WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #1

[mysteriew]

Beautiful article Stacy. Well organized, comprehensive and it encompasses the mystery that surrounds this case.
I could almost believe the children were killed in the fire, until I got to the part about the fire chief's actions. That and the delay in the fire dept. Why even have a fire dept. if it is going to take 7 hrs. to get enough of them together to respond to a fire. That just doesn't ring true.
I can't get over that fire chief. His actions make be wonder if he could have been involved somehow. I wonder if any of his family or friends in another city ended up with a ready made family.
I am glad the family is working to keep the story alive. I wish that somehow it could be solved.

 

[Shadow205]

Very nice story Stacy. I am so glad to see the story get some media attention. I am sorry that we were not able to meet while you were in WV. I have some questions that I hope you were able to get some information on from Sylvia...Does she or some surviving family member still have the picture that was sent to George & Jennie that was supposedly Louis? If so, did you get to see it? Do you know what school in NY the school picture was from that George thought was Betty? In your story, you said that a search was done for bodies right after the fire and that some vertebra were found. I thought that the vertebra were found when a search was conducted after the fill dirt had been dumped on the site of the fire. The way that I understood it was that they determined that the vertebra was brought to the site in the fill dirt.

According to the mortician who arrived at the scene 12 hours after the fire "I raked the ashes for an hour and didn't find even a bone of any kind. In view of this fact and considering the short length of time the house burned, it is is my opinion that the five Sodder children did not perish in the fire." <exerpt from WV Unsolved Murders by George & Melody Bragg>
also taken from the book : A Cincinnati Cremation Company was contacted concerning the temperature required to destroy a human body. The company representative offered this information:"It has been our experience that human remains being placed in our Cremation Chambers for a period of approximately two(2) hours with an average temperature of 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit will completely disappear except for the bones which remain intact of sufficient size that parts therefore can be recognized as parts of human skeleton."

Could the fire at the Sodder house have burned so hotly that it could have accomplished what two (2) hours at 2,000 degrees could not and destroy bones?

IMO, I think not. From personal experience, I have been on the scene of house fires and have seen the chared remains. But there were remains, unlike at the site of the Sodder family fire.

 

[H0NEYWEST]

Nice work Stacy! I actually got to hear most of it driving home from work.

 

[CW]

I want to share this picture with you all I took it a number of years back. I was born in WV. My father and mother was born and raised in WV. My father didn't want to work in the coal mines his uncle told him Ford Motor Company had opened a new plant so when I was a year old he moved our family to Indiana but we would go back to WV 3-4 times a year because that's where all our family was from. Here is a pix of Hawks Nest it's just breath taking.

 

[CW]

This is a overview of Hawks Nest.

 

[Stacy Horn]

I'm putting together some of the information that was cut from my piece in order to get it down to 8 minutes, and putting it on my blog. It addresses a lot of these questions.

No, I didn't see the picture that was sent to the family! I wish I had.

About finding the school in New York where George thought he spotted Betty. This was my thinking -- George Sodder proved again and again that he would spend what he had to, and travel where he could in order to find his children. He traveled all over the country, even until the last year of his life, when he was so ill he had to lay down in the car the entire time. If he didn't follow-up his New York visit, by either going back himself with proper identification, or by asking law enforcement to look into it, he must have been satisfied that the child wasn't Betty.

 

[fox1950]

Thanks Stacy Horn for taking time out of your busy schedule to do this. I pray one day Sylvia will get the answers she is looking for. However, why did anyone not tell the Sodders they had found something? According the book, and I do not have it in front of me, the Sodders were told that nothing was found in the fire. Mr. Sodder and his son, John, through both were hurt, also searched through those ashes in the early morning hours after the fire and found nothing. Also if my memory serves me right, Mr. Sodder was told to cover the area up and make a memorial. Being that he and Mrs. Sodder were both heartbroken they accepted what they were told and did what others ask. The telephone line to the house was cut-the phone call. Why would someone let Mr. Sodder run around the country for the next 25 years and not tell him they found the partial parts of some of the children? If Mr. Sodder was told this he would not have spend $15,000 searching for the children.
What happened to the big stuff that the fire would not burn. The stove,
other stuff like pots and pans, etc. And lastly, where in history has it been written that this sort of thing happened and nothing (according to what is written) was not found after like the bones. The funeral home bought two ambulances to take the remains away. Why were the some piece they found during the search taken away and not left at the scene. Also, if the children were there what was the area not dug up and a search done again. Mr. Sodder had the equipment if someone would have come forward and said we found something.

Thanks again, Stacy. Hope you can point some of us in the right direction that are very confused.

 

[LButler]

60 years ago tonight, these 5 kids disappeared. They were not in the house when the fire started. I have never heard of one single instance where "remains" could not be located in the ashes after a house fire. Even tiny babies can be id'ed as "bodies" after a fire.

I still think they lived that night. I think anyone mean enough (or vindictive enough) to snuff out the lives of 5 children would also want people to hear about it - I think in this amount of time, someone would have talked had the kids been killed. I just hope they ended up somewhere warm and that they were loved. And, maybe we aren't allowed to have the answers because it would be too hard for them at this point??

Merry Christmas!!

