Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Imp]

I’m not up on this case, but am wondering how no dna of the brother was found if he cut her down and claims to have performed cpr on her. At least that’s what I read. Anyone? TIA

My guesses: 1) He was wearing gloves to cut her down and probably didn't perform CPR on her, or 2) the "death investigators" didn't test for Adam's DNA.

 

[Imp]

JMO, Adam was coached on what to do that night and what to say the next morning. Pfingst?

Whoever the coach(es), the student was terrible. Had there been a real death investigation, imo, Adam's words and demeanor would've been red flags. Jonah's as well.

 

[angelainwi]

Haven't been following this as closely as many of you. So hopefully this is not an idiotic question/comment. Evidence on the balcony is one of her footprints, right? How can it be only one footprint if her feet were bound? And if her feet were bound how could there be a perfect footprint, wouldn't one kinda have to shuffle to the edge of the balcony which would not leave one footprint?

 

[Imp]

Haven't been following this as closely as many of you. So hopefully this is not an idiotic question/comment. Evidence on the balcony is one of her footprints, right? How can it be only one footprint if her feet were bound? And if her feet were bound how could there be a perfect footprint, wouldn't one kinda have to shuffle to the edge of the balcony which would not leave one footprint?

Nothing about the balcony scene has ever made sense, from the footprints, to the undisturbed dust on the railing, to the notion she somehow put herself over that railing with her hands and feet bound.

 

[nanwv]

I didn't expect much from the 20/20 episode. They didn't mention a lot of the information we had from the beginning but added a couple of new things.

It was my understanding that Max fell off the top railing (coincidence that Rebecca also fell off a railing) of the staircase, hit or grabbed onto the chandelier and both ended up on the ground. 20/20 wants us to believe "Max fell down the stairs.

Never heard of the "witchcraft book" before but thought there was some crazy Asian bondage *advertiser censored* linked to Adam's computer.

So much strange stuff in this case like the attorney being one of the first arrivals to the mansion, the panties in Adam's room, those rope, messages, and a bunch of men trying to convince the public that any woman would kill herself in the manner Rebecca was killed and left on display for hours.

Looking forward to Greer bringing all of this darkness into the light.

 

[Carioca]

clipped for focus:

ETA: There were a couple of chilling moments in Jonah's interview last night.

The first was when he discussed calling or texting RZ, allegedly just before she died. When recalling that incident, I could see anger and a flash of rage in his face and voice. He framed it in terms of Max's health status that night. Based on that flash of real rage and anger, I definitely think he was enraged with RZ about his son's accident, angry enough to cause harm, JMO. He was (and still is) furious with her for what happened.

The second was when Jonah answered the question about the knots used to bind RZ's hands and feet. He casually mentioned that she used to ride on his boat and was always glad to jump off the boat and scramble to tie it up. Like she was some kind of obedient puppy trying to please him. He didn't teach her those knots,he implies she learned them on her own. But as the knot expert on the 20/20 explained, they were not the kind of knots average people would know how to use. JMO, the knots are a very real weakness in Adam's defense. They have no legit means of explaining them away.

Excellent points, Betty P!

I have always felt that the path to RZ's murderer(s) begins with the TRUTH surrounding little Maxie's accident. In particular, who else was there at the mansion when he fell. We never saw proof that JS' teens were on that early morning flight and that JS was indeed at the gym. Until proven otherwise, it is very well possible there was planking going on (as was reported very early on).

Bremner said Zahau was not alone in the mansion when Max had his accident. She said that two of the child's teenage siblings were present and that Zahau was in the shower at the time of the accident.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...death-ruled-suicide-family-objects/50233234/1

Within this scenario, IMO in an effort to protect his teens, did JS tell them to hide in the guesthouse, then instruct RZ to say she and her sister X were alone when calling 911 before he ran out the house? And perhaps the following day, sensing RZ was not comfortable with taking the blame, he realized she had become a liability, thus unleashed the "dog(s)" to silence her? This would explain JS' obvious disdain and anger towards her, even to this day, as well as his vested interest in perpetuating and maintaining the suicide meme (to protect his own neck, no pun intended).

