Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

[Betty P]

State ROA #209
7/08/2015

Ex Parte Application - Other and Supporting Documents (Ex Parte Application of Nonparty Jonah Shacknai for Order Continuing Hearing) filed by Shacknai, Jonah.

Shacknai, Jonah (Interested Party)

(not available for purchase yet)

I'm curious if Dina subpoenaed Jonah for a deposition or a document? His name was not on the list of completed depositions. IANAL, so I'm unsure what Jonah is asking for, maybe AZlawyer will have a better understanding? Is there a chance Jonah is contesting the sharing of evidence on file with SDSO?

IANAL, of course, but reading this part from the link above to the filing:

Now being the time previously set for hearing Nonparty Jonah Shacknai's Ex Parte Application for an Order Continuing Hearing on Defendant Dina Shacknai's Motion to Compel, or in the Alternative to Shorten Time on Jonah Shacknai's Motion to Modify Subpoena and/or for Protective Order, counsel appear as noted above and the hearing commences.

BBM

it looks like Jonah filed this Ex Parte Application in response to Dina's Motion to Compel. Just guessing, but it looks like, in addition to the list of questions she wanted Mary Zahau to answer, she also requested something from Jonah, whether answers to questions or documents.

Lots of room for speculation about what she's trying to get him to say or prove. JMO.

 

[coastal]

Thank you so much for continuing to keep us informed, *Lash*!

I admit I had no idea how much work a lawsuit really requires of everyone involved, but I am getting a good education now, and I'm grateful to you for it.

You too, LuckyLucy2, because my rose-colored glasses have finally gone dark.

 

[kittychi]

Her feet were not "full of courtyard dirt". There are photos, you know, and we can clearly see they are NOT "caked in mud" or overly dirty. They are consistent with the dirt on the balcony. We can even see in the scene photos where her feet picked up the balcony dust and left prints.

You may (incorrectly) believe Rebecca Zahau was murdered, however, her death certificate states her death was a suicide and that is what is in the official records. This case will not change that. This is not a criminal trial. Her death will remain classified as a suicide even after this case is dismissed.

JMO

These feet do not look like freshly showered feet to me, or feet that would not leave dirty marks on a white carpet. IMO this looks like fresh, dark garden loam used in plant beds, partly rubbed off onto wet grass.

Why wouldn't that dirt on her feet be tested and compared with dirt on the grounds of Spreckels? There is a reason, IMO.

I think two things are being covered up:

1. Something that Rebecca knew and she had to be shut up.

2. Huge attempts have been made and are still being made to cover up Rebecca's murder.

The elephant in the room here IMO is Jonah. He knows what #1 and #2 are.

 

[Inparadise]

These feet do not look like freshly showered feet to me, or feet that would not leave dirty marks on a white carpet. IMO this looks like fresh, dark garden loam used in plant beds, partly rubbed off onto wet grass.

Why wouldn't that dirt on her feet be tested and compared with dirt on the grounds of Spreckels? There is a reason, IMO.

I think two things are being covered up:

1. Something that Rebecca knew and she had to be shut up.

2. Huge attempts have been made and are still being made to cover up Rebecca's murder.

The elephant in the room here IMO is Jonah. He knows what #1 and #2 are.

IMO, Rebecca knew what happened to Max: she agreed to go along with Jonah's story initially, but he knew that eventually she would tell the truth and he could not let that happen.......she was not his "blood" and was expendable. Jonah was afraid that Dina would sue him because of what really happened to Max and that he would lose all his money because she would sue him, and he was not about to let that happen.

 

[*Lash*]

I would be interested in seeing the tapes from the Rady parking garage to see if Dina's car left and/or returned during the wee small hours when she was presumably alone at Max's bedside. If it never left the garage, that would comport with her version of the night in question. I presume that since the Zahau attorneys have had access to the Rady tapes they could have that information.

Your post got me thinking more about the "why" Nina borrowed Jonah's car instead of her sisters car Tuesday night.

First, if Dina's car WAS seen leaving the hospital, what explanation did she give the detectives and why was the public told something different? If Dina's car did leave the hospital, of course the time in which she was seen leaving and returning would be crucial. It would also clearly prove the statement alleging Dina was by Maxie's beside all night to be false.

