Witness accounts

[jjenny]

Only he didn't claim he was attacked "where sidewalks meet." Now, this is hearsay, since the story was told by the father, but the father claimed Trayvon came from where the sidewalks meet and asked Zimmerman a question.

 

[Just K]

According to the pictures I believe that it happened right behind John's unit which is the 2nd from the end. The end unit has the enclosed porch. So when John says 30ft maybe he meant 30ft in front of him from his bathroom window looking down at them on the ground?

Something occurs to me, we have seen the personal items strewn down the grassy area from the T in the sidewalks BUT, has there been any mention of the grass being torn up in any one area?

 

[Zak]

Anyone notice that the chasing this witness described was in the direction of the T?

One thing's for certain, it would have to be before they got to THIS spot:

I wonder how this will play out for a jury that's heard GZ's statements about "walking back to his vehicle", and being attacked by Trayvon, "where the sidewalks meet"?

I wonder if they'll notice the body, shown above, is already SIXTY THREE FEET away from "where the sidewalks meet"?

Concerned Papa, have you come across a picture of the where the cell phone, flashlight and key's were found and how close they were to the sidewalk or T? I've seen pictures of the items with the LE markers, but haven't seen one along with the sidewalk. I think I remember reading in the docs that LE said they were found near the T, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. TIA

 

[Nova]

Well it appears "John's" story is starting to crumble.

A key witness to the Trayvon Martin shooting changed the story he had given Sanford, Fla., police, telling state authorities he was not sure who was screaming during the altercation with George Zimmerman, NBC Dateline confirmed Friday.

The man known as Witness #6 originally told Sanford police Zimmerman cried for help. The witness stuck to his account that he saw Martin, 17, straddling Zimmerman and pinning him to the ground before Martin was shot.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story

Thank you, Doc. That's what I've been saying all along, that most of us would just assume the person on the bottom of a scuffle in the dark was doing the screaming. But if TM had seen the gun by then, he might well have been screaming and trying to get the gun away from GZ, even while on the top.

 

[Just K]

Anyone notice that the chasing this witness described was in the direction of the T?

One thing's for certain, it would have to be before they got to THIS spot:

I wonder how this will play out for a jury that's heard GZ's statements about "walking back to his vehicle", and being attacked by Trayvon, "where the sidewalks meet"?

I wonder if they'll notice the body, shown above, is already SIXTY THREE FEET away from "where the sidewalks meet"?

So, would it be fair to say that Travon died on the west side of the courtyard and almost on top of the fourth white square grate/utility marker?

If so the flashlight, the keys, his phone and the tan bag were North of him and toward the "T"? Is that correct?

 

[stmarysmead]

Thank you, Doc. That's what I've been saying all along, that most of us would just assume the person on the bottom of a scuffle in the dark was doing the screaming. But if TM had seen the gun by then, he might well have been screaming and trying to get the gun away from GZ, even while on the top.

He still affirms Martin was on top...and GZ's broken nose and other injuries confirm the beating. Stories that "change"after much interrogation and pressure are very typical in high profile media persecution cases. Remember the second stripper who flipped from saying the duke rape was a 'crock' to a "could be"when Nifong got through with her. On Sixty Minutes , she finally came clean again.

Or blessed Mr. Elmostafa, the Black cab driver...pressured by detectives to change his story that gave Reade Seligmann an alibi. When he refused, Nifong charged him on a bogus shop-lifting charge and made him stand trial. He won a Readers Digest award for bravery.

But that's how its done.

So am I surprised that stories change? It's very common and indicative of nothing.

 

[TorisMom003]

Only he didn't claim he was attacked "where sidewalks meet." Now, this is hearsay, since the story was told by the father, but the father claimed Trayvon came from where the sidewalks meet and asked Zimmerman a question.

Which father? If you mean Zimmerman's father then he originally said that Zimmerman never followed Trayvon at all. He has also said that Trayvon was not on the phone. I believe he also said that Trayvon pulled Zimmerman from out of his truck. All of those things have been proven false as evidence was released.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Only he didn't claim he was attacked "where sidewalks meet." Now, this is hearsay, since the story was told by the father, but the father claimed Trayvon came from where the sidewalks meet and asked Zimmerman a question.

Remember the part about coming from his "rear left" while walking back to his vehicle? Unless one believes Trayvon, somehow, "materialized" out of the end of one of those buildings while George was walking back to his vehicle, in the area of "where the sidewalks meet" is all that's left.

I apologize for being out of town without access to my saved info, but check out the "leaked" article from the Orlando Sentinel and see what George told LE. Remember, the only artlce verified as accurate by the City Manager of Sanford, FL?

