Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Gilgamesh]

Wow, so if her bound ankles were connected to the bindings on her wrists, causing her legs to be forced into a partially bent position, how the heck did this woman manage to get herself out on the balcony and launch herself over the railing if she couldn't even stand up properly let alone walk!!?

.

Am I missing something? Where did you hear this?

 

[inthedark14]

This!

In all the pictures of the hanging room there are no shavings from the rope. There are none listed under her nails or in her hair from the autopsy. So where did they go? You cut a rope with a knife there will be threads left behind.

I have always been baffled by this.

ALWAYS MOO

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I can't think of one reason she would have been gripping the knife by the blade with both hands behind her back if she was able to slip her hand out of the binding as the investigators claimed.

Oh, you and your logic! The Shacknai Team doesn't need your kind around here! Lol

 

[Seattle1]

photos of the knot expert at trial. It is a mannequin - I was a bit shocked at first glance!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180307-photogallery.html

I read earlier that Greer planned to use a custom made silicone mannequin for the trial. Perhaps it will be used for more demonstrations as trial progresses. (A very expensive trial prop).

 

[Betty P]

I can't think of one reason she would have been gripping the knife by the blade with both hands behind her back if she was able to slip her hand out of the binding as the investigators claimed.

I've been wondering about that. She must have been sitting on the floor or on her legs folded under her. The knife must have been nearby and Adam distracted or out of the room for her to be able to somehow get the knife in her hands, then try cutting the ropes. Wonder if she was left sitting there alone for a while? Or was he on the phone talking to someone, with his back turned. Or perhaps it was when he was painting the message on the door?

Any ideas?

 

[Imp]

.

Am I missing something? Where did you hear this?

I'm not sure anyone heard it officially ~ I believe it became a topic of discussion due to the position of RZ's legs on the ground. I can't remember who brought it up here initially. Her legs were bent at the knees (and so are the knees of the mannequin the knot expert is using in the courtroom). If she was suspended from the rope around her neck, you wouldn't think her legs would be fixed in that position so quickly after being cut down.

 

[2Hope4]

HI defense team!!
:welcome4:

I was sharing the crime photos with my husband the last few days, and tonight showed him the mannequin that was in court. He didn't know anything about the case. He asked WHO MURDERED HER?? So I explained the case. He said who has money and knows someone high up? Disgusting that corruption can happen like this! There must be someone higher than the LE in charge currently that can investigate this case. There's no way this was a suicide.

How was someone suppose to walk, skip, or whatever method while hog tied? How then could you lift yourself over the railing of a balcony to kill yourself? How can you hog tie yourself? This is the most bizarre, corrupted, manipulated crime! Rebecca was murdered, and the only recourse her family has is civil court? In America...this type of thing happens???

May ALL responsible for this injustice be held accountable!

 

[coastal]

photos of the knot expert at trial. It is a mannequin - I was a bit shocked at first glance!

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180307-photogallery.html

Thanks Tortoise. I believe those photos belong to this article:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-day5-story.html

Expert mariner shows how knots tied on Rebecca Zahau

>>>snip

...Philpott testified that he believes Zahau was hogtied originally, with the rope from her ankles connected to the rope at her wrists. The ropes were not connected when authorities collected their evidence....

(article continues)

<<<snip

The photos of Mr. Philpott demonstrating the tying of knots are very powerful. even from this distance and without sound. The painted toenails on the manneken really humanized it for me, which makes it all the more terrible when I imagine it being done to Rebecca. That took time, and careful thought - unless it didn't, which would mean it was done without thought, and instinctively. Either way makes the defendant look bad, IMO.

I think the jury must have been moved by Philpott's testimony and example. I know I was.

 

[Mica]

HI defense team!!
:welcome4:

I was sharing the crime photos with my husband the last few days, and tonight showed him the mannequin that was in court. He didn't know anything about the case. He asked WHO MURDERED HER?? So I explained the case. He said who has money and knows someone high up? Disgusting that corruption can happen like this! There must be someone higher than the LE in charge currently that can investigate this case. There's no way this was a suicide.

How was someone suppose to walk, skip, or whatever method while hog tied? How then could you lift yourself over the railing of a balcony to kill yourself? How can you hog tie yourself? This is the most bizarre, corrupted, manipulated crime! Rebecca was murdered, and the only recourse her family has is civil court? In America...this type of thing happens???

May ALL responsible for this injustice be held accountable!

Follow the money, as you said. The McStay case is another case SDSD blundered. It&#8217;s either incompetence, corruption, or both involved with these cases. Gore needs to be removed, IMO.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I'm not sure anyone heard it officially ~ I believe it became a topic of discussion due to the position of RZ's legs on the ground. I can't remember who brought it up here initially. Her legs were bent at the knees (and so are the knees of the mannequin the knot expert is using in the courtroom). If she was suspended from the rope around her neck, you wouldn't think her legs would be fixed in that position so quickly after being cut down.

Thanks!

