Will the Long Island Serial Killer ever be caught?

[The Nomad]

(Here's part of the article; it does say 2.)
CRAIGSLIST MURDER RAMPAGE; INTERNET-AD FIEND DUMPED FOUR BODIES ON LI
Crowley, Kieran; Mollica, Joe; Margolin, Josh. New York Post; New York, N.Y. [New York, N.Y]15 Dec 2010: 4.


It looks like around December 18th it started being reported that 4 were in burlap.

MYSTERY AT THE BEACH: A week later, cops confounded
Dooley, Emily C. Newsday, Combined editions; Long Island, N.Y. [Long Island, N.Y]18 Dec 2010: A.5.


Notice the language "sources told Newsday." Depending on who those sources were, this could be a myth that originated with this article.

Or it could be a correction to a previously incorrect article.

Someone should contact Crowley for confirmation whether he still believes it was two or if he got it wrong and it was four.

 

[maddalena1]

Why the burlap? I wonder if the burlap has to do with the killer's age like burlap was used a lot around the time my mother was growing up which would date him as being a least 75 years old.
Or does the burlap have a more personal (sexual) meaning to the killer?
Please let me know your thoughts!

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Burlap for camouflage

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[PictureSnatcher]

Ah well that complicates matters somewhat. However a simple 'he passed away last year from Leukemia' would have sufficed. Not everyone is a local.

What does locality have to do with it? I'm only aware of the fact he died because I've been researching the case a long time and he has wrote a couple important articles on the topic

 

[DQN]

What does locality have to do with it? I'm only aware of the fact he died because I've been researching the case a long time and he has wrote a couple important articles on the topic

Locality has a lot to do with knowing whether or not Crowley passed away. He was a local guy from Bellmore Long Island, his death was written up in the Newsday and NY Post and the NY Papers. He was also a writer in our local NY Papers: NY Post, NY Times, Newsday. It has nothing to do with researching the case for a long time.

If a writer died in California covering the East Area Rapist How the hell would I know living in NY even though I follow the case? I don't follow the obituaries that I can tell you! But you can be sure the locals in Sacramento rapists areas would know, they would read in their local newspapers.

I see you took your sarcastic pills today.

 

[DaisyChains]

Why the burlap? I wonder if the burlap has to do with the killer's age like burlap was used a lot around the time my mother was growing up which would date him as being a least 75 years old.
Or does the burlap have a more personal (sexual) meaning to the killer?
Please let me know your thoughts!

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For convenience (it is something he has access to) and concealment (to safely transport and transfer the remains). JMO

 

[DQN]

For convenience (it is something he has access to) and concealment (to safely transport and transfer the remains). JMO

I think it was there. he used it, It worked out. It blended with the terrain so he used it again. I don't think he had a big plan in place to use burlap, I think it just happened. He wanted to dump the body quickly; he found it in his garage or yard or had access to it immediately. He was happy he didn't have to go to a store and buy a storage bin or plastic bags and leave any camera trails. He was probably patting himself on the back for the burlap idea.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Locality has a lot to do with knowing whether or not Crowley passed away. He was a local guy from Bellmore Long Island, his death was written up in the Newsday and NY Post and the NY Papers. He was also a writer in our local NY Papers: NY Post, NY Times, Newsday. It has nothing to do with researching the case for a long time.

I see you took your sarcastic pills today.

Right yea that's true his death was in the new York papers and locals would be more likely to be aware of it. Or simple google of Kieran Crowley and the first hit is bingo

 

[DQN]

Right yea that's true his death was in the new York papers and locals would be more likely to be aware of it. Or simple google of Kieran Crowley and the first hit is bingo

Oh yeah everyone googles peoples names all the time to check to see if they are dead. At 66 you assume he is alive, he had an untimely death.

 

[LetThemEatCake]

There are a number of things that suggest the older remains are related. For one they are all the work of a serial killer who has targeted sex workers such as Jessica Taylor & the G4. Two, they are all dumped on the same stretch of road. The timeline flows from the Butcher victims to the G4, 96, 97, 00, 03, 05 (Asian Male) then 07, 09, 10. And if only 2 victims were in burlap, it's very unlikely they were dumped without being covered with some material. That's why I think the two G4 were in garbage bags, just like the early victims. And don't forget that key word. Jane Doe 1996's legs on Fire Island are described as "wrapped in garbage bags" by the LIPress. Peaches is wrapped in plastic inside the tub and her daughter is wrapped in a blanket. Dormer says Jane Doe is wrapped in plastic bags in 2000 in Manorville. And Jessica Taylor's torso is again wrapped in plastic in 2003. Then the two G4 wrapped in burlap. They are all wrapped

They were not all wrapped and again, stop spreading misinformation.

 

[LR1]

there is MO evidence on how these victims were chosen and disposed of that clearly distinguishes LISK victims from unrelated victims.

