WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #1

[Shadow205]

No problem, I will share whatever I find out. As for the other forum, that IS a good one and I have posted there as well. It sounded as though the 1968 photo had been posted somewhere and that's what threw me. PS I'm "hess" on that one.

As for my small world comment earlier, I mentioned this to a lady I've known for years and she also had met one of the siblings in her travels but he seemed very willing to talk about it. Unfortunately, we couldn't pin down exactly which sib she had met.

I'm beginning to believe that the Sodders pretty much knew who took the children, but could get no justice against them. I think the billboard was used as a means to "shame" local law enforcement for not having the grit to stand up against them. Once again, this takes me back to my Mafia theory. I have heard plenty of stories that indicates organized crime was alive and well in the Smithers, Montgomery....area of Fayette County well into the 1960's and 70's. In fact, George and Jenny bought the property in Fayetteville in 1935 (put in her name only) and moved there from Smithers. Martha and Maurice were listed as being born in Smithers on their death certificates and the younger 3 in Fayetteville.

So there is death certificates? I wondered about that. Interesting.

 

[fox1950]

Yes, Butler, put in Fayette County Gen. Forum-put in the name Sodder on all forums and you will find several messages related to the mystery. However, you will have to weed through them-there are others named Sodder who have posted that are not related to the mystery.

 

[shadowangel]

Has anything been discovered which states when the son in the military actually returned home?

 

[Shadow205]

Fox, check out this web site, he has an extensive list of old detective magazines. I sent him an email, he does not have the issue in stock with the Sodder mystery in it but was familiar with the story. He will email me if he can locate the issue. http://www.patterson-smith.com/MagList.htm

I agree with you. It could look more that Maurice because he is older. I thought about that too. No, I do not know where you can find the detective magazine. I know I had a copy when it first came out, however, through many moves it has been lost. I know of one other copy someone had-an aunt of a friend. She sent her copy to "Unsolved Mysteries". When they contacted the eldest brother, John (I think) he did not want to do the story. Probably thought it was another prank or something, since now I read that the baby sister is interested in where the children went. Remember, this was in the early to mid 1990-s and caller ID were just getting started. So perhaps John thought it was a prank. I've been looking on E-bay, willing to pay what it's costs to purchase it, but I have been unable to find it. Remember, until recently you could buy detective magazines-they came out monthly. Some of the younger folks don't know that. I was hooked on detective magazines, still look for old ones at flea markets, etc. but can't seem to locate any old one except on ebay.


As for the man looking like the Sodders, he certainly does. Have tried to decode the message on the back-"Louis Sodder", "I love brother Frankie"
ilil boys, "A90132 or 35". Don't know what it means. Of course, a lot of people could look like the Sodders and it could have been an ugly prank. Only a expert would know for sure. I think I heard or read recently it was mail from Kentucky.

Fayette County Geneology Board has some postings-as well as Jonathan used to have a site. Don't know if Jonathan's site is still there. I put in Sodder family forum and found it a long time ago. Good luck!

 

[shadowangel]

I also know someone who collects old detective mags-he claims "if he ain't got it, it weren't printed". I'll reach out to him.

It would be interesting to find out if the youngest daughter has any memory of the "incendiary device" she was reported to have found, and what finally became of it...

 

[Shadow205]

I have found some very interesting reading concerning the West Virginia Mine Wars & Italian Immigrants. The article at this link is very long but really offers some insight as to what life was like in Fayette county in the early 1900's. Well worth reading. http://www.marshall.edu/csega/piecingittogether/Papers%20in%20.pdf%20and%20.doc%20formats/MineWars.pdf



This is an exerpt from another article:
Unionization had always met fierce resistance from coal operators, who used eviction, termination, blacklisting, yellow dog contracts, court injunctions, coercion, and intimidation to prevent workers from joining unions and to stifle union organizers. By the early twentieth century, especially in the eastern United States, coal operators held and exercised exclusive political control and strongly influenced local and state governments, literally dictating state policies that would insure coal profits, prevent labor organization, and guarantee a passive work force. more at this link http://www.geocities.com/MadisonAvenue/Boardroom/4278/wvh.htm

These articles really make me wonder just who Mr. Sodder might have had a conflict with. We know that he had a trucking company so odds are that his work was in some way related to the coal industry. Though the mining wars took place in the 1920's, things were still not that smooth between the coal operators and the union.

