WI WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - #1

[Samuke]

Above posts RSBM for focus..

Its easy to focus on him because of the other charges, but at the same time its ignoring other possibilities??..
Ummm, No, its not ignoring other possibilities..Just because we are discussing the fact that Kris Zocco is the only named POI does not in any way equal ignoring ALL OTHER POSSIBILITIES.. Kris Zocco at this point in time is the only named POI in Kelly's disappearance.. It does not mean that he is responsible, but it does leave him as an open, viable, and most significantly(for this convo) a "named" by LE, possible suspect/POI..

I have not seen anyone even allude to that somehow being indicative of automatic guilt.. What people are saying is that its definitely possible that he's involved... Other possibilities and avenues continue to be discussed as well.. And each of us are free to throw out as many possibilities as they want(so long as its within TOS) and discuss them as much, and for as long as they'd like..

Kris Zocco will continue to be discussed as a POI until he is ruled otherwise by LE..To discuss KZ as a POI does not mean that any/all other possibilities are being ignored..
------------------>>>>------------>>>>>
-->> Regarding all of the above issues that KZ was so honest and forthcoming with investigators and questioning why would a guilty man be admitting to so much??

Well, there is nothing at all indicative of KZ being this totally open book that you describe above wrt his being with Kelly.. You ask why would he even admit that she came home with him..why not just say she never even came home with him that night?..

I would say that its due to the fact that there were obvious issues that disallowed this known dishonest man from being completely dishonest about his contact with the victim.. Namely in the form of hard evidence such as the camera video footage we know exists.. Kinda hard to be a bold faced liar when faced with concrete evidence showing you and the missing victim together entering your apt.. How would even a liar lie about that?.. Pretty difficult when faced with proof positive of certain undeniable evidence of him with the victim..

Not to mention the fact that there are also witnesses that place Kris with the victim that night.. All major issues that would IMO make damn near impossible for the man to not admit to these issues that you make seem as tho, he opened up and was brazenly honest for his having nothing to hide.. I say to the contrary that its quite likely that the admissions were forced due to being faced with stone cold, hard evidence that disallowed for his to be dishonest about certain issues regarding Kelly.
-------------------->>>>>>> ----------->>>>>
-->>Regarding Kris Zocco having done something so stupid as to bring about such major attention on himself while knowing full well he was "running a known drug house" along with having built for himself quite a violent collection of toddler/baby *advertiser censored*.. So, why in the world would this man go and do something so stupid as "disappear"(aka murder/dispose of) a young woman without his having a decent alibi prepared???...???

Really, Samuke ?.. The fact that this man who runs a drug house and is into kiddie *advertiser censored* didn't make well thought out and rational decisions with a well prepared alibi to boot..this somehow makes it seem less likely that he is in any way involved in Kelly's "disappearance"??...

I'd say that the most likeliest scenario if Kris Zocco is indeed involved in Kelly's "disappearance" is that her death was NOT AT ALL, IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER planned and/or premeditated.. Just a hunch, but one that I'd definitely be willing to bet on if its found that KZ is involved.. IMO the fact that it wasn't planned or premeditated pretty much takes all of the above issue and throws it out the window wrt to the why, as in why would he do something knowing it'd bring great focus on him, his residence, and his lifestyle(which included drugs and child *advertiser censored*), without his having prepared a decent alibi???

IMO with just what tiny modicum we know about KZ I'd say, negative actions/behaviors breeding only more negative obstacles/hurdles which inevitably lead to only more serious/severe negative consequences for those actions/behaviors.. And so it goes in the sick cycle that rapidly picks up speed as it continues to deteriorate..accelerating into the death spiral at some point if not stopped or intervened.. IMO sadly Kelly got sucked into this madness by poor choices(no different than some of the poor choices that so very many of us made in our twenties, but lived to tell of it).. Whereas IMO if Kris is involved, I see it as Kelly's having had the grave misfortune of making some of those poor decisions/choices alongside someone whose own personal demons(as in KZ's own personal demons) ultimately cost Kelly her life..Jmo.