Speaking only of the 2 manorville female victims and the GB4. I get that there are differences in disposal and what was done postmortem and I'll give you the street walker vs the craigslist way of choosing the victims but its hard to ignore the fact that JT and Maureen went missing from the same area and were found or parts found 40 plus miles away in relatively close proximity. I'll also note they were both obviously killed by a serial killer.

The MO seems to be luring in prostitutes so that he can kill them. The different signatures could be seen as becoming more proficient in his disposal techniques. It's much easier and less risky to drop a body off than to dismember and drop of parts in different places. We know he did different things to them after killing them but we can't say they were treated any differently while he had them. I think it's noteworthy that there is no overlap in these signatures, no arrest and the killings seem to have stopped.

With what we have to work with I guess it comes down to peoples opinion of the likelihood it being two serial killers procuring and disposing very similar victims in the same place or a single killer that over time had evolved.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

They were not all wrapped and again, stop spreading misinformation.

Really? Because 1996 FI Legs, Peaches, Jane Doe, Jessica Taylor, the toddler & the Gilgo 4 were wrapped.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Oh yeah everyone googles peoples names all the time to check to see if they are dead. At 66 you assume he is alive, he had an untimely death.

How would anyone know Crowley's age without googling him?

 

[maddalena1]

Speaking only of the 2 manorville female victims and the GB4. I get that there are differences in disposal and what was done postmortem and I'll give you the street walker vs the craigslist way of choosing the victims but its hard to ignore the fact that JT and Maureen went missing from the same area and were found or parts found 40 plus miles away in relatively close proximity. I'll also note they were both obviously killed by a serial killer.

The MO seems to be luring in prostitutes so that he can kill them. The different signatures could be seen as becoming more proficient in his disposal techniques. It's much easier and less risky to drop a body off than to dismember and drop of parts in different places. We know he did different things to them after killing them but we can't say they were treated any differently while he had them. I think it's noteworthy that there is no overlap in these signatures, no arrest and the killings seem to have stopped.

With what we have to work with I guess it comes down to peoples opinion of the likelihood it being two serial killers procuring and disposing very similar victims in the same place or a single killer that over time had evolved.

One killer is my opinion

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[mraccountant]

The Nomad - Thanks for the reply

Honestly, in my experience and based on members of the FBI now thinking the Manorville murders are connected to Gilgo Beach... I never thought the same person have done this but the similarity in area, the similarity in victim profiles gives me reason to believe they are connected but using different techniques. I think the Manorville incidents and the gilgo incidents were done by a team - I have thought the moment the investigation rolled out that it was a team and moreover I think it may be a father/son situation , Its my belief that the father was more of a sadist and likes the idea of pain and torture , whereas it would make sense if its a team that a son or submissive partner would lack that attribute due to abuse and psychological terror due to the relationship and uses his psyche to sweet talk and lure his victims, making them believe he's this gentleman to dismantle any guard that his victim has up - i believe he thinks he's the ultimate gentleman in his head, but he's a product of his chemistry - he has to control every minute and person in his life - when he dismantles their alarms he shows his sociopathic intentions , control is everything. He had no control with his counterpart so now his life is built around control, including how he kills these women - he suffocates them, brings them back to life, suffocates them again, brings them back to life and so on and so on. The control over the life or death of these women is ultimately the control he seeks - its like a hit of heroin - a high that lives on and on. He is playing god.

 

[The Nomad]

The Nomad - Thanks for the reply

Honestly, in my experience and based on members of the FBI now thinking the Manorville murders are connected to Gilgo Beach... I never thought the same person have done this but the similarity in area, the similarity in victim profiles gives me reason to believe they are connected but using different techniques. I think the Manorville incidents and the gilgo incidents were done by a team - I have thought the moment the investigation rolled out that it was a team and moreover I think it may be a father/son situation , Its my belief that the father was more of a sadist and likes the idea of pain and torture , whereas it would make sense if its a team that a son or submissive partner would lack that attribute due to abuse and psychological terror due to the relationship and uses his psyche to sweet talk and lure his victims, making them believe he's this gentleman to dismantle any guard that his victim has up - i believe he thinks he's the ultimate gentleman in his head, but he's a product of his chemistry - he has to control every minute and person in his life - when he dismantles their alarms he shows his sociopathic intentions , control is everything. He had no control with his counterpart so now his life is built around control, including how he kills these women - he suffocates them, brings them back to life, suffocates them again, brings them back to life and so on and so on. The control over the life or death of these women is ultimately the control he seeks - its like a hit of heroin - a high that lives on and on. He is playing god.

Aaaaannd... Back on topic finally.

IF they are connected, then I'm not sure whether it's one or two. I don't think it could be more than two as someone would let something slip. You talk about father and son, but what about Brothers, where one is dominant (usually older), the other compliant and more submissive? There is no evidence pointing this at the moment though, other than different disposal methods at different periods of time.Going back to the brothers theory for a moment, and again I stress there is no evidence pointing to this other than some of the bodies as pointed out by our dear friend PictureSnatcher appear to be located near at SCWA locations both used and disused, and a POIs brother just happens to work for said authority. It could be coincidence entirely.