Second, if Dina's car was NOT seen leaving the hospital and there are witnesses that can testify she was NOT in the ICU room with Max, how did Dina get to Spreckels? Assuming Dina did leave, I doubt she used a taxi. One would HOPE the investigation would have uncovered a tidbit like that. In my opinion, this could be another reason Nina borrowed Jonah's car. Imo, Dina could have been waiting for Nina to pick her up via Jonah's car. Just a few things to ponder.

 

[*Lash*]

You state Rebecca was murdered, as if it were a fact. Rebecca Zahau's death was ruled to be a suicide after an exhaustive seven-week long investigation. The Zahaus are simply trying to make some money off of two grieving families, IMO.


For see the physical evidence that proved Zahau took her own life, see:

http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/

RBBM - The word "proved" is an opinion. The SDSO suicide ruling is a "conclusion" not a proven fact. Just because an investigation into a death "concluded" it was a suicide doesn't make it a fact. As an example, the McStay family. SDSO "concluded" the family took off. Sadly, it was later proven to be a fact the family was murdered. As well, in SDSO's theory, no one witnessed Rebecca's alleged suicide. JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

These feet do not look like freshly showered feet to me, or feet that would not leave dirty marks on a white carpet. IMO this looks like fresh, dark garden loam used in plant beds, partly rubbed off onto wet grass.

Why wouldn't that dirt on her feet be tested and compared with dirt on the grounds of Spreckels? There is a reason, IMO.

I think two things are being covered up:

1. Something that Rebecca knew and she had to be shut up.

2. Huge attempts have been made and are still being made to cover up Rebecca's murder.

The elephant in the room here IMO is Jonah. He knows what #1 and #2 are.

Imo, the darkening on her feet looks like it is where the lividity has pooled due to the blood settling in her lower extremities from the position she was found in. Blood always pools to the lowest points due to gravity pull.

It doesn't look like mud to me and her feet appear to be relatively clean. Imo, this is how her skin looked after death. There are articles out there that discusses what happens to the body of someone who was found hanging. One of the things they notate is if the rope doesn't break there will be lividity darkening of the skin in areas of the lower legs and feet.

IMO

 

[kittychi]

Her feet were not "full of courtyard dirt". There are photos, you know, and we can clearly see they are NOT "caked in mud" or overly dirty. They are consistent with the dirt on the balcony. We can even see in the scene photos where her feet picked up the balcony dust and left prints.

You may (incorrectly) believe Rebecca Zahau was murdered, however, her death certificate states her death was a suicide and that is what is in the official records. This case will not change that. This is not a criminal trial. Her death will remain classified as a suicide even after this case is dismissed.

JMO

BBM: There was no photo of her footprints on the balcony.

 

[1&2&3]

Again this show us, people with money, will keep twisting and turning the facts, trying to wiggle their way out of the truth by one way or another. The facts ma'm, and only the facts! The truth is so much easier to tell.

Why can't a judge see through this and keep the line straight?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

IMO, Rebecca knew what happened to Max: she agreed to go along with Jonah's story initially, but he knew that eventually she would tell the truth and he could not let that happen.......she was not his "blood" and was expendable. Jonah was afraid that Dina would sue him because of what really happened to Max and that he would lose all his money because she would sue him, and he was not about to let that happen.

So you are saying that Rebecca and her sister lied (and XZ continues to lie) to police and medical personnel about what happened to little Max Shacknai?

Sad that you would suggest that about a teenage girl. Rebecca may have lied to police about how long Max went without air and how the accident happened, but one thing is certain - only she and XZ were with Max that morning.

I do take the things you say with a grain of salt since you have been wrong about so much. You said that Max was cremated, but that was not true either. He was buried at Mt. Sinai. You said the Niles family was living in the caretakers quarters and were asked to leave the day of Max's accident, however, we found out in Ann Rules book that they had not been living there for some time.

BTW, how is the child you said Jonah's new girlfirend was having. He\she would be what, 3 or so now? Any news on that?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

BBM: There was no photo of her footprints on the balcony.

Here is is, and it shows that the dirt on her feet is from the balcony. You can even see how her feet were tied together and how she did her little hop to her death.




http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/

 

[LuckyLucy2]

RBBM - The word "proved" is an opinion. The SDSO suicide ruling is a "conclusion" not a proven fact. Just because an investigation into a death "concluded" it was a suicide doesn't make it a fact. As an example, the McStay family. SDSO "concluded" the family took off. Sadly, it was later proven to be a fact the family was murdered. As well, in SDSO's theory, no one witnessed Rebecca's alleged suicide. JMO.