I think you misunderstood me regarding all this. I was honestly only commenting that I was concerned that no other leads had been mentioned or discussed. It's one thing for LE to not discuss what leads are, or any other indicators are, it's entirely another thing for there to be no discussion on their part regarding there actually being any other possibilities. Yes, KZ is a POI, but what about any other points that have been brought up, even in the general news?

Regarding the honesty factor of KZ, I'm not saying he's being absolutely honest, I'm questioning why somebody with a habit of lying, who most definitely wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves (for obvious reasons) would admit to anything in the first place. The fact that he admitted she was even there over night the last anyone had seen her (especially if he knows nobody had seen her since) puts him at the very center of everything. Given the drugs in his house, not to mention the CP (that can land him 400 years prison time), you'd think the guy would want to avoid the attention of LE for any reason.
EDIT (for clarity): When I say questioning, I mean in a more "wondering out loud" sort of way. And from my understanding of KZ he's not a stupid person, and the person who mentioned having lived there said the only ground exits had cameras. It seems fairly obvious if he didn't cart her (or something possibly containing her) out the door or garage, that he was thinking of the cameras at some point (provided he did anything, of course). Think about it this way: the same thing that makes him a major POI (her not seen exiting the building in any way, shape, or form) would be exactly the reason he'd want to lie about it. If he did something, he knew enough not to walk past the cameras, which implies he has the sense to realize that the cameras are there (and so show her coming in). Yet he admits to the fact that she not only came in, but spent the night. He doesn't distance himself at all from that fact and (if responsible for anything) knowing full well there were cameras there that would likely be checked and not show her leaving.

If this is true I am sorry that you have yet to meet someone with whom there is the wonderfully beautiful, deep and connected feeling of being "in love" with someone.. mind, body, and soul(and experiencing their being "in love" with you..mind, body, and soul)..

I honestly have to say it seems to me the other way around. If you truly love somebody, and have a connection with them, you trust them entirely, and know they'd never do anything intentionally hurtful, and you feel secure, not just in your relationship, but in yourself and in your significant other. If there are any doubts, or distrust, or insecurities, if there's no absolute feeling of trust, then there is most definitely no real love there. JMHO.

 

[Oploc2005]

Yes thank you for your support for a decade I have helped find those Missing in Wisconsin and will continue till I can no longer breath. This is in my heart and I know GOD has my hand in all my work with families

 

[Blessed2Bme]

:greetings: Welcome to Websleuths Chris. :websleuther:


:welcome5:



:wagon:


Now respectively,

:werk:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

My only honest issue with this is the question of why, if she believed herself and KZ to be dating in any official capacity, would she be talking to and meeting men from a dating site? That doesn't sound like she considered it a real relationship to me, or at least wasn't taking it seriously.

I thought I offered a plausible explanation in the same post you responded too.
Kelly probably grew tired of waiting for their relationship to grow (become more serious) and began to realize it probably never would.
Therefore, in her own way, she was backing away by trying to meet new guys.
Sometimes it takes awhile, when you're hoping for one outcome, to accept that it probably isn't going to happen.

If KZ really was an upstanding guy, educated with a $100,000 salary, what woman
(who had an attraction and clicked with him) wouldn't hope the relationship would eventually lead somewhere?
That's normal imo.
A person can think they love someone but, if the love isn't returned, realize they must take steps towards moving on.
I'm suggesting Kelly may have entered that phase in the relationship.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't think any of his supporters are hiding. Those that have given him the benefit of the doubt have been respectful to those that don't agree with them. I think we should be respectful towards them.

You're right. I get crabby sometimes. Sorry.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks Woe.Be.Gone for bringing up some valid points from Kelly's moms' point of view. I agree with your opinion 100%. My heart aches for her mother and she's totally right on to being disgusted and confused on why KZ is walking around here free while her daughter is missing and I'm adding (IMO) "on his watch". The other gf needs to speak up as well! But then again if this were taken to trial in the future loose lips could work against them. MOO

Thanks Blessed. Me too, my heart breaks for Kelly's mom and dad.
Also, in case my point was missed before (not by you), if KZ has someone who considers she's his girlfriend, she's probably been duped too.
He sounds more and more like a person who does what's good for him and tells people what they want to hear so they'll do what's good for him too. jimo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No one ever answered a question I've asked two times.
Knowing at least someone knows KZ personally, I find this odd.
Does KZ have a vehicle? Does he park it in the Apt. garage?
If not, how does he go to his mother's house in Richfield or anywhere outside of Milwaukee? He can afford to own a car and I bet he does.

