I agree,this seems to be most logical scenario to me also,I have
also wondered about her involvement with the school that day
and why she did not stay of all days. :waitasec:
Working Theories Thread
- Thread starter Emma Peel
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I agree,this seems to be most logical scenario to me also,I have
also wondered about her involvement with the school that day
and why she did not stay of all days. :waitasec:
Jersey*Girl
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OMGosh! I've miss you guys sooo much...busy with boys & their sports!
Hey mama! Welcome to Websleuths! You make a valid point but I personally think law enforcement have his glasses. I would think that if they didn't, they'd keep the model # to themselves so as to filter out the tips that really may not be linked. IOW - several glasses within a brand may resemble each other, but the model # is what would set them apart. So, why release the model # instead of just a pic of them made by that particular company? KWIM? I think there's more to why they released the model #.
gliving
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I'm guessing the real perp made sure she would leave early so they could make their move.
:waitasec:
October
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This has been my theory from day one as well. The more I see, the more convinced I am of it. That's all I'm going to say.
glorybug
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I find it very odd that people can sift through 60 somthing photos and find one or two where he doesn't look overjoyed, and then somehow use that to bolster a theory. I looked at all of those photos, and what struck me, as it has every time I've seen one of them, is how HAPPY he looks. Dad also appears very happy. Since SM is not in most of the pics, she's obviously the one taking pictures. Think about it. In most of the cases where children were falsely abducted and the family actually was responible for their disappearance, there are very few pics of the child taken by the family. I've seen cases where there was only one pic available and it wasn't even taken by the family.
I don't even want to imagine what people would think of me based on the expressions on my kids faces in pictures. Obviously Kyron liked smiling for the camera. My children do not like posing like that, so a lot of their pictures show them looking annoyed because mom is taking even MORE pictures.
Imagine how heartbreaking it must have been to have had to look through all those pics in order to provide them to LE.
I don't even want to imagine what people would think of me based on the expressions on my kids faces in pictures. Obviously Kyron liked smiling for the camera. My children do not like posing like that, so a lot of their pictures show them looking annoyed because mom is taking even MORE pictures.
Imagine how heartbreaking it must have been to have had to look through all those pics in order to provide them to LE.
PDXMom
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I hadn't thought of this scenario at all. So, along these lines, would one expect him to be alive and safe? (oh god I hope it's true) How would a relative relinquish him without implicating him/herself? Or would they? The goal of the alleged abductor would be that custody would be returned to BM when it's resolved? Just trying to think it through.
I agree that SM seems to have a lot on her plate, but I have known other moms who really need to be the Super Volunteer. Very competitive types, but generally working for common good. I keep coming back to the idea that a woman who kills is usually unstable (I'm sorry, I don't know whom on this forum to give credit for this!). We know so very little about SM's personality, but wouldn't she have gone nuts by now with all the pressure and surveillance? Maybe, maybe not. I'd really like to hear more on this theory. (I really hope I haven't violated any rules here)
Ms Suzanne
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I feel everyone should be looked at.But I feel the SM and father should both be looked at.
awakewriter
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So much about law enforcement behavior reminds me of LE behavior in the Somer Thompson case.
justlogic
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Hi all. This is my first post here. I think it is within the tos. My only sources of information are the same news reports and witness interviews many of you have seen.
Approximately 8:15am Friday June 4th the Skyline school PTA president said she saw Kyron and his stepmother standing near Kyron's science fair exhibit. Kyrons teacher also said she saw Kyron with his stepmother in her classroom some time before 8:45am. Approximately 8:45am the stepmother claims after watching Kyron walk towards the hallway to his classroom she left the school and that was the last time she saw Kyron.
Kyron was scheduled to be with his classroom group for the science fair tour from 9:00am until 10:00am that day and his stated destination according to Kyrons stepmother was his classroom.