 

[bourne]

I don't recall the exact date, but it was earlier in 2011 at Temple Chai in Scottsdale.

To reiterate, Adam saw Jonah earlier in 2011 in Scottsdale, AZ. Then day after Max's accident, on 7/12/11, Adam flew to Coronado and Rebecca picked him up at airport. She drove him to the hospital, and Adam met with his brother Jonah. Then IIRC, they all drove to a McDonald's to eat dinner and met up with Dr. Luber there too. Altogether Adam, Jonah, Rebecca and Dr. Luber were at McDonald's eating. Then Dr. Luber drove Jonah to hospital or Ronald McDonald House and Rebecca drove Adam and herself to Spreckel's mansion and Rebecca went to main house while Adam went to guesthouse in back.

Adam states he saw Rebecca hanging off outdoor courtyard balcony as he awoke and was going to main house for breakfast. He said he went into kitchen to get knife to cut her down. He also said he stood on three-legged lawn table to cut her down.

According to Cynic's drawings, Adam was tall enough to cut her down without stepping atop a table...

Adam stated he then call 911 at 6am. While on 911, he stated he also texted his brother Jonah that Rebecca had hung herself...

Suspicious? Yes.

 

[nanwv]

To reiterate, Adam saw Jonah earlier in 2011 in Scottsdale, AZ. Then day after Max's accident, on 7/12/11, Adam flew to Coronado and Rebecca picked him up at airport. She drove him to the hospital, and Adam met with his brother Jonah. Then IIRC, they all drove to a McDonald's to eat dinner and met up with Dr. Luber there too. Altogether Adam, Jonah, Rebecca and Dr. Luber were at McDonald's eating. Then Dr. Luber drove Jonah to hospital or Ronald McDonald House and Rebecca drove Adam and herself to Spreckel's mansion and Rebecca went to main house while Adam went to guesthouse in back.

Adam states he saw Rebecca hanging off outdoor courtyard balcony as he awoke and was going to main house for breakfast. He said he went into kitchen to get knife to cut her down. He also said he stood on three-legged lawn table to cut her down.

According to Cynic's drawings, Adam was tall enough to cut her down without stepping atop a table...

Adam stated he then call 911 at 6am. While on 911, he stated he also texted his brother Jonah that Rebecca had hung herself...

Suspicious? Yes.

The balancing act on the three legged table was always one of my favorites (among so many). Would love to see Greer request a re-enactment. Adam standing, err balancing on a 3 legged table, after racing to the kitchen to grab an oh so sharp kitchen knife, sawing the rope that is holding a swinging Rebecca. Yep, super powers those brothers posess.

 

[MsFacetious]

If the bindings between her hands and feet were connected, it would account for the bending of the knees, and also perhaps the injury to the front of the ankles. ( suggested/referred to in the new amended (4th) complaint that was filed.)

**I also understand that Mr Greer&#8217;s websleuths interview was also mentioned by one of AS defense attorney&#8217;s in one of the court filings....it seems they are &#8216;very familiar&#8217; with the RZ postings....

It still doesn't explain how you hogtie yourself and jump off a balcony. It's yet another inconsistency. If she hung herself her legs would have been straight down. She was either hogtied while hanging, or she was dead before she was put over the ledge and rigor had already set in. (I'm leaning towards the former.)

Wow, so if her bound ankles were connected to the bindings on her wrists, causing her legs to be forced into a partially bent position, how the heck did this woman manage to get herself out on the balcony and launch herself over the railing if she couldn't even stand up properly let alone walk!!?

:yeahthat:

 

[Lezah]

Thanks Tortoise. I believe those photos belong to this article:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-day5-story.html

Expert mariner shows how knots tied on Rebecca Zahau

>>>snip

...Philpott testified that he believes Zahau was hogtied originally, with the rope from her ankles connected to the rope at her wrists. The ropes were not connected when authorities collected their evidence....

(article continues)

<<<snip

The photos of Mr. Philpott demonstrating the tying of knots are very powerful. even from this distance and without sound. The painted toenails on the manneken really humanized it for me, which makes it all the more terrible when I imagine it being done to Rebecca. That took time, and careful thought - unless it didn't, which would mean it was done without thought, and instinctively. Either way makes the defendant look bad, IMO.

I think the jury must have been moved by Philpott's testimony and example. I know I was.

Thankyou for your very helpful post.

Take a look at Cynics earlier diagram of the soles of RZs feet. There is symmetrical ( menstrual) blood staining on the soles of the feet between the toes. Consistent with RZ having to ‘sit’ (on the soles) of her feet due to being restrained in this position. The connected ‘tying’ can also be the only explanation for the slackening in the rope discovered after death. When the ropes were cut, the ropes became slack at the wrists and ankles. The murderer must have got quite a shock when he cut the ropes and found poor RZ locked and bent in rigor. This is perhaps why there was the pretence of ‘cutting her down’ and was discovered on the grass. Otherwise I beleive she would have been discovered hanging...So I don’t beleive she was ever suspended on that balcony rope. She was staged on the grass IMO. I beleive she died when tied in that restrained position.