IMO brother AS had no real motive to murder RZ other than to fulfill his brother's (and even perhaps their father's) will. AFAIK he never even visited Max at the hospital. Please note this is complete conjecture on my part and only MO. Also IMO it's possible that one thing lead to another, thus the sexual assault. Just as K_Z previously asked, is his Ambien use that night going to play into his defense strategy?

As to the knots, IMO the most damning evidence pointing towards Adam having tied the knots is the tugboat hitch that was used for the noose. The Tugboat Hitch requires 3 wraps around a bollard, in this case a neck. It is virtually impossible to make a Tugboat Hitch without a bollard. RZ could NOT have tied it around her own neck. No. Way. IMO the use of a Tugboat Hitch rather than a simple Hangman's noose is a huge RED FLAG for the defense.

If interested, here is the link to previous discussion about the Tugboat Hitch, with video by our mighty Cynic and illustrations:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...13-2013-in-California&p=10880429#post10880429

 

[coastal]

I just watched the 20/20 clips Lash kindly posted, here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ia-links-amp-Timelines-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page12

Meh. Nothing really new, IMO, and a lot of TV-type sound bites. Here's one bit that did stand out:

https://t.co/lJXF4nbgcy

Jonah Shacknai: "Mr Greer hopes the money will come from me. I will never pay Mr. Greer a dime."

The scene changes.

Narrator: "The verdict is probably a month away, but no decision will bring little Max back to his mother."

Cut to Dina, crying: "I've never been as happy as I was, with Max..."

...The house will never be the same...Rebecca's and Maxie's families will never be the same...Anne rule says we may never know what happened...end.


I'm dizzy from the spin.

 

[Emi]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020 here are highlites and the whole episode is uploaded

 

[OverthinksIt]

Mr. Greer, is there ANY possibility that Jonah Shacknai could have left the hospital/Ronald McDonald House at any time during the night of Rebecca’s murder? How often was Jonah actually seen on camera footage throughout that night ?

I ask because, knowing both the environs and security setups of the hospital and Ronald McDonald House very well at that time, Darrin Wessel’s (Nina’s attorney) explanation at the April 20, 2017 press conference of why Jonah was apparently missing on camera footage at a certain point doesn’t make sense for multiple reasons I won’t get into here.

In fact, unless he was accompanied by a staff member and there’s an underground tunnel I don’t know about, I would go so far to say it’s pretty near impossible. (Plus, there wouldn't have been press there at that point.)

To refresh, this is the exchange from the 4-27-17 press conference Q&A I’m referring to:

“REPORTER: Is there similar video tape from Rady’s showing Jonah in and out and there that entire night?

“WESSEL: There is some footage, um, we know that there were a couple of doors at the hospital that, uh, were not, covered, uh, fully by camera coverage that was used by Jonah to exit the hospital to avoid any, uh, media coverage, um, the McDona--, Ronald McDonald House had, uh, coverage which showed him present, uh, but there are some time gaps that, at this point, we have not narrowed down yet.”

Perhaps he was just mistaken? Any clarification you can provide publicly would be great. Thank you.

 

[Hazelnutty]

I tried, sorry Rebecca; Jonah turned my stomach until I tasted bile. The worst of the worst and the most plastic man alive. Sickening.

He does seem like a mean, coldhearted individual. Very tense. Restrained?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

 

[Lezah]

I still think she was never hung from the balcony and was killed somewhere in the house. This explains no DNA on the rope cut and the lack of footprints on the balcony, and the issue of the bed inconsistent movement. It was tugged to appear she was hung. The fall would have ‘virtually decapitated her’ which was not the case too...

The house was covered with stucco, which is sharp. If someone pushed you hard against a wall, while you were running away naked, would it cause the numerous pinprick lacerations on her back? Mr Greer said that the injuries were underneath her arms behind her back, the police said it was ‘foliage’ at the hanging site, but mt Greer says this does not make sense. Maybe the scream was heard when she was caught in this fashion. Do we know the time of the reported scream?