No, in this case proved means the case is closed and was determined to be a suicide. Just because some people on an internet site believe they know more that the fifteen investigators that actually saw the scene and the evidence want to believe it was murder does not make it so.

It is on the books as a suicide and there it will remain.

 

[justice be served]

k

State ROA #209
7/08/2015

Ex Parte Application - Other and Supporting Documents (Ex Parte Application of Nonparty Jonah Shacknai for Order Continuing Hearing) filed by Shacknai, Jonah.

Shacknai, Jonah (Interested Party)

(not available for purchase yet)

I'm curious if Dina subpoenaed Jonah for a deposition or a document? His name was not on the list of completed depositions. IANAL, so I'm unsure what Jonah is asking for, maybe AZlawyer will have a better understanding? Is there a chance Jonah is contesting the sharing of evidence on file with SDSO?

IMO Jonah has been trying to put both deaths to bed from the instant of both occurrences. If there is any apparent transparency, this is it.

And, he's not about to stop now. IMO he will utilize every bit of power, money and influence to continue the meme in place. So obvious what the play by play has been and so it continues unfolding before our eyes as we see here.

He simply cannot remain so untouchable and, if he does, my faith in our justice system will forever be irretrievably broken. I truly hope the Zahaus finally get this massive can of worms opened.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Jonah Shacknai had nothing to do with Rebecca Zahau's suicide. He was at the Ronald McDonald House when she took her life. He immediately knew she committed suicide because he was the person that was closest to her and had the most contact with her after Max was injured. He would have known how upset she was. He would also have a copy of the text he sent to her that night. IMO, he asked her to move out of the mansion. He could not have known in advance that she would commit suicide, but that was certainly his first thought when she was found hanging. IMO, he knew how dramatic she could be.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

Just to clarify the facts...

Jonah allegedly left a voicemail not a text message. The voicemail was allegedly erased and the investigative team waited until it was too late to retrieve the alleged voicemail from the cellphone provider. The detectives alleged they did not need the voicemail and assumed Jonah Shacknai's was telling the truth.

Detectives said the message was erased and officials will not confirm who left the voicemail. That does not sit well with the Zahau family attorney Anne Bremner.

"The message, whatever it was, is forever erased," Bremner said. "They're pinning this entire suicide conclusion on a phone message that no one has ever heard."

Zahau's cell phone records did not log any incoming voice message from Jonah Shacknai on the evening of July 12.

AT&T spokesperson Georgia Taylor explained why some incoming calls may not be included in the billing log.

"When someone calls you and you do not pick it up, or the call was not received, it goes straight to voicemail," Taylor said. "It is not logged on your bill per se. If you're not answering it or if your phone's turned off, it's not going to register."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

Snip -
News 8 has learned Sheriff's detectives never attempted to recover a deleted voicemail message, which Nesbit confirmed was left for Zahau by her boyfriend Jonah Shacknai, 54, hours before she died.

Investigators have said the voicemail may have caused Zahau to commit suicide, because the message allegedly informed her that Shacknai's 6-year-old son, Max, would not survive injuries he suffered during a fall at the mansion while under Zahau's care.

In the early days of the investigation, Jonah Shacknai told detectives he had left the voicemail message, Lt. Nesbit recalled.

"If we could have gotten it (the voicemail), yes, it would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case," said Lt. Nesbit.

Snip-
To date, sheriff investigators have served no search warrants or subpoenas on AT&T seeking to obtain either the deleted voicemail or call logs related to Rebecca Zahau's phone, according to Lt. Nesbit.

Nesbit said because they had possession of the phone itself, there was no need to subpoena Rebecca's call logs.

"We had the phone in custody and if the case had gotten to a point where we needed to obtain other records, we would have done another search warrant to obtain those records," said Nesbit.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

 

[screecher]

Your post got me thinking more about the "why" Nina borrowed Jonah's car instead of her sisters car Tuesday night.