Kyron was also scheduled to be in a school talent show from 1:00pm until 2:24pm. Unfortunately Kyrons stepmother did not attend the school talent show with the other parents. Around 9:00am a classmate and friend of Kyron said he spoke with Kyron in the hallway near the stairs. This friend said Kyron told him he was going downstairs to see a cool electric display. No one else seems to have talked to Kyron that day or is as yet reported to have done so. The last time this friend saw Kyron was at that moment as Kyron went down the stairs. No one has seen 7 year old Kyron Horman since. The friend said the time was 9:00am. I am not aware of any reports of Kyrons activity's between 8:45am and 9:00am. I am not aware of any report that Kyron went into his classroom. If both the 8:45am and 9:00am times and stories are correct, We must believe Kyron just stood alone in the hallway for 15 minutes after telling his stepmother he was going to his classroom and while walking down the stairs he simply disappeared from the face of the earth. The perpetrator of this crime wants us to believe this and will come out fighting to defend it.
9:00am was the scheduled time for all of the children to be in their classes. If Kyron had told his step mother he was going to his class at 8:45am. There must be a reason Kyron never got to his classroom. Did Kyron wander? No, of course not.
Kyron was headed to his moment of glory. I think his friend is just wrong about the time. Kyrons past behavior model shows he does what he says he is going to do. Kyron followed the rules. Kyron was known and described as a good sweet and timid child. Kyron had no known problems with tardiness,absence,wandering or other negative behaviors in general. He was not the type of child to just wander away.
If the 8:45am story is correct Kyron was so extremely eager to get to his class and begin the tour that he headed for class 15 minutes early and fully intended to go there and would not waiver from that. It is not likely Kyron would stray from his objective. Kyron had waited for his moment in the sun for weeks. Kyron would not be late for his greatest event. Kyron was so very proud of his exhibit, that his sole desire was to get there early to assure he would be on time to show his exhibit to his classmates. What possible reasoning could have distracted Kyron from his moment of pride and joy?
This same friend and classmate was in class at the 9:00am roll call. The friend was not in the hallway at 9:00am and so it is reasonable to assume some time had to pass between that hallway conversation and the 9:00am role call. This same friend was one of the first to notice Kyron was not in class for the roll call and this surprised him. Why would it surprise him if he had just spoken to Kyron at 9:00am and he knew Kyron was going downstairs. Why would he expect Kyron to make roll call on time. The schedule was 9:00am roll call, form small groups and tour science fair until 10:00am.
There was nothing reported in their conversation about Kyron not having time to go downstairs. Kyron and his friend must have both thought Kyron had time to go downstairs and return to his class for the 9:00am role call.
This conversation very possibly took place before 9:00am. It very possibly took place around 8:46am just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend being only 8 years old may not be as aware of the actual time as he believes. Witnesses report what they believe they saw, what they believe happened, what they believe the time was. A lot of the time it just doesnt fit.
It is reasonable to assume the friends grandmother told him that it was time to go to class because it starts at 9:00am. He could then think it is 9:00am because his grandmother told him so.
This same friend also said he saw Kyron's step mom leave without Kyron, and that is all he said about that. I am not aware of any report that he said he saw her leave the building, go outside get in her car etc. The friend was on the second floor with Kyron so at best, all he could have seen was step mom go down the stairs. He did not say who went down the stairs first, Kyron or step mom. The friend only said they went down separately. The friend did not say he ever saw Kyron in his classroom that day. The friend said he saw Kyron in the hallway. Presumably just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend was on the second floor. The friend had no way of knowing what happened on the first floor.
All of the events mentioned here took place on the second floor and currently all of the public news reports, video witness interviews etc, that I am aware of, are all second floor events.
The conversation between Kyron and his friend very possibly took place some time before 9:00am. I think Kyron was taken out of that school before 9:00am. It had to happen before the kids were in their seats looking out in the window. It had to happen before 9:00am because even though the halls would be momentarily clear, any people in them would stand out. A mass of parents leaving between 8:45am and 9:00am would provide excellent cover. It would have to happen before 9:00am to take advantage of the crowd and chaos that came with it. The school normally opens to students at 8:35am and the final bell rings at 8:45am. On Friday June 4 2010 the school opened early so students could tour the science fair with their parents. The school opened at 8:am that day. The bell times were not reset for the special event that day and all bells sounded at their normal times and so the final bell rang at 8:45am. This is presumably how Kyrons stepmother is certain of the time she claims she left him. That 8:45am bell also signaled go time and a plan was enacted by someone that knew the schools routines and procedures very well.