 

[Inparadise]

Mr. Greer, is there ANY possibility that Jonah Shacknai could have left the hospital/Ronald McDonald House at any time during the night of Rebecca’s murder? How often was Jonah actually seen on camera footage throughout that night ?

I ask because, knowing both the environs and security setups of the hospital and Ronald McDonald House very well at that time, Darrin Wessel’s (Nina’s attorney) explanation at the April 20, 2017 press conference of why Jonah was apparently missing on camera footage at a certain point doesn’t make sense for multiple reasons I won’t get into here.

In fact, unless he was accompanied by a staff member and there’s an underground tunnel I don’t know about, I would go so far to say it’s pretty near impossible. (Plus, there wouldn't have been press there at that point.)

To refresh, this is the exchange from the 4-27-17 press conference Q&A I’m referring to:

“REPORTER: Is there similar video tape from Rady’s showing Jonah in and out and there that entire night?

“WESSEL: There is some footage, um, we know that there were a couple of doors at the hospital that, uh, were not, covered, uh, fully by camera coverage that was used by Jonah to exit the hospital to avoid any, uh, media coverage, um, the McDona--, Ronald McDonald House had, uh, coverage which showed him present, uh, but there are some time gaps that, at this point, we have not narrowed down yet.”

Perhaps he was just mistaken? Any clarification you can provide publicly would be great. Thank you.

And what about his pal, Dr Howard Luber, that they supposedly dropped off at the San Diego Airport to return to Phoenix that evening. Did he really get on a plane, or grab a cab and head back to Coronado or Rady Children's Hospital to pick up JS? Easy enough to check if he did in fact fly back to Phoenix that night, but my instinct tells me he didn't.

 

[Kittybunny]

Hi all, I usually lurk here as you all are so much more knowledgeable about the nitty gritty details of this case but just had to share some impressions about some things that stuck out about last night's 20/20 episode. First of all, I think they usually try to make the episode balanced and keep the "mystery" alive by presenting "evidence" from both sides of the story. However, even as a casual viewer, I think the woman reporter they had commenting had the reaction that best encapsulates the ridiculous knots that SDSO tied itself into (pun intended) to come to the conclusion that this was suicide was her incredulous "Are you kidding me?" that she had in reaction to the ludicrous re-enactment of how Rebecca could have tied her hands behind her back and hung herself!

I admit, that for a long time, I was on the fence about whether this was a suicide or murder. Is it possible? Yes, people commit suicide naked, some people have bound themselves first, yes sometimes there's no DNA, maybe the woman who heard screams was mistaken, etc....Is it probable? HELL NO! I don't know how familiar you all are with statistics and probability but in order to calculate the odds of independent events happening simultaneously, you multiply probabilities. The more unlikely the event and the more events you have, the lower the probability is that it was all a coincidence. So let's be really generous and say that each of the following events had a 10% chance of happening randomly or just overall:

1. Nude suicide
2. Hands tied by the person committing suicide
3. Cryptic message hand-painted
4. Improbable climbing over balcony
5. No DNA from "rescuer"
6. Doorknobs wiped clean
7. Randomly being able to tie complex knots

Multiplying each of these probabilities = 10% to the 7th power = 0.0000001 = 1 in 10 million chance that this happened as SDSO proposes!

That doesn't even include motive, means, and opportunity, plus the clear confirmation bias that SDSO exhibited and the chances that RZ committed suicide are about one in a billion, IMHO!

Note to SDSO: Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's probable!

Justice for Rebecca. Peace and closure for her family.

 

[inthedark14]

Finally had a chance to watch 20/20 special.

There are definitely a lot of things left out and some outright wrong. The mention of the hanging room as "Rebecca's Room" is weird. That they did not mention the panties in the guest house or Rebecca's missing clothes. Though they did talk of reopening the case and alluded to the mishandling of the investigation.

There are SO many things wrong with the way these deaths were investigated. You could definitely hear a ring of the tone we have all heard for years from those who support the suicide ruling. I definitely thought what they showed about AS made him appear highly suspicious.

