it serviced a lot that could mean different companies and many individuals coming on their property that would know just what the house and lot looked like and may have seen Jayme getting off the bus or playing in the backyard. I don't know a thing about septic companies but if it is a low-income/high turn over profession our suspect could be someone who only visited the property once on a job and no longer works for the septic company. LE should be able to track all those people down who worked on the septic, but they might not be working on it without a tip. JMO.

Yup. Good point.

 

[Deleted member 278]

It wouldn't be logical for someone to have their bedside clock set behind, but I can't help but to think that, if the neighbor heard the gunshots at 12:38, and that was off by 7 minutes, in the other direction, that would place the gunshots at 12:45, which would narrow the gap before the 911 call at 12:53. Get in, get out. If there were multiple shots, more than just the two the neighbor heard, it is very possible there was no more ammo... to me, this has random written all over it, maybe even the wrong house, as others have speculated. Disorganized. Much will come down to how long the perpetrator or perpetrators were in the house. I am sick with worry.

JOAN SMREKAR, CLOSS` NEIGHBOR: We had come home about 11:30. We went to bed about quarter after 12:00. We were not sleeping and we heard the first shot and just a couple seconds is the second shot. And I asked my husband, I said, were those gunshots? Because they were so loud? And he said, yes, and he said, it`s a big gun and I rolled over and looked at the time on my clock, and it said 12:38. My clock is off by seven minutes per the Sheriff`s department, so this happened roughly around 12:30.

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

BBM. Lol!
On a serious note, have you sent the septic issues in as a tip? If they had to have it serviced a lot that could mean different companies and many individuals coming on their property that would know just what the house and lot looked like and may have seen Jayme getting off the bus or playing in the backyard. I don't know a thing about septic companies but if it is a low-income/high turn over profession our suspect could be someone who only visited the property once on a job and no longer works for the septic company. LE should be able to track all those people down who worked on the septic, but they might not be working on it without a tip. JMO.

Yes, I will contact them. It is a local Barron company that came every time.

 

[Bugurl747]

Hi all, First time poster here. I have read through all the threads and wanted to add my 0.02.

The frequent maintenance of the septic tank aligned with my initial thinking it could be a random person that got close to Jayme, some type of maintenance man that could observe Jayme and family dynamics. Was it the same guy that came to address the septic issue time after time? What was the background of the employee, could he have been a felon, drug addict, pedo, or with mental illness?
Maybe this worker fell in love with Jayme and witnessed what he perceived as ill treatment to her? Did she sit on the deck and watch him, started talking and he misconstrued the relationship? Wanted to rescue her? MOO

 

[oneangelinheaven]

Just saw the press release from the sheriff office where they are asking for 2000 volunteers tomorrow morning for another search.
Hopefully they are getting closer

ETA

Press Release-Need for Volunteers

October 22, 2018

Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald extends his appreciation to the community for their assistance in supplying tips as the search continues for missing & endangered 13 year old Jayme Closs of Barron, Wisconsin.

Once again, we are requesting the public’s assistance on Tuesday, October 23, 2018, in conducting an expanded routine search for articles of evidentiary value that may be related to the incident.

Two thousand volunteers are needed and should report to the staging area at 1883 Hwy 25, Barron WI, also known as The Hungry Hollow Grounds at the intersection of Hwy 25 and 19th Ave no later than 9:00 a.m. All volunteers must be registered at the staging area in order to participate in the search. Barron County officials will register all volunteers until 9:00 a.m., gates will close promptly at that time. We hope to be completed by 4pm.

Volunteers must be 18 years or older and present a picture form of identification. Volunteers must be able to walk on uneven terrain. Proper footwear (boots required) and cold weather clothing are required and may become dirty or stained.

Once we have 2,000 able-bodied volunteers, we will need to turn additional people away. Please continue to monitor Barron County Sheriff’s Office Facebook homepage and the FBI Milwaukee #FindJayme twitter postings, should we need additional volunteers in the future, we will make those requests via social media.

Please do not call, 2,000 volunteers is our maximum need at this time.

Continue to phone in tips, every tip is important:
1-855-744-3879

Per Chris Fitzgerald, Barron County Sheriff

 

[Inthedetails]

It is a possibilty that someone wanted to commit thrill killings and abducted Jayme to sexually assault her when they found her there.

Snipped by me.

Thrill kill for the sake of thrill kill is possibly the scariest of all motives, but I think it is one to consider seriously. In this case, it could have been a thrill kill with the bonus of a young female teen to assault.

Ugh. That was not pleasant to type or to think about.

Let this be the day for a break in the case.

jmo