Taking a child from a school hallway is a high risk proposition for anyone at any time. Add a special event with hundreds of potential witnesses to the equation and a snatch and grab is just out of the question. While pedophiles may go to these events to meet children by way of meeting parents and posing as a safe friend, it would not be a good time for most to actually take a child. But the crowd and confusion could have been used as an advantage to someone with another plan. Someone that knew a phone call would not be made even after the absence was discovered. Someone needed time for the act and alibi and someone knew they would have it. This was not a crime of simple opportunity. This was also not done by some older kid. This act was committed by someone with adult knowledge,skills and with extremely detailed planing ability. You need a real plan to pull this off. You need to be extremely organized.
Kyron knew his abductor very very well and Kyron had no idea what was going to happen as he walked off very willingly with this person. To make this work your victim has to know you, trust you and even better, be waiting for you. Who did Kyron know and trust that he would wait for and leave with? Leaving without question or hesitation? Kicking and screaming would bring quick attention. Who would he voluntarily get in a car with? Who worked and or volunteered at that school enough to know the building, the security and the lack of it, who would blend in the best, who would be the most invisible while in plain sight. Who could best exit with Kyron unappreciated.
My guess is Kyron going down those stairs was a step in a very specific 8:45am plan. Kyron was very possibly sent down those stairs by someone he trusted. My guess is Kyrons abductor was positioned very close to Kyron that mourning watching Kyron and waiting for that 8:45am bell. At 8:45am the bell rang and Kyrons abductor moved to a new position as the plan was put in motion. Kyrons abductor moved away from the second floor activity's of the day. Kyrons abductor would want to appear to be exiting alone. Kyrons abductor would move to the first floor so that they would not be noticeably seen with Kyron.
On the first floor Kyrons abductor was no longer making contact with anyone, no longer chatting with others. On the first floor Kyrons abductor would want to blend in and be invisible. Transparency would be vital. This person would not be appreciably noticeable to anyone. This person would fit so well in the environment that their activity was completely unappreciated. The attentions of the staff, students and visitors were completely focused on the science fair and the excitement. The search for Kyron brought in new information and now the focus has shifted to the criminal investigation. The investigations in these cases begin inside and work their way out. Who was Kyron with last? Who was close to Kyron? Who had the ability? Who had the knowledge? Who had the opportunity? Who had a motive? Who had a vendetta? Who felt Kyron was a burden. Who felt Kyron was an obstacle? Who did Kyron trust enough to leave with? The bell rang at 8:45am and before 9:00am Kyron was gone.
Approximately 8:15am Friday June 4th the Skyline school PTA president said she saw Kyron and his stepmother standing near Kyron's science fair exhibit. Kyrons teacher also said she saw Kyron with his stepmother in her classroom some time before 8:45am. Approximately 8:45am the stepmother claims after watching Kyron walk towards the hallway to his classroom she left the school and that was the last time she saw Kyron.
Kyron was scheduled to be with his classroom group for the science fair tour from 9:00am until 10:00am that day and his stated destination according to Kyrons stepmother was his classroom.
Kyron was also scheduled to be in a school talent show from 1:00pm until 2:24pm. Unfortunately Kyrons stepmother did not attend the school talent show with the other parents. Around 9:00am a classmate and friend of Kyron said he spoke with Kyron in the hallway near the stairs. This friend said Kyron told him he was going downstairs to see a cool electric display. No one else seems to have talked to Kyron that day or is as yet reported to have done so. The last time this friend saw Kyron was at that moment as Kyron went down the stairs. No one has seen 7 year old Kyron Horman since. The friend said the time was 9:00am. I am not aware of any reports of Kyrons activity's between 8:45am and 9:00am. I am not aware of any report that Kyron went into his classroom. If both the 8:45am and 9:00am times and stories are correct, We must believe Kyron just stood alone in the hallway for 15 minutes after telling his stepmother he was going to his classroom and while walking down the stairs he simply disappeared from the face of the earth. The perpetrator of this crime wants us to believe this and will come out fighting to defend it.
9:00am was the scheduled time for all of the children to be in their classes. If Kyron had told his step mother he was going to his class at 8:45am. There must be a reason Kyron never got to his classroom. Did Kyron wander? No, of course not.
Kyron was headed to his moment of glory. I think his friend is just wrong about the time. Kyrons past behavior model shows he does what he says he is going to do. Kyron followed the rules. Kyron was known and described as a good sweet and timid child. Kyron had no known problems with tardiness,absence,wandering or other negative behaviors in general. He was not the type of child to just wander away.