Also can totally see why JS' handlers would have wanted to keep him away from the media. Yikes. Totally heebie jeebies from him. Very cold behind a carefully held veneer.

The whole witchcraft thing has me scratching my head too. Remember all the fuss about that housekeeper movie? IIRC there was some talk about a book about bondage but certainly not witchcraft. No mention of the movie now either.

I hope all this attention and the civil trial get BOTH Rebecca and Max's cases reopened and there is justice for them both.

This has always stunk to high heaven and will never pass the smell test unless it is properly investigated.

ALWAYS MOO

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

Dina has been 100 percent cleared. Zahau civil attorney Keith Greer has apologized to Dina for saying she was involved.

Please do not bring up Dina at all if you are going to say she had anything to do with the death of Rebecca.

Unless it is to discuss Dina's testimony or statements let's leave her out of it if we can. Dina lost her son, was accused of murder, don't you think she has been through enough without having strangers still accusing her of murder?

 

[Lezah]

I still think she was never hung from the balcony and was killed somewhere in the house. This explains no DNA on the rope cut and the lack of footprints on the balcony, and the issue of the bed inconsistent movement. It was tugged to appear she was hung. The fall would have ‘virtually decapitated her’ which was not the case too...

The house was covered with stucco, which is sharp. If someone pushed you hard against a wall, while you were running away naked, would it cause the numerous pinprick lacerations on her back? Mr Greer said that the injuries were underneath her arms behind her back, the police said it was ‘foliage’ at the hanging site, but mt Greer says this does not make sense. Maybe the scream was heard when she was caught in this fashion. Do we know the time of the reported scream?

Adam Shacknai Lie detector test video
https://youtu.be/ppRDQ7yfymg

 

[Lezah]

I still think she was never hung from the balcony and was killed somewhere in the house. This explains no DNA on the rope cut and the lack of footprints on the balcony, and the issue of the bed inconsistent movement. It was tugged to appear she was hung. The fall would have ‘virtually decapitated her’ which was not the case too...

The house was covered with stucco, which is sharp. If someone pushed you hard against a wall, while you were running away naked, would it cause the numerous pinprick lacerations on her back? Mr Greer said that the injuries were underneath her arms behind her back, the police said it was ‘foliage’ at the hanging site, but mt Greer says this does not make sense. Maybe the scream was heard when she was caught in this fashion. Do we know the time of the reported scream?

Adam Shacknai Lie detector test video
https://youtu.be/ppRDQ7yfymg

And 911 call

https://youtu.be/nyGs0d2d-ck

 

[Imp]

<snipped for space>

Meh. Nothing really new, IMO, and a lot of TV-type sound bites. Here's one bit that did stand out:

https://t.co/lJXF4nbgcy

Jonah Shacknai: "Mr Greer hopes the money will come from me. I will never pay Mr. Greer a dime."

Wow. Jonah's making no bones about what's most important to him, is he?

 

[Betty P]

I just watched the 20/20 clips Lash kindly posted, here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ia-links-amp-Timelines-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page12

Meh. Nothing really new, IMO, and a lot of TV-type sound bites. Here's one bit that did stand out:

https://t.co/lJXF4nbgcy

Jonah Shacknai: "Mr Greer hopes the money will come from me. I will never pay Mr. Greer a dime."

The scene changes.

Narrator: "The verdict is probably a month away, but no decision will bring little Max back to his mother."

Cut to Dina, crying: "I've never been as happy as I was, with Max..."

...The house will never be the same...Rebecca's and Maxie's families will never be the same...Anne rule says we may never know what happened...end.


I'm dizzy from the spin.

Yes, the quoting of the (flawed) Ann Rule short story and the constant discussion of Max is classic Shacknai / Romano deflection. They don't want anyone to contemplate for a moment that this is a trial about Rebecca's murder. Their supporters/surrogates used the same tactics here at WS, always trying to move the discussion away from RZ's death to focus on Max only.

 

[Inparadise]

Wow. Jonah's making no bones about what's most important to him, is he?

Jonah is important to Jonah.........