WI - Teresa Marie Halbach, 25, Manitowoc, 31 Oct 2005

[concernedperson]

Thanks JOA, I had been wonderering what the circumstances of the attack were. That explains it fully and it also explains why she thought Avery was Allen. It doesn't preclude Avery from being a rape pal in this episode.

 

[newtv]

The thing is with the victim...she didn't say anyone else was involved. The cops set their sites on Avery right away and put him in a police line-up where she identified him...twice I think. Problem was he was the shortest-blondest guy there and the victim said Avery looks very much like Allen..

I see-just a weird coincidence i guess that the victim and avery had similar dna.

 

[joanofarc]

Thanks JOA, I had been wonderering what the circumstances of the attack were. That explains it fully and it also explains why she thought Avery was Allen. It doesn't preclude Avery from being a rape pal in this episode.

Except he had 14 witnesses that said he was out shopping that day with his family...most of his alibi was given by family members but some I think were store keepers (perhaps receipts he had) that proved he was where he said he was.....yet they went ahead and convicted him anyway...that just goes to show you that the cops thought this guy was a willing and able person to commit this crime.....a time bomb waiting to go off....and, unfortunately he did, some 20 years later.....how sad

 

[cheko1]

Did you notice alot of the women that are missing have tatoos....that is very interesting and might point to one killer....hmmmm

I bet LE is really going to investigate this with so many missing.
I thank God they brought in the investigators from Jeffrey Dahmer's case.

LE might have alot of work ahead of them. This case has some really whacked out sick stuff. Her poor family........

 

[joanofarc]

I bet LE is really going to investigate this with so many missing.
I thank God they brought in the investigators from Jeffrey Dahmer's case.

LE might have alot of work ahead of them. This case has some really whacked out sick stuff. Her poor family........

Oh THANKS, I read that cheko and kind of blew it off till you brought it back to my attention....now I am wondering more and more what was found on that property.....blood in buildings, spattered all over cars in the yard....muscle, skin tissues....this seems that there is more than just Teresa's murder being investigated....IMO

 

[aussiegran]

Except he had 14 witnesses that said he was out shopping that day with his family...most of his alibi was given by family members but some I think were store keepers (perhaps receipts he had) that proved he was where he said he was.....yet they went ahead and convicted him anyway...that just goes to show you that the cops thought this guy was a willing and able person to commit this crime.....a time bomb waiting to go off....and, unfortunately he did, some 20 years later.....how sad

:liar: well we can discount the familys alibi for him IMO .does he closely resemble any of his brothers .maybe the shopkeepers saw one of them?this rape he was found innocent of needs to be thoroughly checked out again.
Did allen admit to the rape? I realise most rapist say they are not guilty but just wondered.

 

[mssheila]

I see-just a weird coincidence i guess that the victim and avery had similar dna.

I wonder what the odds are of that? :banghead:

 

[hoppyfrog]

The thing is with the victim...she didn't say anyone else was involved. The cops set their sites on Avery right away and put him in a police line-up where she identified him...twice I think. Problem was he was the shortest-blondest guy there and the victim said Avery looks very much like Allen..

This is what I understand happened with the lineups: LE told the victim that they think they knew who committed the rape. They showed her a photo lineup with SA in it. Then they showed her a "live" lineup with SA in it. The problem was, SA was in both lineups but ALL the others in the lineups were different. Therefore, it was easy for the victim to conclude that SA was the one the cops suspected, since he was the ONLY one in both lineups. Very poor prodedure on the part of LE.

Hoppy

 

[cheko1]

Except he had 14 witnesses that said he was out shopping that day with his family...most of his alibi was given by family members but some I think were store keepers (perhaps receipts he had) that proved he was where he said he was.....yet they went ahead and convicted him anyway...that just goes to show you that the cops thought this guy was a willing and able person to commit this crime.....a time bomb waiting to go off....and, unfortunately he did, some 20 years later.....how sad

I could see his family lieing for him about shopping or giving him there store reciepts. I'm sure the jurors had enough evidence to feel they convicted the right man.

After reading the story on the lady he supposedly raped can you imagine the turmoil her life is in today???? Poor lady was /is lucky he never killed her then.

I'm with newt also on the dna eveidence.

 

[cheko1]

Thanks hoppy that makes sense!

 

[concernedperson]

I could see his family lieing for him about shopping or giving him there store reciepts. I'm sure the jurors had enough evidence to feel they convicted the right man.

After reading the story on the lady he supposedly raped can you imagine the turmoil her life is in today???? Poor lady was /is lucky he never killed her then.

I'm with newt also on the dna eveidence.

Agree about the family. We may hear more about them. I am glad they didn't kill the rape victim too. She must be thanking her lucky stars today.

 

[strach304]

Aha! Exactly what I had suggested way back when questioning the hair evidence that exonerated Avery, did the victim lose consciousness? I think it would be prudent to consider other possibilities. The Allen guy is also a sexual predator for sure but aren't they both from the same area? The victim's statements now that sound as if she was so misled by LE are reflective of someone who feels horendous guilt from having been wrong in id'ing her attacker.

I still support the innocence project but are they so fanatical in their beliefs (like DP objectors) that they can't see the sky for the clouds? A review of his past criminal offenses imo should've made him an unlikely person to be released back into society. I get so tired of seeing LE blamed for doing their job, after all they are trying to protect the community and they had this animal figured for exactly what he is.