If the 8:45am story is correct Kyron was so extremely eager to get to his class and begin the tour that he headed for class 15 minutes early and fully intended to go there and would not waiver from that. It is not likely Kyron would stray from his objective. Kyron had waited for his moment in the sun for weeks. Kyron would not be late for his greatest event. Kyron was so very proud of his exhibit, that his sole desire was to get there early to assure he would be on time to show his exhibit to his classmates. What possible reasoning could have distracted Kyron from his moment of pride and joy?
This same friend and classmate was in class at the 9:00am roll call. The friend was not in the hallway at 9:00am and so it is reasonable to assume some time had to pass between that hallway conversation and the 9:00am role call. This same friend was one of the first to notice Kyron was not in class for the roll call and this surprised him. Why would it surprise him if he had just spoken to Kyron at 9:00am and he knew Kyron was going downstairs. Why would he expect Kyron to make roll call on time. The schedule was 9:00am roll call, form small groups and tour science fair until 10:00am.
There was nothing reported in their conversation about Kyron not having time to go downstairs. Kyron and his friend must have both thought Kyron had time to go downstairs and return to his class for the 9:00am role call.
This conversation very possibly took place before 9:00am. It very possibly took place around 8:46am just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend being only 8 years old may not be as aware of the actual time as he believes. Witnesses report what they believe they saw, what they believe happened, what they believe the time was. A lot of the time it just doesnt fit.
It is reasonable to assume the friends grandmother told him that it was time to go to class because it starts at 9:00am. He could then think it is 9:00am because his grandmother told him so.
This same friend also said he saw Kyron's step mom leave without Kyron, and that is all he said about that. I am not aware of any report that he said he saw her leave the building, go outside get in her car etc. The friend was on the second floor with Kyron so at best, all he could have seen was step mom go down the stairs. He did not say who went down the stairs first, Kyron or step mom. The friend only said they went down separately. The friend did not say he ever saw Kyron in his classroom that day. The friend said he saw Kyron in the hallway. Presumably just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend was on the second floor. The friend had no way of knowing what happened on the first floor.
All of the events mentioned here took place on the second floor and currently all of the public news reports, video witness interviews etc, that I am aware of, are all second floor events.
The conversation between Kyron and his friend very possibly took place some time before 9:00am. I think Kyron was taken out of that school before 9:00am. It had to happen before the kids were in their seats looking out in the window. It had to happen before 9:00am because even though the halls would be momentarily clear, any people in them would stand out. A mass of parents leaving between 8:45am and 9:00am would provide excellent cover. It would have to happen before 9:00am to take advantage of the crowd and chaos that came with it. The school normally opens to students at 8:35am and the final bell rings at 8:45am. On Friday June 4 2010 the school opened early so students could tour the science fair with their parents. The school opened at 8:am that day. The bell times were not reset for the special event that day and all bells sounded at their normal times and so the final bell rang at 8:45am. This is presumably how Kyrons stepmother is certain of the time she claims she left him. That 8:45am bell also signaled go time and a plan was enacted by someone that knew the schools routines and procedures very well.
Taking a child from a school hallway is a high risk proposition for anyone at any time. Add a special event with hundreds of potential witnesses to the equation and a snatch and grab is just out of the question. While pedophiles may go to these events to meet children by way of meeting parents and posing as a safe friend, it would not be a good time for most to actually take a child. But the crowd and confusion could have been used as an advantage to someone with another plan. Someone that knew a phone call would not be made even after the absence was discovered. Someone needed time for the act and alibi and someone knew they would have it. This was not a crime of simple opportunity. This was also not done by some older kid. This act was committed by someone with adult knowledge,skills and with extremely detailed planing ability. You need a real plan to pull this off. You need to be extremely organized.
Kyron knew his abductor very very well and Kyron had no idea what was going to happen as he walked off very willingly with this person. To make this work your victim has to know you, trust you and even better, be waiting for you. Who did Kyron know and trust that he would wait for and leave with? Leaving without question or hesitation? Kicking and screaming would bring quick attention. Who would he voluntarily get in a car with? Who worked and or volunteered at that school enough to know the building, the security and the lack of it, who would blend in the best, who would be the most invisible while in plain sight. Who could best exit with Kyron unappreciated.