First, if Dina's car WAS seen leaving the hospital, what explanation did she give the detectives and why was the public told something different? If Dina's car did leave the hospital, of course the time in which she was seen leaving and returning would be crucial. It would also clearly prove the statement alleging Dina was by Maxie's beside all night to be false.

Second, if Dina's car was NOT seen leaving the hospital and there are witnesses that can testify she was NOT in the ICU room with Max, how did Dina get to Spreckels? Assuming Dina did leave, I doubt she used a taxi. One would HOPE the investigation would have uncovered a tidbit like that. In my opinion, this could be another reason Nina borrowed Jonah's car. Imo, Dina could have been waiting for Nina to pick her up via Jonah's car. Just a few things to ponder.

BBM

Absolutely. The sisters had 12+ hours to plan. 12+ hours.

So you are saying that Rebecca and her sister lied (and XZ continues to lie) to police and medical personnel about what happened to little Max Shacknai?

Sad that you would suggest that about a teenage girl. Rebecca may have lied to police about how long Max went without air and how the accident happened, but one thing is certain - only she and XZ were with Max that morning.

I do take the things you say with a grain of salt since you have been wrong about so much. You said that Max was cremated, but that was not true either. He was buried at Mt. Sinai. You said the Niles family was living in the caretakers quarters and were asked to leave the day of Max's accident, however, we found out in Ann Rules book that they had not been living there for some time.

BTW, how is the child you said Jonah's new girlfirend was having. He\she would be what, 3 or so now? Any news on that?

BBM

1st bold--how is it you know what the minor continues to lie? nothing has been put out here or in the public what the minor has said re another minor death.

2nd bold--wow, that's pretty rich, considering what you have said about this minor.

No, in this case proved means the case is closed and was determined to be a suicide. Just because some people on an internet site believe they know more that the fifteen investigators that actually saw the scene and the evidence want to believe it was murder does not make it so.

It is on the books as a suicide and there it will remain.

Jonah Shacknai had nothing to do with Rebecca Zahau's suicide. He was at the Ronald McDonald House when she took her life. He immediately knew she committed suicide because he was the person that was closest to her and had the most contact with her after Max was injured. He would have known how upset she was. He would also have a copy of the text he sent to her that night. IMO, he asked her to move out of the mansion. He could not have known in advance that she would commit suicide, but that was certainly his first thought when she was found hanging. IMO, he knew how dramatic she could be.

JMO

BBM

How do you know he knew she committed suicide? Do tell. Because what everyone here, who has followed this case from the beginning, as I'm sure you have, knows he asked someone at Rebecca's funeral if that person knew of anyone who might want/wanted to cause harm to Rebecca. Pray tell, why would he ask that if he 'knew' she killed herself?

"The lady doth protest too much" lolol

 

[*Lash*]

A different perspective...

Notice the boot impression SDSO claimed to be from an officer that inadvertently contaminated the crime scene.

The footprints SDSO alleged belonged to Rebecca's were never printed to match her actual feet. There is no evidence the footprints were Rebecca's. Why would a LE forensic team not take a footprint sample for comparsion? It was just assumed the footprints belonged to Rebecca. Quite a jump to make to the balcony leaving only a single toe print.

While remaining largely tight-lipped, Zahau’s attorneys said Friday their own investigation determined “no one in history” has killed herself in such a manner. It also found Zahau’s DNA was not on the balcony railing where she died. Anne Bremner, the Seattle-based attorney also working the case for Zahau, added phone records prove the Sheriff’s Department investigation is “baseless”.

http://fox5sandiego.com/2012/07/13/coronado-mansion-mystery-one-year-later/

 

[*Lash*]

Like some of the evidence from this case, the uninterpretable levels of DNA, evidence samples not taken, etc...the footprints allegedly lacked enough detail to make a comparison for identification purposes.

The footprints

On the balcony, investigators found footprints and a partial shoe print, the latter from a Coronado police officer who stepped there while investigating.

Who did the footprints belong to? The dusty impressions lacked enough detail to “make a comparison for identification purposes, Nesbit said. “However, the size of the impressions … was consistent with the size of Ms. Zahau’s feet.”

Bremner raised the possibility of someone standing in the room, just outside the balcony, throwing Zahau to her death.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...s-sure-bizarre-case-suicide-family-unconvi/2/

 

[*Lash*]

Originally Posted by time
So, Rebecca died from asphyxiation by hanging, right? What about the rigor in her legs holding them in a bent position. Can some of you with medical knowledge chime in again? I'm trying to work out scenarios where it is possible that her legs formed rigor in that position and the lividity was on her back (IIRC).

Is it possible she was hanged but then soon after placed in some different position where rigor and lividity set, then she was moved before she was found and/or before 911 was called? I know early on we had long conversations about her possibly being hog tied also or tied to a chair.

Was Wecht's conclusion basically that she died by hanging, but was not dropped from the balcony?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?148961-The-case-for-murder&p=8466752#post8466752

Torn neck muscles and LE quality review proceses

I'm a verified health care professional, so I'll chime in on this. I have more than a passing familiarity with neck structures, as I'm an anesthetist.

The pattern of tearing in Rebecca's sternocleidomastoid and infrahyoid ("strap") muscles would not occur with a simple constriction asphyxiation. It is difficult to tear these muscles in such a fashion. Her left SCM was torn nearly in half. That is very severe damage. IMO, almost certainly from her weight, torque, and forces she experienced as she violently fell from the neck. IMO, lifting a body from below would not cause that pattern of severe tearing in those muscles, in particular, in the infrahyoid muscles (which are deeper within the anterior neck structures).

As far as rigor and lividity, from the position broadcast of her body on the spreckles lawn, she was tilted to the side, not flat supine. When you tilt someone to the side who has wrists bound behind them, and ankles bound. the knees would tend to bend. Or if the legs were not purposefully straightened out, and she was lowered to weight on her feet, then torso lowered, her legs would not be fully extended. Either of these positions can cause bent knees, imo.

If she died around 3 am, which is Dr. Lucas' best estimate (and I agree with), then rigor would be just setting in around 7 am, and livor would still be moveable/ shiftable, producing the posterior back livor. Should she have also had booting in her feet? Seems reasonable to me, but I'll leave that interpretation up to forensic experts.

It's a pity and a professional shame that it took 12+ hours for the ME to arrive at the scene. Disgraceful, IMO. The window for determining algor mortis was lost by then. (Along with other observations that would have further narrowed time of death.)

One of the things about this case, and others (such as Dawna Natzke's case) is that there appears to be no procedure within law enforcement investigations for quality assurance. Within the medical profession, outside reviews of deaths occur regularly,and internal reviews of all sorts of mishaps occur daily. Sometimes insurance policies for hopsitals have a condition that outside reviews have to be accomplished in certain circumstances. Fires, for instance-- any hospital fire has to have a myriad of outside reviews, and inspection agencies reports. Airline mishaps have multiple outside agencies investigate what happened-- and not just crash situations. Outside review by impartial investigators in many industries is standard practice.

I have always been somewhat dumbfounded that law enforcement investigations do not have this process as part of their standard operating procedure, when there are significant questions about how a case investigation has unfolded. Take, for example, the George Zimmerman case-- if there had been a system to review the Sanford police department investigation, the situation may have unfolded quite differently than it did.

It seems to be, imo, institutionalized arrogance that says that if an investigation was done, the conclusions "must" be correct. Or we cherry pick "which" parts, or which investigations are correct, and which aren't, to suit our own opinions and objectives. That is a system construct that lends itself to bureaucracy and influence peddling at every level.

LE investigations are sacred cows that we as mere civilians can never question without significant push pack from entrenched bureaucracies. It is a grave threat and an insult to these institutions to suggest that they submit themselves for review of their work and investigations. That is partly why it is so difficult to petition these agencies for another review and investigation.

But it would take decades to effect changes and oversight, either through the statutory process, or at a national level. So it is what it is! Like our broken CPS systems-- this one is not an easy or quick fix. We have to find a way to work within the broken aspects of the system we have, not the one we wish we had!

Added thought:
The description of SCM and infrahyoid hemorrhages on the autopsy report, IMO, indicates a beating heart at the time of the neck muscle tearing. I ran that by some colleagues a long time ago last year when I wrote Rebecca's autopsy review for The Hinky Meter. I believe her heart was beating when the tearing occurred. She could have been conscious, or unconscious, or semiconscious, from for example, one or more blows to the head. I do not believe she was dead when she went over the balcony.

 

[kittychi]

:goodpost:

Excellent, *Lash*, thank you!