I don't believe all the remains are the work of the same killer, some could be one off murders, some gang related, but because of the locality of the discovery, it muddies the waters. I think that's perhaps why LTEC is intent on focusing on the GB4 solely.

 

[maddalena1]

The Nomad - Thanks for the reply

Honestly, in my experience and based on members of the FBI now thinking the Manorville murders are connected to Gilgo Beach... I never thought the same person have done this but the similarity in area, the similarity in victim profiles gives me reason to believe they are connected but using different techniques. I think the Manorville incidents and the gilgo incidents were done by a team - I have thought the moment the investigation rolled out that it was a team and moreover I think it may be a father/son situation , Its my belief that the father was more of a sadist and likes the idea of pain and torture , whereas it would make sense if its a team that a son or submissive partner would lack that attribute due to abuse and psychological terror due to the relationship and uses his psyche to sweet talk and lure his victims, making them believe he's this gentleman to dismantle any guard that his victim has up - i believe he thinks he's the ultimate gentleman in his head, but he's a product of his chemistry - he has to control every minute and person in his life - when he dismantles their alarms he shows his sociopathic intentions , control is everything. He had no control with his counterpart so now his life is built around control, including how he kills these women - he suffocates them, brings them back to life, suffocates them again, brings them back to life and so on and so on. The control over the life or death of these women is ultimately the control he seeks - its like a hit of heroin - a high that lives on and on. He is playing god.

Exceptional theory articulated well.

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[maddalena1]

The Nomad - Thanks for the reply

Honestly, in my experience and based on members of the FBI now thinking the Manorville murders are connected to Gilgo Beach... I never thought the same person have done this but the similarity in area, the similarity in victim profiles gives me reason to believe they are connected but using different techniques. I think the Manorville incidents and the gilgo incidents were done by a team - I have thought the moment the investigation rolled out that it was a team and moreover I think it may be a father/son situation , Its my belief that the father was more of a sadist and likes the idea of pain and torture , whereas it would make sense if its a team that a son or submissive partner would lack that attribute due to abuse and psychological terror due to the relationship and uses his psyche to sweet talk and lure his victims, making them believe he's this gentleman to dismantle any guard that his victim has up - i believe he thinks he's the ultimate gentleman in his head, but he's a product of his chemistry - he has to control every minute and person in his life - when he dismantles their alarms he shows his sociopathic intentions , control is everything. He had no control with his counterpart so now his life is built around control, including how he kills these women - he suffocates them, brings them back to life, suffocates them again, brings them back to life and so on and so on. The control over the life or death of these women is ultimately the control he seeks - its like a hit of heroin - a high that lives on and on. He is playing god.

I have always felt it was one killer or a group of men but still one mindset. This is the first that I heard that the FBI thinks so too. It came to me the other day that the FBI is starting to figure it out. It will give peace when lady justice is served. Thanks again for this post.

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[DaisyChains]

Allegedly Bitrolff lived in Manorville and worked at times in Oak beach area. I would wonder if perhaps he is connected to the victims with BOTH Manorville AND Oak Beach connections.

At any rate if you do not believe Bitrolff is LISK, then you must resign yourself to the fact that Bitrolff was 1 of at least 2 Serial Killers operating on/around Long Island between the early 90's until 2010's. This is a harsh reality we all must face - that there can be more than one predator prowling a pride for prey. Wow that was some unintentional alliteration there. Hehe

It seems with the Gilgo Beach victim MB that only one person sounding like a middle aged white man kept calling to harass her sister Amanda. That signals to me that likely only one middle aged white man is involved. Doesn't seem like I remember ever hearing that LISK spoke to Amanda from a "we" perspective ("We have your sister" "We think she is a ____"). I feel like if LISK (IMO the killer of the 4 girls on Gilgo) involved more than one person somebody would have shown their cards by now. JMO

Only one likely middle aged white man allegedly called MBB's friend to harass her.

Only one likely middle aged white man allegedly called Johnny Terry to harass him about MB.

 

[DQN]

How would anyone know Crowley's age without googling him?

I don't have to google Crowley I remember reading about his death at 66 from a blood disorder. In more than one paper.

Your only kidding ? Rudeness is a weak persons imitation of strength Picture Snatcher. It's also your passive aggressive behavior to make excuses when you are outright mean and hurtful to people on this board.

Does it make you feel better about yourself to put other posters down ? What they have to say is important to them perhaps you should listen instead of being belligerent.

A forum is a place for discussing opinions whether you agree with them or not. It is not for your batting practice.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

I feel perhaps a mountain is being made out of a molehill but for the sake of getting the discussion back on topic & in an effort to keep things civil and friendly, I'm not going to respond to this . Instead I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and go look at funny stock photos.
:up: