Woman Gives Birth To Octuplets II

[mb123]

Yes Roselvr - maybe this is where our disconnect is. It was I believe around the day or so after the Dr. Phil appearance Allred gave a press conference to detail more of what she said she or the AIW saw & I saw her while watching TV state that now that the AIW were not in the home that she feels the children should be removed & placed into foster care. Like I said I don't think much of Suleman's sanity, but explain to me why again Allred feels she is needed to teach Suleman anything or scare sense into her? If there is a problem there are social workers from the state that have been involved with the family for years that are far more capable than she is to handle this. Also the hospital has a much higher level of expertise than she does to handle Suleman's parenting issues.

Again if the argument is that Allred feels a sense of altruism or concern for disadvantaged children well then there are many of them that could use her services, but she won't get any $ or media for it. Like I said I used to like her alot back when she was a woman's rights lawyer, but in the past few years she has really gone over the top to insert herself where she doesn't belong & I think that is what is happening here. My opinion on here went from very very favorable to just disappointed and now disgusted.


Did something happen in the last day?
I've never read or seen Gloria say these kids need to be removed from the home and from what I've seen, she's always said the kids are better with their mother not in foster care.

IMO, I think Gloria has been trying tough love on Nadya, trying to scare some sense into her but it's backfiring.



I do not like Nadya.. but I heard the 911 calls.
The one was when her nanny took the kids to the playground and didn't tell her that they were taking the one she was looking for. She was pretty pregnant at that point, hormones are horrible.. she's thinking her child is gone. Things were probably magnified due to hormones as well as lack of sleep.

Even though Nadya is supposedly going to school to be a therapist, she obviously can't control situations that happen in her own house. Having said that, I know nurses that are fine with other people but when their own kid/family is involved they lose it.[/QUOTE]

 

[mb123]

I wasn't saying you did(advocate their removal), but fiasco is the perfect word for all of this. I don't believe that anyone who is running around in the media has any altruistic purpose here except to figure out a way to make as much $ as they can for themselves. It is really gross. Fortunately the hospital & CPS cannot do that, so there are some advocates in the situation that will hopefully be able to remain objective.

But there are those who are using this as an excuse to advocate their removal which is totally different. Of course I think Suleman is a nut & shows poor judgment; how could anyone not have realized that the first moment they looked at her? But there are alot of parents who do that and many of them take home NICU preemies as well. As a matter of fact a friend of mine was an RN in a NICU - she said actually more babies than we realize that are premature are due to the mother's actions while pregnant (ie drug abuse etc.) & the nurses in the NICU have a hard time detaching as a result of that & SWs are often involved (I'm not saying there aren't premature babies born to very good mothers too, but just statistically more prematurity is due to prenatal actions that were less than appropriate). It is very upsetting -she said she wasn't cut out to work there b/c of that and she was afraid she'd wind up adopting a baby & she was done with having babies! Now this was a leading edge NICU by the way. So my understanding is that actually they are used to seeing alot of crap parents and having to deal with those issues. If anything that should make those who are worried feel better since these people probably have a lot of experience dealing with all sorts of nutty parents.

mb123, I have in no way implied Nadya's poor parenting skills are grounds for removing her kids. What I have said is by inviting the world in to her home she has opened herself up to whatever comments and/or criticism the viewers wish to hurl at her. My comments are that she needs to get a reality check. She needs some serious work in the mothering department. She needs help.

Her house is in chaos, her children have a lot of serious issues that need to be addressed. As their only parent, that falls on her. Getting some structure into their lives would be a good thing and again it is her responsibility to implement.

I believe a single mom with 6 kids who isn't caring for them, supporting them or taking full responsibility for their needs, who goes to a doctor and asks to be implanted with more kids shows a severe lack of judgment. This makes me question what other poor decisions is she making where her kids are concerned.

Knowing what I know about TB, I believe Nadya again showed poor judgment. Not only for her kids but for the other health care givers in her home. She admitted 3 new nannies who not only hadn't yet been cleared for work but who are walking around with very positive TB Tine tests. Yes, I know all 3 might be healthy, just as I know all 3 might be a walking, talking, coughing TB epidemic in her home. Why would anyone take that chance with their children?

Take any of the obstacles the new babies have already faced just to be alive today, low birth weight, severe prematurity, high end multiple birth; any of these by themselves gives these babies a high risk status. Makes them what doctors call "medically fragile". Yet in defending herself for firing AiW, Nadya claims her babies are not high risk, they are normal, healthy newborns. Well Nadya is either doing an awesome job of denying the needs of her babies or wasn't listening to the doctors when she started bringing them home.

When was the last time you heard of a hospital sending case workers into someones home before discharging their babies to them? Those are her babies
and yet the hospital is being allowed to call the shots. Even threatening not to discharge her babies to her if she didn't start paying attention. This alone gets my meter running in high gear. Last time I checked the hospitals responsibility stopped at making sure baby had an approved carseat, properly installed.

Then low and behold, she gets her new babies home and doesn't have any blankets for them? This is not a first time mom, she's been down this road 6 times already. What was she planning on covering these babies with? Her love alone wouldn't keep these little guys warm, especially with as little time she has spent in the nursery.

If AiW came into that home with the sole purpose of intimidating her, writing reports on her and outing her as a bad mother, then shame on them. They were in a position to give guidance, to help educate and to insure the health and well being of those babies. If Nadya only accepted their help so the hospital would start releasing her babies, had no plans on working with them and allowing them to help get her kids the care they need, then shame on her. To be honest I don't know who was more at fault in the fiasco. I just know the babies and kids are the ones who lost the most when the grown ups couldn't figure out a way play nice with each other.

 

[LCoastMom]

Really excellent post. Red is mine.

They're not sure what causes autism.
From what I recently saw on TV, they think there are a few different types; or this is what I think I heard. I don't remember what I was watching the other night, they mentioned how the number of people diagnosed has gone up.

A few years ago it was 1/1000+ Currently 1/160 that is a frightening increase in my mind and something I would be very aware of if my children were babies today.

I know a few kids that were fine as babies until about age 2 or 3. These children went from normal toddlers that ran & jumped & played and ate everything to children that were not, did not eat anything except maybe a handful or 2 foods, would sit in a room by themselves and not socialize.

It is almost impossible for autism to be diagnosed earlier than this unless it is so severe the child never interacted with others. But this is part of the heart break that is autism, a parent has a perfect normal toddler one day and suddenly that toddler is gone.

I was discussing this with my neighbor a few months ago. They've had hard times and no insurance, their kids did not get vaccines according to what doctors want, and the kids are fine. She knows other people that did have insurance and did vaccinate according to the doctors, the children changed, just like what I witnessed 13 or so years ago. I'm trying to think back what vaccines I did and when and if I had my child at the doctor when they were supposed to and I don't think I did. I don't think my children were vaccinated like my friends children were.

I know I did not allow my daughter to have the chicken pox vaccine, I was strongly against that for some reason. My children also have never had a flu vaccine.

Did you know the Chicken Pox vaccine was around and being used in Japan (and other countries) over 35 years ago. It took that long for our government to be assured of the safety of it's use. I remember my pediatrician telling me it was coming slowly, slowly when I had #1 dd who is now 30. The doc was literally waiting to get it in their office 15 years later when my #2 and #3 came down with chicken pox 2 weeks and 1 week respectively before my wedding! (Fortunately all 3 kids had very mild cases and #2 & 3 were given anti viral meds as a boost).

Now, having said that, I do feel that there may be a difference in genetics with some of these kids. It's like the gene is dormant until the right combination of drugs is administered, then it pops it's head.

I think the reason they might find various types of autism is because of the genetics and how it's brought on. I do feel that some are born with it, they might be the child that walks/talks later but I also feel some of it is vaccine related.

It's not the medication (dead virus) per se that is a problem it is the Thimerosal a mercury based preservative that was thought to be the problem. When children have a delayed injection schedule they were receiving much less Thimerosal as each vaccine was spread out over weeks or months rather than 9 to 13 at one time.

It was first reported in 2003 that the vaccines no longer contained Thimerosal, this wasn't actually true as they just reduced the amount in commercial doses and/or parents could specially order Thimerisol free vaccines.

As of 2007 the vaccines given to infants have been thimerosal free (accept the influenza vaccine)

I spoke to one of my friends. No one asked her about her child and how she feels he started showing symptoms at a certain age. I want to know why not? I question why the parents of children currently diagnosed are not being brought into the equation..

It almost seems that parents have been left to fight this one on their own. Are you aware there is a fund set up for children damaged by vaccines? So far only one child has been compensated for autism like symptoms. Last year. The lawyers were very bright in claiming the child had an undiagnosed mitochondrial defect that may have lay dormant forever had it not been for the vaccines.

To all the parents of small children - think about this. You are trying to introduce new foods from formula to see if your child is allergic to something. They want you to do it slowly. It seems that introducing new foods takes forever (or it did back then). Why may I ask are they injection my child with things they have no clue if my child is allergic to?

I understand vaccinations and why we do it but I think it's getting out of control.

FWIW, and I'll probably start a new thread on this.. the gardasil vaccine is one I fear they will mandate.



Did something happen in the last day?
I've never read or seen Gloria say these kids need to be removed from the home and from what I've seen, she's always said the kids are better with their mother not in foster care.

IMO, I think Gloria has been trying tough love on Nadya, trying to scare some sense into her but it's backfiring.

I agree, Nadya takes her tactics as a threat. As much as I don't care for him Dr Phil handled her very appropriately when he said he was respectively backing off.

Two of the things I've learned about autism is 1) when one child in the home is diagnosed the chances that other children in the home will also be diagnosed rises significantly. 2)Children in high end multiple births have a higher significance of autism than single birth babes. The relationship is not yet identified.

These babies are also going to have a higher incidence of speech problems, C.P. and the chance of attachment disorders. (no questions there for me.)

Nadya is currently making money hand over fist, if she gets good investment advice and spends wisely she could be the primary caregiver for her children and pay others to take care of the mundane chores around her. If this happens I'll be surprised. She doesn't worry about things like living in nasty dirty conditions from what I can tell or getting laundry done. She doesn't worry about where her kids next meals are coming from (love conquers all was her battle cry when asked about caring for/supporting 14 kids.) I think she thinks she sprung a money tree when she had 8 viable babies and there's no such thing as drought! And she seems to think a hug (with no eye contact equals mothering.)

Her river denial it is wide. I hope and pray none of her babies drown in it.

 

[LinasK]

So, Angelina Jolie is considering donating money to Nadya! Next thing we'll hear is that Nadya is dating a Brad Pitt look alike.

I wish Angelina would just adopt Nadya's kids herself, rather than giving N. the money, and get a restraining order on her!

 

[LCoastMom]

But remember CPS will always be involved b/c of her older disabled child. So even without the cameras etc. her family will always be on the radar of the authorities who make such determinations, which is more than can be said for alot of households. I do understand what you are saying, but there are more safety nets from a child protective perspective here then most people have in place.

Again - I don't like this woman - I think she is a nut. But the reasons outlined to remove her children are really not up to par unless we were going to remove millions of other children from their homes, due to financial hardship, spacey nutty parent(s), disorganized scheduling or primary use of a non-parent for parenting duties.

Why are CPS involved due to her older child's disability? I've known lots of people over the years with lots of kids and lots of different disabilities, none that had a CPS case unless there was a problem in the home.

The only ones I've known with an open CPS case was because of suspected/reported abuse or neglect that bears constant supervision. And those parents lived with the threat of losing their kids if they didn't walk the straight and narrow.

I would like to add a quick note to everyone posting here. It is a pleasure to share ideas here, whether we agree or agree to disagree everyone has been so respectful of each other and caring for/about the babies has been kept as a focus. (Except understandably when O.M. does something new and crazier.):blowkiss:

 

[Boyz_Mum]

missmybaby and Roselvr~ I realize my question about autism is slightly O/T. Many of you have been kind enough to answer it, and I thank you. Why I asked (and didn't state it clearly enough) was because Nadya has one child with autism (from what we know) and a possibility of 2 other children (from what we've heard)- we don't know about the octos yet. Anyway, from what I've read (which isn't nearly enough), autism seems to be a neurological disorder? Okay, if it's neurological, and Dr K. has a technique for embryo implantation which he adheres the embryo's to the lining of the uterus, is there any chance that the IVF he's performed on Nadya could have any connection to the autism? (In your opinions?) Do we know if autism is or can be caused by neurological damage? Do we know if embryos can be "damaged" during transfer? (If any of this makes sense to anyone, please let me know!) Even if autism rates are higher in the case of multiples, would it be rare for Nadya to have 1 and possibly 3 of her original children to have autism?

Also, we don't know the "spectrum of autism" in which her child is included (is that correct?) Asperger's Syndrome falls in the spectrum of autism, if I'm not mistaken? A psychiatrist and I spoke about a possible "link" between birth trauma and Asperger's many years ago, but what about "embryo damage"?

I am sure I am way overthinking this portion of the situation, but I can't help but to wonder about Dr K and his technique.

Of course as a mother, I've been concerned with the vaccines my children all received. I've been worried about the Chicken Pox vaccine and now the youngest 2 are recommended to have the 2nd dose. The oldest missed out on the vaccine and got the pox. I am very concerned about the meningococcal vaccine.

Roselvr, I will not and have never gotten my children flu vaccines (nor myself), and I have a friend who's daughter was perfectly normal and progressing normally until the age of about 2 and a half. She stopped using words, she began to "grunt" and scream to communicate. She was diagnosed with autism (and I don't know the details) but she is dependent on her parents for the most part at the age of 19. It seemed to happen like a light switch going on and off.

 

[PattyCake]

But remember CPS will always be involved b/c of her older disabled child. So even without the cameras etc. her family will always be on the radar of the authorities who make such determinations, which is more than can be said for alot of households. I do understand what you are saying, but there are more safety nets from a child protective perspective here then most people have in place.

Again - I don't like this woman - I think she is a nut. But the reasons outlined to remove her children are really not up to par unless we were going to remove millions of other children from their homes, due to financial hardship, spacey nutty parent(s), disorganized scheduling or primary use of a non-parent for parenting duties.

I respectfully disagree as a person that is going to be intimately working with CPS shortly. There's no safety nets simply because 1 child MAY have a worker.
I've mentioned earlier, I'm working on my Childs Advocacy in Houston. Once I become one, I help take over areas that CPS lacks in. One huge thing is time. It is a very well documented fact that CPS DEPENDING ON THEIR CASE LOAD - GENERALLY SEES A CHILD LESS THAN 1 EVERY 2 MONTHS.

HOW is that watching a child? That is not 'involved'. And that CPS worker will not be there to advocate or discuss anything about any other child in that home.
Don't you think THAT DAY THEY SHOW UP, NADYA will have everything picture perfect? And yes, unless there is 'concern' they will make the appointment to see her.

1 CPS worker does not have any capabilities here. No matter how you look at it. Even worse, if there's not an issue with their particular childs' file & the child is in the bio moms home, there's even less of a chance that child will be visited for months on end.

 

[yanknrebel]

I wish Angelina would just adopt Nadya's kids herself, rather than giving N. the money, and get a restraining order on her!

I thought the exact same thing. Angelina and Brad are already looking into having more bio children and adoptin simutaneouly, so this would be the perfect plan. We KNOW Brad and Angie can afford these children. Then get that restraining order or move to another country as they can do.

 

[yanknrebel]

Why are CPS involved due to her older child's disability? I've known lots of people over the years with lots of kids and lots of different disabilities, none that had a CPS case unless there was a problem in the home.

The only ones I've known with an open CPS case was because of suspected/reported abuse or neglect that bears constant supervision. And those parents lived with the threat of losing their kids if they didn't walk the straight and narrow.

I would like to add a quick note to everyone posting here. It is a pleasure to share ideas here, whether we agree or agree to disagree everyone has been so respectful of each other and caring for/about the babies has been kept as a focus. (Except understandably when O.M. does something new and crazier.):blowkiss:

As a fomer foster/adoptive parent for 5 years, let me assure you that CPS does NOT get involved UNLESS there have been reports of abuse or neglect. CPS has too many cases on their plate already with very few caseworkers than to just check in on Nadya without a substantial report. A disability will NOT bring CPS into the home.

 

[JMO8778]

I agree with you in regards to Nadya's need for attention. I do wonder though, if "we" don't reward her chaotic behavior with attention, would the histrionics (I think that's a suitable word?) continue or is it possible that she could calm down and raise her kids? We have to remember, even without "pimping the kids" in the media, she could get several different forms of public assistance and provide for her family. (Yes, the taxpayers will still be angry, but it's an alternative to the very public insanity she's raining on her neighborhood?)

I still believe she suffers from something deeper than PPD, but that's JMO.

(I use the term "we" loosely~ as far as I know, by chatting here, we are not profiting Nadya?)

I don't know about Nadya,but how many of us have husbands that behave,in a way...like her?? (or know of them). for instance,my husb. is just not versed in caring for children;it's just not his thing.I'm not making excuses for him..it's just that,if it weren't for me,the kids could stay up as long as they wanted..till 2 am on the phone? sure,why not,in his book...n/p.he wouldn't check to make sure they did their homework,got to bed on time,took a shower (or had a bath or brushed their teeth when they were little)...etc.He does have adult ADD,but I don't know how much that plays into it.I'm guessing maybe it does,to some extent.He doesn't seem to see chaos for what it is...a lot like Nadya's behavior,IMO.
It seems to be surprising when women do that,though.They usually care,whereas if men don't,then no one thinks much about it.esp. a single mom like Nadya...makes you wanna bang your head against a wall!! ahhh!!!

 

[yanknrebel]

I respectfully disagree as a person that is going to be intimately working with CPS shortly. There's no safety nets simply because 1 child MAY have a worker.
I've mentioned earlier, I'm working on my Childs Advocacy in Houston. Once I become one, I help take over areas that CPS lacks in. One huge thing is time. It is a very well documented fact that CPS DEPENDING ON THEIR CASE LOAD - GENERALLY SEES A CHILD LESS THAN 1 EVERY 2 MONTHS.

HOW is that watching a child? That is not 'involved'. And that CPS worker will not be there to advocate or discuss anything about any other child in that home.
Don't you think THAT DAY THEY SHOW UP, NADYA will have everything picture perfect? And yes, unless there is 'concern' they will make the appointment to see her.

1 CPS worker does not have any capabilities here. No matter how you look at it. Even worse, if there's not an issue with their particular childs' file & the child is in the bio moms home, there's even less of a chance that child will be visited for months on end.

I have always found it very strange that CPS or other services like DCS or Tina Turner/CarlPerkins center here locally ALL make appointments to check in on children. Luckily for us and our twins, the worker from Tina Turner center, who was providing parenting services to our twin's biomom stopped by UNANNOUNCED one day because she had a bad feeling. Now let me remind everyone that this worker for Tina Turner center had ALREADY made 10 PAGES worth of reports to CPS about these children and the conditions and behaviour of their biomom. THIS all came from what she observed on SHEDULED visits. On the day this worker went by to check unscheduled she found these 5 months old twins ALL alone in an apartment with the door unlocked and Not a soul in the home with these 5 months old babies. The worked called CPS and the sherrif's office as well as DCS. They were all there over an hour when the biomom finally strolled in. It took THIS for them to remove these babies. This was not the first or 2nd or even third time this biomom had done this. Just the first time that CPS had witnessed it. So at least here in TN, it takes quite a lot for CPS to get involved and even more to have a child removed. So IF Nadya already has a case file opened on one of her children by CPS, it is BECAUSE of some form or charge of abuse or neglect. I would love to find out when it was opened and how many times they have been called to the home. Our children were very lucky to be alive with the behaviour of their biomom. Let's hope CPS is already involved so nothing drastic happens to any of these babies.

 

[JMO8778]

missmybaby and Roselvr~ I realize my question about autism is slightly O/T. Many of you have been kind enough to answer it, and I thank you. Why I asked (and didn't state it clearly enough) was because Nadya has one child with autism (from what we know) and a possibility of 2 other children (from what we've heard)- we don't know about the octos yet. Anyway, from what I've read (which isn't nearly enough), autism seems to be a neurological disorder? Okay, if it's neurological, and Dr K. has a technique for embryo implantation which he adheres the embryo's to the lining of the uterus, is there any chance that the IVF he's performed on Nadya could have any connection to the autism? (In your opinions?) Do we know if autism is or can be caused by neurological damage? Do we know if embryos can be "damaged" during transfer? (If any of this makes sense to anyone, please let me know!) Even if autism rates are higher in the case of multiples, would it be rare for Nadya to have 1 and possibly 3 of her original children to have autism?

Also, we don't know the "spectrum of autism" in which her child is included (is that correct?) Asperger's Syndrome falls in the spectrum of autism, if I'm not mistaken? A psychiatrist and I spoke about a possible "link" between birth trauma and Asperger's many years ago, but what about "embryo damage"?

I am sure I am way overthinking this portion of the situation, but I can't help but to wonder about Dr K and his technique.

Of course as a mother, I've been concerned with the vaccines my children all received. I've been worried about the Chicken Pox vaccine and now the youngest 2 are recommended to have the 2nd dose. The oldest missed out on the vaccine and got the pox. I am very concerned about the meningococcal vaccine.

Roselvr, I will not and have never gotten my children flu vaccines (nor myself), and I have a friend who's daughter was perfectly normal and progressing normally until the age of about 2 and a half. She stopped using words, she began to "grunt" and scream to communicate. She was diagnosed with autism (and I don't know the details) but she is dependent on her parents for the most part at the age of 19. It seemed to happen like a light switch going on and off.

I know they can remove a cell from an intact embryo,and check it for DNA problems before implanting it..they can even tell the sex of it.And I haven't heard of that causing any damage.
I'm guessing the embryos would have to be hatched before injecting them into the lining...so I don't know if they can sustain damage,once out of their protective shell.Seems possible,IMO..very good question.IVF does tend to produce more identical twins,when the embryos are allowed to sit in culture for a few days..(I think this is more than what they normally do).But no one knows exactly what causes ID twins to begin with,other than the blastocyst collapses on itself,and then splits into two parts, thus producing 2 embryos from the original.
What they are finding out now is that certain changes happen to the embryo during the trip down the fallopian tube,changes that CAN'T happen to IVF embryos,since they are created in a dish.IMO there could be some very important,needed chemical,enzymatic and or hormonal changes that happen there,that just haven't been figured out yet.
hopefully more work can be done on IVF issues to see what corrections can or need to be done.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

I respectfully disagree as a person that is going to be intimately working with CPS shortly. There's no safety nets simply because 1 child MAY have a worker.
I've mentioned earlier, I'm working on my Childs Advocacy in Houston. Once I become one, I help take over areas that CPS lacks in. One huge thing is time. It is a very well documented fact that CPS DEPENDING ON THEIR CASE LOAD - GENERALLY SEES A CHILD LESS THAN 1 EVERY 2 MONTHS.

HOW is that watching a child? That is not 'involved'. And that CPS worker will not be there to advocate or discuss anything about any other child in that home.
Don't you think THAT DAY THEY SHOW UP, NADYA will have everything picture perfect? And yes, unless there is 'concern' they will make the appointment to see her.

1 CPS worker does not have any capabilities here. No matter how you look at it. Even worse, if there's not an issue with their particular childs' file & the child is in the bio moms home, there's even less of a chance that child will be visited for months on end.

I don't believe that the older children (disabled or not) would be mandated to have any CPS supervision in the household, but the octos should have protection. (I am only speaking from my own experience with ONE "special" child and a set of rules in Michigan which have no bearing on the rules or caseload in CA.) Keiser should have "stepped in" with their social worker to avoid this catastrope, and as far as we know, they may have, but Nadya seemingly "gave in" to the demands of the "hand that feeds her" and her personal greed.

PattyCake, I am not disagreeing with you, I admire you for being a child advocate or aspiring to being a child advocate.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

I know they can remove a cell from an intact embryo,and check it for DNA problems before implanting it..they can even tell the sex of it.And I haven't heard of that causing any damage.
I'm guessing the embryos would have to be hatched before injecting them into the lining...so I don't know if they can sustain damage,once out of their protective shell.Seems possible,IMO..very good question.IVF does tend to produce more identical twins,when the embryos are allowed to sit in culture for a few days..(I think this is more than what they normally do).But no one knows exactly what causes ID twins to begin with,other than the blastocyst collapses on itself,and then splits into two parts, thus producing 2 embryos from the original.
What they are finding out now is that certain changes happen to the embryo during the trip down the fallopian tubes,changes that CAN'T happen to IVF embryos,since they are created in a dish.IMO there could be some very important,needed chemical,enzymatic and or hormonal changes that happen there,that just haven't been figured out yet.
hopefully more work can be done on IVF issues to see what corrections can or need to be done.

With Dr. K's "pioneer technique", I want to know what happens after the embryo is implanted by stitching into the uterine lining. I just almost believe that tampering with nature can cause some unexpected results. Please don't take my anger at Dr. K and Nadya as a jab at you. I appreciate you for talking about this, and don't want to seem like I'm attacking you.

 

[PattyCake]

I don't believe that the older children (disabled or not) would be mandated to have any CPS supervision in the household, but the octos should have protection. (I am only speaking from my own experience with ONE "special" child and a set of rules in Michigan which have no bearing on the rules or caseload in CA.) Keiser should have "stepped in" with their social worker to avoid this catastrope, and as far as we know, they may have, but Nadya seemingly "gave in" to the demands of the "hand that feeds her" and her personal greed.

PattyCake, I am not disagreeing with you, I admire you for being a child advocate or aspiring to being a child advocate.

Oh Boyzmum - there's nothing in your post I would disagree with. :blowkiss: Not sure why you mentioned that.

Unless they find something in my FBI background check, I'm in. :crazy: Hopefully they won't look at WS, lol

Just need to finish the University training shortly. These poor babes need a few more voices in the world fighting for their rights.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Oh Boyzmum - there's nothing in your post I would disagree with. :blowkiss: Not sure why you mentioned that.

Unless they find something in my FBI background check, I'm in. :crazy: Hopefully they won't look at WS, lol

Just need to finish the University training shortly. These poor babes need a few more voices in the world fighting for their rights.

I'm happy we have YOU to fight for children's rights. You don't mince words and for that you have my admiration. :clap: Girl... YOU ROCK!!

 

[LCoastMom]

With Dr. K's "pioneer technique", I want to know what happens after the embryo is implanted by stitching into the uterine lining. I just almost believe that tampering with nature can cause some unexpected results. Please don't take my anger at Dr. K and Nadya as a jab at you. I appreciate you for talking about this, and don't want to seem like I'm attacking you.

One thing to remember from all I heard her doc has very poor numbers when it comes to live births (a specialist in LA said the worst numbers in the area by far). Just because he stitches the cells to the uterine wall doesn't mean they will survive. If this is the case they will just slough off with the next menses.

missmybaby and Roselvr~ I realize my question about autism is slightly O/T. Many of you have been kind enough to answer it, and I thank you. Why I asked (and didn't state it clearly enough) was because Nadya has one child with autism (from what we know) and a possibility of 2 other children (from what we've heard)- we don't know about the octos yet. Anyway, from what I've read (which isn't nearly enough), autism seems to be a neurological disorder? Okay, if it's neurological, and Dr K. has a technique for embryo implantation which he adheres the embryo's to the lining of the uterus, is there any chance that the IVF he's performed on Nadya could have any connection to the autism? (In your opinions?) Do we know if autism is or can be caused by neurological damage? Do we know if embryos can be "damaged" during transfer? (If any of this makes sense to anyone, please let me know!) Even if autism rates are higher in the case of multiples, would it be rare for Nadya to have 1 and possibly 3 of her original children to have autism?

Also, we don't know the "spectrum of autism" in which her child is included (is that correct?) Asperger's Syndrome falls in the spectrum of autism, if I'm not mistaken? A psychiatrist and I spoke about a possible "link" between birth trauma and Asperger's many years ago, but what about "embryo damage"?

I am sure I am way overthinking this portion of the situation, but I can't help but to wonder about Dr K and his technique.

Of course as a mother, I've been concerned with the vaccines my children all received. I've been worried about the Chicken Pox vaccine and now the youngest 2 are recommended to have the 2nd dose. The oldest missed out on the vaccine and got the pox. I am very concerned about the meningococcal vaccine.

Roselvr, I will not and have never gotten my children flu vaccines (nor myself), and I have a friend who's daughter was perfectly normal and progressing normally until the age of about 2 and a half. She stopped using words, she began to "grunt" and scream to communicate. She was diagnosed with autism (and I don't know the details) but she is dependent on her parents for the most part at the age of 19. It seemed to happen like a light switch going on and off.

Actually I don't think you are off topic as at least 1 of the 6 is autistic. The 3 y.o. is what I would call fairly severe. He is enrolled in a program for autistic tots. One of her other boys is speech delayed and possibly autistic I'm guessing this is one of the twins.

While the jury is still out on the cause of autism I believe they have already found a genetic marker that shows a predisposition for autism, which doesn't mean a child will end up on the spectrum but may mean there are things that must be done to prevent it from happening. It would also mean the octs have another risk factor, they already know higher mults have a higher incidence. So if the genetic link pans out it would be likely at least some of the octs will be somewhere on the spectrum if all the kids in fact have the same father,

There is a family in Utah I watched a documentary about, all 7 of their kids are autistic to one degree or another. The younger ones are all seemly worse off than the older. There is a family of triplets that Discovery had been following since before birth, in the last update when they were 3 they had just discovered 1 of their boys is autistic and another family of triplets I read about last winter all 3 of their boys are at the severe end. They are in MD and have a terrible time there due to lack of services available. It's truly frightening for these kids.


When these transfers are done it's a group of dividing cells, if done at 3 days post fertilization the zygote or "baby to be" is about 8 cells big. By 5 days it a blastocyst containing 70 to 100 cells. So I think if he were to cause any damage at this point the cells would most likely just stop dividing and there would be no baby. (Remember Nadya claims she had 6 implanted for each of her other pregnancies but only has 6 kids out of 30 total transfers)

Anything is possible, I have no clear understanding of what he uses to attach the cells to the lining. Is it an actual stitch or is it some type of liquid like plastic surgeons sometimes use (called liquid band-aide) it acts like super glue.

When he does the transfers there are no systems formed yet, basically they are clumps of cells that are potential babies. So I'm feeling fairly confident that any damage he caused would just cause "that" transfer of cells to fail.

Somebody here said they saw Nadya's doctor as a kind of Frankenstein and Nadya his human guinea pig. To me they sound like a match made in hell. Can you imagine a mother and father (or any couple) going in together and leaving 6 pregnancies and 14 babies later?

 

[LCoastMom]

I have always found it very strange that CPS or other services like DCS or Tina Turner/CarlPerkins center here locally ALL make appointments to check in on children. Luckily for us and our twins, the worker from Tina Turner center, who was providing parenting services to our twin's biomom stopped by UNANNOUNCED one day because she had a bad feeling. Now let me remind everyone that this worker for Tina Turner center had ALREADY made 10 PAGES worth of reports to CPS about these children and the conditions and behaviour of their biomom. THIS all came from what she observed on SHEDULED visits. On the day this worker went by to check unscheduled she found these 5 months old twins ALL alone in an apartment with the door unlocked and Not a soul in the home with these 5 months old babies. The worked called CPS and the sherrif's office as well as DCS. They were all there over an hour when the biomom finally strolled in. It took THIS for them to remove these babies. This was not the first or 2nd or even third time this biomom had done this. Just the first time that CPS had witnessed it. So at least here in TN, it takes quite a lot for CPS to get involved and even more to have a child removed. So IF Nadya already has a case file opened on one of her children by CPS, it is BECAUSE of some form or charge of abuse or neglect. I would love to find out when it was opened and how many times they have been called to the home. Our children were very lucky to be alive with the behaviour of their biomom. Let's hope CPS is already involved so nothing drastic happens to any of these babies.

You and your twins are very lucky. I worked with C.A.A.N.(Child Abuse and Neglect) in California, one of my very first "clients" had this beautiful little almost 2 y.o. who had been scalded with formula all over her chest when she was less than a week old and not taken for medical care til GMa showed up several days later, by then she was infected from the blisters opening and not being treated. (mom was F.A.S. low IQ) dad was a psychopath(?) charming or mean, depending on mood the guy scared the bejeebs outta me. When GMa got the baby to the ER, CPS was called. They got the baby back after taking some parenting classes and agreeing to a parent aid making home visits.

I wrote a book worth of reports on these people, they never should have been given that baby back and the best of my knowledge CPS never followed up on a single report. I eventually got so burned out I had to resign.

They were the extreme IMO, most of my clients just needed some support and did just fine. But one is all it takes.

 

[justthinkin]

No way do I believe Angelina Jolie is donating money to someone who sent her creepy letters. I have no doubts whatsoever this story came from Suleman herself. She has to do something to try to keep herself in the limelight, and it is quickly disappearing.

Look at the sources. Even if it was true, I believe the money would come anonymously. Hollywood stars are paranoid about the possibility of stalkers.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

No way do I believe Angelina Jolie is donating money to someone who sent her creepy letters. I have no doubts whatsoever this story came from Suleman herself. She has to do something to try to keep herself in the limelight, and it is quickly disappearing.

Look at the sources. Even if it was true, I believe the money would come anonymously. Hollywood stars are paranoid about the possibility of stalkers.

I didn't think about Nadya being the "source" of this "scoop". It makes perfect sense the way you've said it. I can't imagine donating money to a person who might be a stalker.