 

[Oploc2005]

Yes CZ has a vehicle and yes it is parked in underground parking. There are some cameras in the building they are not the best and I am told that some are time lapsed. Also not once has LE confirmed they did not see KELLY leave APT that was reported by a source I know the family looked at some of the tapes but that was stopped by LE half way thru. Kelly last called family and friends on Wend then hung out with friend on Wend evening then she sent texts out Thursday during the day and one possible text Friday morning. Was she using her cell or was someone else she had iphone and from what we know it had lock on it. The police clearly have lot more then they can release. But its now over a month without a trace of Kelly I think its times to enlist F.B.I resources. I agree with top post this was not planned if KZ was involved he made split minute decisions and forgot the sick stuff he had hiding in the closet but that still does not tell us where Kelly is.

 

[Oploc2005]

I had hoped the billboards would help get us that one lead to get Kelly safely home. They haven't so far but now we will have those back up with a $10,000 reward on them shortly praying that just one person will come forward and tell us where Kelly Dwyer is! Someone has to know something and just maybe $$ will make then talk! Planning possible Candlelight Vigil in near future! Please continue to pray for Kelly and her family!

http://fox6now.com/2013/10/28/billboards-go-up-as-search-for-kelly-dwyer-enters-18th-day/

http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east...yer/-/10148890/22683316/-/ymw4w9/-/index.html

http://www.cbs58.com/news/top-stori...lly-Dwyer-search-229642511.html?m=y&smobile=y

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Oploc - LE has never said Kelly did not (can't be seen) leaving the building?

Why then is that one of the few 'facts' being reported by the media?

I'm too tired now and am going quit for the night. I could swear, early on, LE reported that there's no evidence of Kelly leaving the apartment building.

Also, I ran across a blurb on Google (spingolafiles) that KZ had his car cleaned (the word used was "portered") which is one reason LE decided to search the landfill. This is why I kept asking about KZ's car.
Never a good sign, when one's gf disappears, to have your vehicle detailed the next day.

 

[IronyDetective]

Oploc - LE has never said Kelly did not (can't be seen) leaving the building?

Why then is that one of the few 'facts' being reported by the media?

I'm too tired now and am going quit for the night. I could swear, early on, LE reported that there's no evidence of Kelly leaving the apartment building.

Also, I ran across a blurb on Google (spingolafiles) that KZ had his car cleaned (the word used was "portered") which is one reason LE decided to search the landfill. This is why I kept asking about KZ's car.
Never a good sign, when one's gf disappears, to have your vehicle detailed the next day.

Her Uncle is quoted in THIS article saying it...

"I've been to the building and talked to security,” explains her uncle, John Van Leur. “It doesn't show her leaving alive, deceased, or knocked out. They don't see it on any of the cameras."

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/L...-*advertiser censored*-charges-230638351.html

BUT I wonder ... how good are these security cameras? Especially at night? The quality of the Mexican border footage in the McStay case comes to mind. . .

 

[Samuke]

I thought I offered a plausible explanation in the same post you responded too.
Kelly probably grew tired of waiting for their relationship to grow (become more serious) and began to realize it probably never would.
Therefore, in her own way, she was backing away by trying to meet new guys.
Sometimes it takes awhile, when you're hoping for one outcome, to accept that it probably isn't going to happen.

If KZ really was an upstanding guy, educated with a $100,000 salary, what woman
(who had an attraction and clicked with him) wouldn't hope the relationship would eventually lead somewhere?
That's normal imo.
A person can think they love someone but, if the love isn't returned, realize they must take steps towards moving on.
I'm suggesting Kelly may have entered that phase in the relationship.