 

[Stacy Horn]

I found that, too! I'm trying to get some definitive information about the mafia presence in West Virginia. I've reached out to a number of people, and am waiting to hear, but so far I haven't been able to confirm that there was organized crime in West Virginia in 1945.

Someone suggested trying to find out who the crime reporters were in the area at the time, they'd know.

Lbutler, how did you hear about the mafia in Smithers and Mountgomery? And how on earth did you get to see the death certificates for the children??

And Shadow205, I love that you tracked down the 1967 detective magazine!! So excitiing!!

 

[Stacy Horn]

Okay, just heard from someone who would know, and he confirms that the mafia had a presence in West Virginia in 1945. I'll post more details when I have them.

 

[shadowangel]

Most mine owners/operators used independent truckers, such as Sodder, to transport their coal from the mine to either processing facilites or to the railroad for transport out of state. These truckers were seen as agents of the mine owners, and to the unionized miners they were targets. Same today as it was then, there are still stories of the drivers being shot at during strikes.

If there was Mafia involvement in those days, it most likely was directed toward these independent truckers (much as with trucking in other parts of the country, or sanitation [garbage] trucking in NYC).
There was a large influx of Italian, German, and Polish immigrants into the area in the early part of the 1900's, destined for work in the mines. Loyalty to their home countries among some of these immigrants probably remained strong. I can understand strife developing between immigrants who remained loyal to their home countries and those who fully embraced their new home. Sometimes immigrants were the most outspoken in their devotion to their new home.

 

[Shadow205]

Does anyone have aprogram that they might be able to use to clean up this picture a little? I would love to know what all of the writting says.

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Ewvrcbiog/No4a.jpg

Does anyone have aprogram that they might be able to use to clean up this picture a little? I would love to know what all of the writting says.

I can't make out all of it, hopefully someone can clean this up a little.

It's obvious the Sodders felt their children were kidnapped and the house was set on fire to cover up the crime. For some reason, I hadn't been looking at it that way. I thought the house was set on fire for another reason, and the kidnapping was a crime of opportunity - the kids were outside, someone took them. But maybe I was looking at it wrong, and the kidnapping was the primary reason for the fire - someone wanted to make it seem that the kids had perished in the house fire.

A $10,000 reward was a heck of a lot of money back then. I wonder where the money came from?

 

[LButler]

I'll answer several questions in one post ....

Death certificates of the children - I went to the Fayette County Courthouse and looked up the death records that are public info. So, not to mislead, there were not the actual certificates, just what is on file with the county.

Mafia knowledge - when you've lived your entire life in one place, some things are just "known." My dad has been in the coal business his entire life, he's worked for some Italians, people know things that went on within these communities. A good friend of mine grew up in Montgomery, her dad had a business, they were catholic, they dealt with the Italians all the time. Small town "knowledge" of how and why things happen. Which has always stumped me why no one knew the answer to the missing kids. PS in the 60's in Smithers WV - 15% of the population was irish, 14% was Italian, next largest group, English 8%.

I'm still not convinced on the union, coal war angle. Normally, the only violence that took place would be at the site of an actual "picket." I had a family member killed in the Widen, WV skirmish. These were really hard-working, god-fearing people that had families and I have not heard any accounts of violence against innocent children in regards to the coal wars. I asked my dad about that angle as well and he doesn't go with it either. Also, I don't think anything that happened as a result of a coal skirmish could have been kept quiet for all these years. this abduction and cover-up had some sophistication or expertise to it and most of the coal miners were not even high school graduates at the time. I just don't think we're looking at a group that could pull this off. It was between mine owners (who did not want the unions) and the workers who fought to have the mines unionized (for better wages, safety...). I can't see a trucker so embroiled in it that his home would have been burnt and his children taken. Just my opinion on that.

