Witness accounts

[Sherbie]

But you weren't grappling with your target at the time. If TM was on top of GZ (or vice versa) with a foot or so between them, there wouldn't be enough room for GZ to straighten his arm to support the gun when it fired.

I think it's highly possible that firing in such close quarters, the gun's kickback knocked it into GZ's nose and broke it.

I certainly thinks that's more likely than TM punching GZ in the nose, breaking it and leaving a straight-line abrasion across the bridge without breaking the skin of TM's fist.

I think that's a plausible theory if the state wants to claim the injury wasn't from a punch, but I doubt they could actually prove it since it doesn't necessarily have to be either/or. Regardless the truth, the defense could always claim that both things occurred - punch to the nose and kick-back from gun or some other scuffle-related action.

 

[LambChop]

Anyone know how often people who shoot guns break their noses from the kick? I don't know much about gun, but I did shoot handguns on Sunday from the time I was about 8 years old. I haven't touched one in many years, but even when I was 8, I never got hurt by the kick. Worst case, my hands would fly up and I'd miss the target.

How many people shoot their weapon while on their back?

 

[stmarysmead]

So GZ had his nose in TM's chest and somehow raised his gun while underneath TM...thereby breaking his nose and killing TM at the same exact time.

I would like to see THAT demonstrated in court.

 

[Karmady]

How many people shoot their weapon while on their back?

I didn't realize the premise of the kick theory involved George being on his back. Under those circumstances, idk whether it is likely or not. But, given the eyewitnesses to a beating and the absence of evidence of Trayvon having been the recipient of it, I have no reason to doubt that the broken nose came from a punch.

eta: I would imagine it's also quite difficult to administer a beating while on your back.

 

[gator]

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The witness on p. 49 of the linked document says she saw her neighbor telling someone he was going to call 911 and "the kid" on the ground, moaning. I'm assuming it's "John" talking to GZ because he's the only witness I know of who announced he was calling 911.

The point is that she saw only ONE person on the ground when "John" was outside. No fighting. Not one person on top of the other. What the heck? Am I missing something?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

JMO.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't realize the premise of the kick theory involved George being on his back. Under those circumstances, idk whether it is likely or not. But, given the eyewitnesses to a beating and the absence of evidence of Trayvon having been the recipient of it, I have no reason to doubt that the broken nose came from a punch.

eta: I would imagine it's also quite difficult to administer a beating while on your back.

Zimmerman's hands had no injuries whatsoever to them as far as I can tell looking at the photos. Trayvon had no injuries to his face, head or neck.
I don't think Zimmerman administered a beating to anyone.

 

[jjenny]

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The witness on p. 49 of the linked document says she saw her neighbor telling someone he was going to call 911 and "the kid" on the ground, moaning. I'm assuming it's "John" talking to GZ because he's the only witness I know of who announced he was calling 911.

The point is that she saw only ONE person on the ground when "John" was outside. No fighting. Not one person on top of the other. What the heck? Am I missing something?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

JMO.

For the most part these witnesses appear to be confused. There is also one on 911 call claiming the person on top was wearing white t-shirt.

 

[stmarysmead]

This is where I see the true effects of the media campaign to make GZ guilty of EVERYTHING and TM...never allowed to have the tiniest negativity attached in any way.

GZ now broke his own nose. TM could not have done even that.

 

[Gayler99]

Considering we don't have Zimmerman's actual statement, what exactly are we supposed to discuss?

And if MOM has his way, we never will.

I really really want to see George Zimmerman's statements to police.

I do not believe that MOM wants Gz's statements suppressed only because GZ said he shot TM.

IMO.

My guess is that GZ said he attempted to detain or stop TM.
The above is a guess. IMO

 

[LambChop]

In my experience, jurors ARE instructed to avoid media coverage of the case and, nowadays, "media" would include social networks and fora such as this one.

I was a juror on a three-month murder trial. Although it wasn't a terribly high-profile case (and it was before the days of cable news channels), I basically gave up on current events during that period.