 

[Nova]

IMO, it is very likely that this jury, if there ever is one, will be sequestered, no?

I don't know Florida practice well enough to guess, but there's no doubt it will be a high-profile case.

 

[stmarysmead]

Remember the part about coming from his "rear left" while walking back to his vehicle? Unless one believes Trayvon, somehow, "materialized" out of the end of one of those buildings while George was walking back to his vehicle, in the area of "where the sidewalks meet" is all that's left.

I apologize for being out of town without access to my saved info, but check out the "leaked" article from the Orlando Sentinel and see what George told LE. Remember, the only artlce verified as accurate by the City Manager of Sanford, FL?

City Manager's have lied in other high profile cases. Want me to name one?

 

[Nova]

Anyone know how often people who shoot guns break their noses from the kick? I don't know much about gun, but I did shoot handguns on Sunday from the time I was about 8 years old. I haven't touched one in many years, but even when I was 8, I never got hurt by the kick. Worst case, my hands would fly up and I'd miss the target.

But you weren't grappling with your target at the time. If TM was on top of GZ (or vice versa) with a foot or so between them, there wouldn't be enough room for GZ to straighten his arm to support the gun when it fired.

I think it's highly possible that firing in such close quarters, the gun's kickback knocked it into GZ's nose and broke it.

I certainly thinks that's more likely than TM punching GZ in the nose, breaking it and leaving a straight-line abrasion across the bridge without breaking the skin of TM's fist.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

City Manager's have lied in other high profile cases. Want me to name one?

Why would he lie about it?

 

[Concerned Papa]

City Manager's have lied in other high profile cases. Want me to name one?

Feel free to do so if you choose, but betcha I can name more accused murderers that have lied about who started an altercation with no witness or evidence to the contrary.

 

[Nova]

He still affirms Martin was on top...and GZ's broken nose and other injuries confirm the beating. Stories that "change"after much interrogation and pressure are very typical in high profile media persecution cases. Remember the second stripper who flipped from saying the duke rape was a 'crock' to a "could be"when Nifong got through with her. On Sixty Minutes , she finally came clean again.

Or blessed Mr. Elmostafa, the Black cab driver...pressured by detectives to change his story that gave Reade Seligmann an alibi. When he refused, Nifong charged him on a bogus shop-lifting charge and made him stand trial. He won a Readers Digest award for bravery.

But that's how its done.

So am I surprised that stories change? It's very common and indicative of nothing.

"Indicative of nothing"? So you do what, pick whichever version suits your theory?

 

[Reader]

Remember the part about coming from his "rear left" while walking back to his vehicle? Unless one believes Trayvon, somehow, "materialized" out of the end of one of those buildings while George was walking back to his vehicle, in the area of "where the sidewalks meet" is all that's left.

I apologize for being out of town without access to my saved info, but check out the "leaked" article from the Orlando Sentinel and see what George told LE. Remember, the only artlce verified as accurate by the City Manager of Sanford, FL?

Here is your previous post with that link:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7873391&postcount=293"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - George Zimmerman's Injuries[/ame]

HTH

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Thank you, Doc. That's what I've been saying all along, that most of us would just assume the person on the bottom of a scuffle in the dark was doing the screaming. But if TM had seen the gun by then, he might well have been screaming and trying to get the gun away from GZ, even while on the top.

Or trying to prevent GZ from pulling the gun out of its holster? IDK.

 

[jjenny]

"Indicative of nothing"? So you do what, pick whichever version suits your theory?

It's the same version. The story didn't change.

 

[Marigold]

Is GZ righthanded? If he is, then his right eye would most likely be the dominant. If he put the gun up near his face to sight his target, it would figure that the side of the bridge of his nose would be bruised if his gun recoiled and hit him.

With all due respect, I have never heard of anyone putting a pistol anywhere near their face to sight it.

It's been awhile (20+ years) since I've done any target shooting, but from what I remember, if you're shooting reasonably close to you, you just point with your hand, no sighting necessary. If you are shooting something much further away, you hold the pistol at arms' length to sight down the barrel.

 

[jjenny]

Which father? ...

Considering we don't have Zimmerman's actual statement, what exactly are we supposed to discuss?

 

[stmarysmead]

Why would he lie about it?

City Manager Baker of Durham NC gave a press conference and said Mangum (the accuser) never changed her story that night.

In the Atty General investigation , it was proven by numerous witnesses that she claimed from 3 to 12 attackers.

Some City Managers pick sides in these cases that they want to "win." Pardon my sceptism, to all these changing stories and City Managers as truth authorities.

There have been many lies already in this case. The NBC edited tape. The accusation of racial slurs. The claim that GZ had NO injuries.

I have deja vu.