 

[joanofarc]

:liar: well we can discount the familys alibi for him IMO .does he closely resemble any of his brothers .maybe the shopkeepers saw one of them?this rape he was found innocent of needs to be thoroughly checked out again.
Did allen admit to the rape? I realise most rapist say they are not guilty but just wondered.

I found this that said Allen was never tried for the rape because Penny didn't want to press charges against him...he was in jail anyway for 60 years...but WTH...I wonder what she feels like today, poor woman....more confused than ever I bet!!

http://tillerstillers.blogspot.com/


Gregory Allen's DNA was found on the 1985 rape victim. In 1985 Allen, who was later imprisoned for sexual offenses against other women, lived in the same area that Steven Avery did. I wonder if Allen and Avery knew each other. If so, I wonder if they spent time together. If so, I wonder .... Gregory Allen was not tried for the 1985 rape of Penny Beerntsen because, a prosecutor said, Ms. Beernsten did not want to press charges against Allen. In 2003, when Avery was released from prison, Allen was still in imprisoned; he had been sentenced to prison for 60 years for sex crimes against other women. I wonder if Allen and Avery met while they were both imprisoned in Wisconsin.

 

[joanofarc]

This is what I understand happened with the lineups: LE told the victim that they think they knew who committed the rape. They showed her a photo lineup with SA in it. Then they showed her a "live" lineup with SA in it. The problem was, SA was in both lineups but ALL the others in the lineups were different. Therefore, it was easy for the victim to conclude that SA was the one the cops suspected, since he was the ONLY one in both lineups. Very poor prodedure on the part of LE.

Hoppy

Thanks hoppy...you explained it way better than me...I even understand it now....LOL....

Wow if you didn't know better it looks like Steve was railroaded by the police....probably the deputy's wife having the gun pointed at her was a huge, red flag for L.E....also knowing that Steve was a few bricks short of a load didn't help either....they KNEW he was a problem and did everything they could to put him away...unfortunately, for not long enough....IMO

 

[lessabeth]

The Manitowoc Police Department stayed out of this because of the lawsuit...

The car was basically "shrinkwrapped" and no one from Manitowoc Co. or Calumet County examined anything. This is so the defense can't come back with "someone set him up"...everything was sent to Madison Crime Lab...

My sister can't believe this man was in her house when she was home alone about a month ago...oh my..............

I will be going to this trial....

I would like to try and attend some days also...I am in Waukesha and it will depend on my school/child care schedule.... I will let you know if I am going, maybe we can get some coffee or something.

 

[Researcher]

Thanks Chico...that talks about possible accomplices...but does it mention that bones/human remains were found in some of the cars that were searched....I was sure I read that!!!

Here's the article re "Additional evidence, including human bones, was found in other vehicles":
http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov05/370609.asp

 

[lessabeth]

Am I seeing this right? The DNA under her nails had SA's DNA... maybe???? What on earth? How was his conviction overturned if that's the case?

No, the DNA under her nails had some of the same markers as both her own DNA and Steven Avery's DNA. Therefore, that was not enough to exclude him.

 

[Lady GL]

• Investigators also seized Avery's home computer because they believe that "images of *advertiser censored*, torture and death may be relevant" to motive of any sexual crimes against Halbach.

What images? I hope not of HER! I hope he didnt take pictures. Please let that not be true.

I saw read and became sick to my stomach...no one would even do this to a dog. Avery is a sick ****. He did not have clean hands when he was arrested for rape and wrongly served 18 years for that crime. But, the LE knew him, knew his family and also knew he was a problem. As someone else posted, his rape trial was light years before DNA and they did the best they could with the evidence they had. Trying to force a woman at gun point in a car, setting cats on fire, it's a pattern plain and simple that this was a very dangerous man just waiting to erupt.....

 

[Researcher]

Photos of Gregory Allen:
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep03/allenbig092503.jpg
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep03/allenbig091103.jpg

Photos of Steven Avery:
http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/5280723/detail.html#
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/051110/480/wxs10411102210

And BTW:
Photo of SA's son, Steve:
http://www.jsonline.com/site/slideshow.asp?slideshowid=160&SlideOrder=15

SA's brother Earl:
http://www.jsonline.com/site/slideshow.asp?slideshowid=160&SlideOrder=11

SA's brother Charles/Chuck:
http://wfrv.com/topstories/local_story_316163022.html

And 1 of my favorites, a very touching photo of SA crying (sob, sob...he really knows how to play to an audience...anything to make sure others know what a total a$$, er, victim he is)..."Steven Avery wipes away tears:sick: while talking about his 18 years in prison" :boohoo: :
http://www.jsonline.com/site/slideshow.asp?slideshowid=160&SlideOrder=14

 

[Mr. E]

RE: the 1985 rape that incarcerated Steve Avery --

* DNA was found under her fingerprints that could not conclusively implicate Avery, right? Creating a reasonable doubt?
* Definite DNA evidence implicating this guy Allen was found
* Avery was freed and Allen was already in prison
* But -- didn't the woman say she was attacked, then lost consciousness during the rape itself? Maybe Avery and Allen BOTH raped her. Did they know each other? Maybe he WAS guilty and just got out on a technicality, causing Teresa Halbach her life


OR maybe I'm reading something wrong, which wouldn't surprise me. I would make such a terrible juror. I'd be the one that had to look everything over again and again!