The picture of Louis that arrived in 1968 was postmarked Central City, KY. I too have tried to decoded the message on the back of the picture. It struck me as being written by a child or someone unfamiliar with English. I would love to see the actual handwriting.

I have also contacted the Patterson guy with the detective mags trying to locate the ONE. He's working on it.

I have seen a better picture of the original billboard that is in the article (the link that is posted here). The one in the book is the second one they erected after the picture of Louis arrived. I will do my best to locate that "better" photo (I can remember that you could read it) and post what the billboard said.

 

[LButler]

Oh, one other thing...I think that the $10K reward was probably put up by the family. Lots of people became millionaires in the coal business in the 30's and 40's (plenty of them still around) and it was a good business to be in at that time. Also, her maiden name was Cipriani and her family was in Smithers. The Italians in the Smithers/Montgomery/Charleston area were VERY wealthy.

 

[Stacy Horn]

A soon-to-be new member of this forum asked me to let everyone know that her husband, a professional photograper, is going to try to clean up the photograph!

What a great place this is, that it brings all these people with so many different and useful skills together.

 

[Shadow205]

Stacy, that is great! It looks like there is alot of information on there if we could just read it.

A soon-to-be new member of this forum asked me to let everyone know that her husband, a professional photograper, is going to try to clean up the photograph!

What a great place this is, that it brings all these people with so many different and useful skills together.

 

[fox1950]

Thanks to everyone looking for the magazine. Another angle to the mystery that I thought might be interesting is: If the children remained in the United States and were not killed, there would have had to attend school somewhere.
That would mean that there are other people who were children at the time who would have gone to school with these children, whether they were separated or kept together. So, If someone went to school with them they would probably recognize them if they saw some really good pictures of the children. Too bad some TV program can't be enlisted like 48 hours mysteries to do a show on it.

Also, could be reading something into nothing, but isn't it interesting that the 1967 picture was addressed to Mrs. Sodder solely. Not Mr. & Mrs. Sodder.

 

[LButler]

fox ... i may know the answer to the "Mrs. Sodder" only address. The property they purchased in Fayetteville in 1935 (where they lived at the time of the fire and after) was deeded in her name only according to the Fayette County records. If someone called the Courthouse to get an address for them from the current tax addresses, it would have been in her name only?

 

[shadowangel]

http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm146854.html

Look at this website and put Louis Sodder in the search engine-someone
has posted a search for him.

I believe I may have found this person...All the info matches, and the address is 25 miles from Fayetteville. If anyone is interested, PM me.

 

[LButler]

Hey guys and gals...I hope to be going back to the Fayette County Courthouse on Monday or Tuesday. There's a name that I want to check up on from this time period. Anybody have any requests or ideas of things in the public records that I could take a look at? I also plan to pop in to the police office and see what is considered "public" there. Can anyone help me on that one? I've always found you can achieve a lot more if you are informed, but I'm not on that one.


Any ideas or suggestions, I'll make a note and see what I can find out!!

 

[Shadow205]

You might want to check with Stacy Horne.We don't want to do anything that will mess up the research that she is doing for the story that she is doing on the Sodder's. Going to the police department right now might raise some red flags that don't need raised just yet. That is why I have not been yet.

Hey guys and gals...I hope to be going back to the Fayette County Courthouse on Monday or Tuesday. There's a name that I want to check up on from this time period. Anybody have any requests or ideas of things in the public records that I could take a look at? I also plan to pop in to the police office and see what is considered "public" there. Can anyone help me on that one? I've always found you can achieve a lot more if you are informed, but I'm not on that one.


Any ideas or suggestions, I'll make a note and see what I can find out!!