I don't quite understand this, I mean, if the case is that the relationship was going nowhere, and she was actively looking for (and seeing) other guys, at least on casual dates (seeing as it's a dating site), why would she continue to see KZ? Isn't that the same thing KZ is being accused of relationship-wise? It still says that, regardless of possible prior feelings regarding it, by that point she certainly didn't view any relationship with KZ as serious.

Yes CZ has a vehicle and yes it is parked in underground parking. There are some cameras in the building they are not the best and I am told that some are time lapsed. Also not once has LE confirmed they did not see KELLY leave APT that was reported by a source I know the family looked at some of the tapes but that was stopped by LE half way thru. Kelly last called family and friends on Wend then hung out with friend on Wend evening then she sent texts out Thursday during the day and one possible text Friday morning. Was she using her cell or was someone else she had iphone and from what we know it had lock on it. The police clearly have lot more then they can release. But its now over a month without a trace of Kelly I think its times to enlist F.B.I resources. I agree with top post this was not planned if KZ was involved he made split minute decisions and forgot the sick stuff he had hiding in the closet but that still does not tell us where Kelly is.

(My bolding for emphasis) This is actually HUGE information. Some of us have mentioned how some surveillance cameras aren't always reliable, and depending on how long of a time lapse, there's certainly the possibility of somebody leaving (in any form) and being missed by surveillance.

The average walk speed of a younger (below 65) adult is around 5 feet per second. Based on maps the towers seem to be 100-125 feet across. That's 20-25 seconds to walk from one end to the other. I don't imagine the elevators to exit are that far, I wonder if EastSideChick might say approximately how far the exits are from the elevators?

Oploc - LE has never said Kelly did not (can't be seen) leaving the building?

Why then is that one of the few 'facts' being reported by the media?

I'm too tired now and am going quit for the night. I could swear, early on, LE reported that there's no evidence of Kelly leaving the apartment building.

Also, I ran across a blurb on Google (spingolafiles) that KZ had his car cleaned (the word used was "portered") which is one reason LE decided to search the landfill. This is why I kept asking about KZ's car.
Never a good sign, when one's gf disappears, to have your vehicle detailed the next day.

I remember them saying they don't see her leaving the building somewhere too, but the news also reported that 20 some cameras from nearby buildings didn't show anything. Problem with the media is they tend to word things in a way that can easily be taken to mean one thing instead of another. To say you can't see something on surveillance can mean that (constant) surveillance doesn't show anything, or it can mean that they just happened to not see something because the cameras weren't looking at the desired location (like with area buildings that likely didn't show outside the entrance), or because of something like a time delay, or a system that switches from one location to another every so many seconds.

 

[bwt42]

Her Uncle is quoted in THIS article saying it...

"I've been to the building and talked to security,” explains her uncle, John Van Leur. “It doesn't show her leaving alive, deceased, or knocked out. They don't see it on any of the cameras."

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/L...-*advertiser censored*-charges-230638351.html

BUT I wonder ... how good are these security cameras? Especially at night? The quality of the Mexican border footage in the McStay case comes to mind. . .

620wtmj on 10-18 stated " a source close to the investigation says surveillance video shows the 27 year old entering the building but no video of her leaving."

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I had hoped the billboards would help get us that one lead to get Kelly safely home. They haven't so far but now we will have those back up with a $10,000 reward on them shortly praying that just one person will come forward and tell us where Kelly Dwyer is! Someone has to know something and just maybe $$ will make then talk! Planning possible Candlelight Vigil in near future! Please continue to pray for Kelly and her family!

http://fox6now.com/2013/10/28/billboards-go-up-as-search-for-kelly-dwyer-enters-18th-day/

http://www.wisncom/news/south-east-...yer/-/10148890/22683316/-/ymw4w9/-/index.html

http://www.cbs58.com/news/top-stori...lly-Dwyer-search-229642511.html?m=y&smobile=y

Those billboards look very effective! :thumb:

thanks! :seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Oploc - LE has never said Kelly did not (can't be seen) leaving the building?

Why then is that one of the few 'facts' being reported by the media?

I'm too tired now and am going quit for the night. I could swear, early on, LE reported that there's no evidence of Kelly leaving the apartment building.