My guess is Kyron going down those stairs was a step in a very specific 8:45am plan. Kyron was very possibly sent down those stairs by someone he trusted. My guess is Kyrons abductor was positioned very close to Kyron that mourning watching Kyron and waiting for that 8:45am bell. At 8:45am the bell rang and Kyrons abductor moved to a new position as the plan was put in motion. Kyrons abductor moved away from the second floor activity's of the day. Kyrons abductor would want to appear to be exiting alone. Kyrons abductor would move to the first floor so that they would not be noticeably seen with Kyron.
On the first floor Kyrons abductor was no longer making contact with anyone, no longer chatting with others. On the first floor Kyrons abductor would want to blend in and be invisible. Transparency would be vital. This person would not be appreciably noticeable to anyone. This person would fit so well in the environment that their activity was completely unappreciated. The attentions of the staff, students and visitors were completely focused on the science fair and the excitement. The search for Kyron brought in new information and now the focus has shifted to the criminal investigation. The investigations in these cases begin inside and work their way out. Who was Kyron with last? Who was close to Kyron? Who had the ability? Who had the knowledge? Who had the opportunity? Who had a motive? Who had a vendetta? Who felt Kyron was a burden. Who felt Kyron was an obstacle? Who did Kyron trust enough to leave with? The bell rang at 8:45am and before 9:00am Kyron was gone.
Friday Theory
I have a generic theory and you could call it a Friday Theory. IMO crimes that are committed on a Friday, as opposed to any other day of the week, tend to be premeditated and I suspect that a motive (however wrong-headed) is that the perp is correcting some perceived problem, inequity, or long-held grudge. I think Friday is relevant because I think it is anchored precisely between the end of a work week and a weekend. The timing is important as I think the self-centered perp is trying to minimize the impact to their life and schedule, as bizarre as that sounds.
In contrast IMO crimes of passion (what a bad phrase!) probably end up being committed randomly whenever, any meaningless day or time of the week.
I have a generic theory and you could call it a Friday Theory. IMO crimes that are committed on a Friday, as opposed to any other day of the week, tend to be premeditated and I suspect that a motive (however wrong-headed) is that the perp is correcting some perceived problem, inequity, or long-held grudge. I think Friday is relevant because I think it is anchored precisely between the end of a work week and a weekend. The timing is important as I think the self-centered perp is trying to minimize the impact to their life and schedule, as bizarre as that sounds.
In contrast IMO crimes of passion (what a bad phrase!) probably end up being committed randomly whenever, any meaningless day or time of the week.
seeking truth
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Welcome, justlogic.
Your post, your theory, is beautiful in it's simplicity, chilling in it believability and probability.
Excellent, awesome reasoning, and extremely LOGICAL.
Why reach for answers when the answer is right in front of us, no matter how hard it is to fathom?
Your post, your theory, is beautiful in it's simplicity, chilling in it believability and probability.
Excellent, awesome reasoning, and extremely LOGICAL.
Why reach for answers when the answer is right in front of us, no matter how hard it is to fathom?
Angel4u2Whisper2
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Nicely said Justlogic and Welcome!
winterrose
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This is why I said my mind is fighting what I think it could be in this scenario.In this scenario,I don't see him being passed on to someone.It's what I would hope,since this whole thing would be irrational in the first place if this was the intent to get rid of him.But,appearances are deceiving and even though we can take any scenario and fit theories in it,doesn't make it so.I didn't even feel comfortable expressing my theory,because until we find out what happened,everyone we see is a victim.Based on what we have at this time,much of that theory is very feasible,except the last part of what was done after he left the school.
BrendaStar
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Wow! Justlogic.....you analysis sent chills down my spine. There is so much logic to what you wrote. Welcome to WebSleuths!
raeann
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Interesting theory....but class DID begin at 8:45 am, there was a warning bell at 8:35 and the final bell at 8:45. Then the kids began their tours. This is one of the few, confirmed absolute facts that we do have in this case.
jmo
jmo
Very well thought out observations. I think the most important two statements in your great recap are:
Who felt Kyron was a burden. Who felt Kyron was an obstacle?
Follow the trail.
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