 

[2Hope4]

her knees would have hit that balcony railing preventing her from launching herself over as well. Foot prints would have been toe touches because she couldn't stand up straight!

 

[Lezah]

I read earlier that Greer planned to use a custom made silicone mannequin for the trial. Perhaps it will be used for more demonstrations as trial progresses. (A very expensive trial prop).

My interpretation of the court filings I have read show the defense objected strongly against this mannequin being used at all. I understand it was originally designated to also show the additional injuriesto RZs body that we have heard about from the autopsy. I saw there is a sheet covering the mannequin today. Perhaps the objection was overruled for the knot tying, but not for the injury demonstration? Otherwise if it was allowed by the judge, it may be they will use the mannequin for this purpose during Dr Wecht’s testimony?

 

[Imp]

Thankyou for your very helpful post.

Take a look at Cynics earlier diagram of the soles of RZs feet. There is symmetrical ( menstrual) blood staining on the soles of the feet between the toes. Consistent with RZ having to ‘sit’ (on the soles) of her feet due to being restrained in this position. The connected ‘tying’ can also be the only explanation for the slackening in the rope discovered after death. When the ropes were cut, the ropes became slack at the wrists and ankles. The murderer must have got quite a shock when he cut the ropes and found poor RZ locked and bent in rigor. This is perhaps why there was the pretence of ‘cutting her down’ and was discovered on the grass. Otherwise I beleive she would have been discovered hanging...So I don’t beleive she was ever suspended on that balcony rope. She was staged on the grass IMO. I beleive she died when tied in that restrained position.

BBM. I'm not convinced there was menstrual blood per all the crack "death investigators" employed by SDSO. Since she was violated with a knife handle, I think it's just as likely the blood was the result of trauma.

 

[Peaceful]

Thanks Tortoise. I believe those photos belong to this article:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-day5-story.html

Expert mariner shows how knots tied on Rebecca Zahau

>>>snip

...Philpott testified that he believes Zahau was hogtied originally, with the rope from her ankles connected to the rope at her wrists. The ropes were not connected when authorities collected their evidence....

(article continues)

<<<snip

The photos of Mr. Philpott demonstrating the tying of knots are very powerful. even from this distance and without sound. The painted toenails on the manneken really humanized it for me, which makes it all the more terrible when I imagine it being done to Rebecca. That took time, and careful thought - unless it didn't, which would mean it was done without thought, and instinctively. Either way makes the defendant look bad, IMO.

I think the jury must have been moved by Philpott's testimony and example. I know I was.

Coastal,
I am so glad you are able to attend the trial. I would sure have loved to. I also appreciate the insight into the effectiveness of this witness because I heard it mentioned he got the knots backwards during his testimony and I hoped that didn't impact the presentation.

I can't wait for Dr. Wecht to testify. Does anyone know when he is expected?

 

[Inparadise]

To reiterate, Adam saw Jonah earlier in 2011 in Scottsdale, AZ. Then day after Max's accident, on 7/12/11, Adam flew to Coronado and Rebecca picked him up at airport. She drove him to the hospital, and Adam met with his brother Jonah. Then IIRC, they all drove to a McDonald's to eat dinner and met up with Dr. Luber there too. Altogether Adam, Jonah, Rebecca and Dr. Luber were at McDonald's eating. Then Dr. Luber drove Jonah to hospital or Ronald McDonald House and Rebecca drove Adam and herself to Spreckel's mansion and Rebecca went to main house while Adam went to guesthouse in back.

Adam states he saw Rebecca hanging off outdoor courtyard balcony as he awoke and was going to main house for breakfast. He said he went into kitchen to get knife to cut her down. He also said he stood on three-legged lawn table to cut her down.

According to Cynic's drawings, Adam was tall enough to cut her down without stepping atop a table...

Adam stated he then call 911 at 6am. While on 911, he stated he also texted his brother Jonah that Rebecca had hung herself...

Suspicious? Yes.

Dr. Luber had been at the hospital with Jonah. Rebecca drove Adam there, then Adam, Jonah, Luber and Rebecca went to the "Fish Market" on Harbor Drive, near the San Diego Airport for dinner. Luber was then dropped off at the airport (allegedly) to catch a flight back to Phoenix. Rebecca then drove back to Rady Children's Hospital, with Jonah and Adam, and dropped Jonah off. Rebecca and Adam then returned to Spreckels on Coronado.

 

[Lezah]

BBM. I'm not convinced there was menstrual blood per all the crack "death investigators" employed by SDSO. Since she was violated with a knife handle, I think it's just as likely the blood was the result of trauma.

That’s a good point, I certainly agree with your comment on the quality of the investigation...although the blood I mention was described as dried and smeared on the underside of the feet at the autopsy, and there were no wounds or trauma indentified in this particular area.

( if someone can help me by explaining how to post a picture I would be very grateful!)