I think I was answering a post regarding information they have received before they are picked for a jury. You can't control what people have already watched. I think that was the poster's point. That nothing should be released because it taints a jury pool. Once they are picked I know they aren't suppose to even discuss it with anyone, nor watch the news. jmo

 

[jjenny]

I think I was answering a post regarding information they have received before they are picked for a jury. You can't control what people have already watched. I think that was the poster's point. That nothing should be released because it taints a jury pool. Once they are picked I know they aren't suppose to even discuss it with anyone, nor watch the news. jmo

If they are going to receive information by reading msm articles, at least it should be accurate.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The witness on p. 49 of the linked document says she saw her neighbor telling someone he was going to call 911 and "the kid" on the ground, moaning. I'm assuming it's "John" talking to GZ because he's the only witness I know of who announced he was calling 911.

The point is that she saw only ONE person on the ground when "John" was outside. No fighting. Not one person on top of the other. What the heck? Am I missing something?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

JMO.

Right!!! She just saw one person on the ground and the neighbor talking to them and she went inside and then heard the gunshot.

Pretty much as the young boy saw, a person on the ground yelling for help, nobody else around and then he went to get his dog and heard the shot.

Strange isn't it.

 

[LambChop]

If they are going to receive information by reading msm articles, at least it should be accurate.

I think we are headed way off topic here.

 

[jjenny]

Right!!! She just saw one person on the ground and the neighbor talking to them and she went inside and then heard the gunshot.

Pretty much as the young boy saw, a person on the ground yelling for help, nobody else around and then he went to get his dog and heard the shot.

Strange isn't it.

John isn't the only one who described seeing two men on the ground.
There is one female witness interviewed on 2/26, states she saw two men on the ground. Then in handwritten statement on 3/16/12, a witness (not John) also describes seeing two men on the ground, one on top of another.

 

[gator]

For the most part these witnesses appear to be confused. There is also one on 911 call claiming the person on top was wearing white t-shirt.

Maybe I'm thinking of the same witness, but one of the ladies stated that she saw that the "broad-built man" was wearing a t-shirt ("broad-built man" was how she described GZ throughout the narrative). And GZ was wearing a gray t-shirt under his jacket. It's possible he took the jacket off as the scuffle progressed?

P. 94: http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

 

[jjenny]

Maybe I'm thinking of the same witness, but one of the ladies stated that she saw that the "broad-built man" was wearing a t-shirt ("broad-built man" was how she described GZ throughout the narrative). And GZ was wearing a gray t-shirt under his jacket. It's possible he took the jacket off as the scuffle progressed?

P. 94: http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

I really don't know. I honestly feel sorry for the police because some of these statements are so inconsistent with others.

 

[gator]

John isn't the only one who described seeing two men on the ground.
There is one female witness interviewed on 2/26, states she saw two men on the ground. Then in handwritten statement on 3/16/12, a witness (not John) also describes seeing two men on the ground, one on top of another.

But "John" is the defense's star witness because he unequivocally places GZ on the bottom, getting pummeled "MMA-style". If another witness contradicts his story, that calls the getting pummeled into question. JMO.

 

[jjenny]

But "John" is the defense's star witness because he unequivocally places GZ on the bottom, getting pummeled "MMA-style". If another witness contradicts his story, that calls the getting pummeled into question. JMO.

At least in theory, reasonable doubt should go to the defendant, since prosecution has to prove guilt. What's prosecution going to do with a witness who claims she saw one man? She can't say which man it was.
Then the 13 year old who claims he saw one man had this man wearing red.

 

[Etilema]

I really don't know. I honestly feel sorry for the police because some of these statements are so inconsistent with others.

And eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable, in any case. I hope there will be some scientific evidence to clarify matters--each man's injuries, and so forth.

 

[jjenny]

And eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable, in any case. I hope there will be some scientific evidence to clarify matters--each man's injuries, and so forth.

We already know what the injuries were or weren't. There were no injuries to Trayvon's head, face or neck. His injuries were abrasion on fourth left finger and a bullet wound.