Also, I ran across a blurb on Google (spingolafiles) that KZ had his car cleaned (the word used was "portered") which is one reason LE decided to search the landfill. This is why I kept asking about KZ's car.
Never a good sign, when one's gf disappears, to have your vehicle detailed the next day.

I agree...

These two points need to be clarified...

1) Was Kelly NOT seen leaving KZ's apartment/building by her own volition...
(Note: Due to reporting I assumed this was a FACT)

2) Does KZ have a car? where is it kept?
(I believe Oploc answered this question above... )
- it would be interesting to know if KZ had his car detailed soon after Kelly's disappearance...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

620wtmj on 10-18 stated " a source close to the investigation says surveillance video shows the 27 year old entering the building but no video of her leaving."

Thank you for the source of this information, Bwt! :seeya:

 

[mke2013]

Oploc - LE has never said Kelly did not (can't be seen) leaving the building?

Why then is that one of the few 'facts' being reported by the media?

I'm too tired now and am going quit for the night. I could swear, early on, LE reported that there's no evidence of Kelly leaving the apartment building.

Also, I ran across a blurb on Google (spingolafiles) that KZ had his car cleaned (the word used was "portered") which is one reason LE decided to search the landfill. This is why I kept asking about KZ's car.
Never a good sign, when one's gf disappears, to have your vehicle detailed the next day.

It's not common practice for him to get his car detailed! I've been in his vehicles many times and, believe me, they were never freshly cleaned. This is actually very upsetting to me. The only thing that would put my mind at ease is if his car lease was coming to an end. From what I know about his car purchases, the timing actually fits to some extent.

 

[Samuke]

It's not common practice for him to get his car detailed! I've been in his vehicles many times and, believe me, they were never freshly cleaned. This is actually very upsetting to me. The only thing that would put my mind at ease is if his car lease was coming to an end. From what I know about his car purchases, the timing actually fits to some extent.

Portering can also mean to perform minor maintenance on, or to simply move for somebody.

 

[mke2013]

I don't quite understand this, I mean, if the case is that the relationship was going nowhere, and she was actively looking for (and seeing) other guys, at least on casual dates (seeing as it's a dating site), why would she continue to see KZ? Isn't that the same thing KZ is being accused of relationship-wise? It still says that, regardless of possible prior feelings regarding it, by that point she certainly didn't view any relationship with KZ as serious.

Samuke, you don't understand women AT ALL. I'll just assume you are young and/or inexperienced because you are truly lacking insight into female feelings, actions, etc. Please do not take this as an insult in any way. There is nothing wrong with being either young or inexperienced (or male). That goes without saying. Please be aware though that your words are becoming frustrating to older, experienced, WOMEN. We know more about how other women could feel in a situation than you.

 

[Samuke]

Samuke, you don't understand women AT ALL. I'll just assume you are young and/or inexperienced because you are truly lacking insight into female feelings, actions, etc. Please do not take this as an insult in any way. There is nothing wrong with being either young or inexperienced (or male). That goes without saying. Please be aware though that your words are becoming frustrating to older, experienced, WOMEN. We know more about how other women could feel in a situation than you.

I'm not really young (in my 30s), nor inexperienced, and also grew up in a household of all females, so I'd dare say I likely know more about women than most men in general, especially given that I'm still on quite friendly terms with most of my exes.

My entire point with that statement you quoted was that calling KZ bad for possibly seeing other women, yet dismissing KD definitely seeing other men was hypocritical. It doesn't matter if she had viewed the relationship with KZ as serious at some point, if she was seeing men (which, according to the mother, was certainly the case) then she was not being exclusive, and therefor did not consider a relationship with KZ to be serious. Either that or she was pointedly cheating on him (if she considered it to be a romantic relationship), and to say that it's acceptable for her to do so, and demonize KZ for the same behavior (other behavior notwithstanding, i.e. drugs and CP) is very hypocritical. If anything, such behavior should be viewed as possible motive for her disappearance (note I state motive, not, I repeat: NOT, justification).

Edit: by motive I mean to state that KZ found out she was seeing other men, or she told him that she did not intend to have a (possibly further) romantic relationship with him.