 

[mysteriew]

I wonder what Mr. and Mrs. Sodders relationship to the fire chief was. Had there been a confrontation between them in the past, or some type of grudge? I mean the story that he buried some remains on his own without telling anyone, is bizarre enough. But then to find a beef liver when they dug it up- it certainly points to a coverup. Stacy, did you get a chance to talk to any of the chief's family to see what they had to say? Did you hear anything like rumors about the Sodder's family reputation toward the kids? (I know that is not typically a politically correct question in this situation, but could have bearing). Were the chief and the Sodders connected in any way?
And why the h*!! didn't LE get involved, when the story about the remains being buried and dug up became known?
Stacy, did you check police reports while you were there?

 

[shadowangel]

Its interesting to hear the speculation of fire experts 60 years after the event, but this answers no more questions for me than before hearing the NPR piece.

If pieces of bone and internal organs were found, what became of them? Were they confirmed as human? Could they merely have been remants of dinner?

If the fire was so intense, as is being speculated, that mere pieces of bone survived, how did identifiable pieces of internal organ also survive?

George Sodder waited a week before burying the scene of the fire-- how should we view the fire marshal waiting more than a week to return?

"If the Mafia were active in West Virginia..." I think that is fact, unless what I have read is pure falsehood. And to liken the possibility of the children being kidnapped-either by Mafia, family members or an illegal adoption group-to alien abduction is irresponsible and, in my mind, immature.

Do I know what happened 60 years ago? No. Do I think the answer can be found? Yes.


You know me, Mr. Cynical. Always wanting proof.

 

[drema]

Thank you Stacy for your efforts. However, I am ever more confused or shall I say convinced that there was a massive cover up in this event. I do not believe that there were bones found that morning or any other part of the children. If someone can come forward and tell me scienfically how 5 children could burn in a fire for 30-45 minutes and nothing be found then maybe I will change my mind. The vetebra found after the fire was never exposed to fire or heat. Nothing adds up. How could any one stand by and see and old man, sick and in the last year of his life search for these children and never come forward and say-oh, we did find something in the ashes? I am sure Mr. and Mrs. Sodder were able to read all the reports-why was this not in the reports?

 

[fox1950]

To anyone unfamiliar with the story - here are some of my thoughts on the report and how it differs from what the Sodders approved in the book "WV Unsolved Murders" - "Jennie woke up. She heard a noise. Somebody had thrown something on the roof. She got up and checked that out, and went back to bed. She woke up about a half-hour later, and she smelled smoke. She got up and realized one of the rooms where their office was [located] was on fire. Jennie also received a call from someone saying it was a wrong number a half hour before something being thrown on the roof. Also a bus driver reported balls of fire flying through the air as he passed by the area that night. She screamed for her husband and woke him up, and they both hollered upstairs where two of the boys were."
Were there not four boys who were supposed to be sleeping in that room that night-John, George Maurice, and Louis? The girls were supposed to be sleeping in the back - Jennie, Martha, and Betty.

Neighbors reached Chief F. J. Morris at the Fayetteville Fire Department a little after 1 a.m. By then, it was already Christmas. Firefighters were told that children were trapped inside, but no fire truck was sent until 8 a.m. -- seven hours later. Chief Morris is long dead. But another retired fire chief, Steve Cruikshank, tried to explain the delay. He says the fire department didn't even have a siren back then. When somebody called to report an incident, an operator would take the call and rouse a firefighter, who would then have to reach fellow firefighters one by one. The fire chief could not drive the truck and so many young men were taken away by the war and he had to wait to reach someone who could drive the truck.
What happened next unfolded in such a way as to almost guarantee that the story of the Sodder fire would be forever surrounded by misinformation, wishful thinking and rumor.

All that remained of the Sodder house was a basement full of ashes. A brief, informal search took place, but instead of the skeletons they expected to find, firefighters encountered just a few bones and pieces of internal organs. The family was never told that anything was found. Because it was Christmas, a more thorough search was postponed. By the time the fire department arrived after 7 a.m., a search was made of the area. More than a dozen men joined in the search. Even the two older brothers and Mr. Sodder joined in the search. By 10:a.m. the Sodders were approached by the fire department and told they were unable to find any trace of the children. In their opinion all traces of the children's bodies were consumed in the fire.

The fire marshal told the Sodder family to leave the site as it was. He said authorities would come back and finish inspecting things later. But the father, George Sodder, ignored the fire marshal. Less than a week later, he bulldozed four or five feet of dirt onto what was left of his home. The family planted flowers, a shrine to their lost children. In the opinion of the fire chief the bodies of the children were consumed by the fire completely. He and Mr. Sodder went to the scene and he recommended to Mr. Sodder that he place some of the ashes from the fire in a box and a funeral ceremony conducted. Consumed by grief the Sodders accepted what was told to them by authories and began making plans to preserve the memories of their children. (Why, if something was found was it not placed in the box?)


Around the same time, Fayetteville Fire Chief Morris added a bizarre twist to the story. According to Unsolved Murders author Bragg, Morris told the Sodders that he had recovered a body part from the site of the fire and buried it in a box there.

If the box of remains could be recovered, that would be proof that the children had died that night. The family could finally move on. George Sodder and a private investigator asked Morris to show them where he'd buried the box.

"They got together and dug the box up," Bragg says. "They took it straight to a funeral home and asked the person in charge there to open the box and examine the interior. When he did open that box, he found what looked like a fresh beef liver."

In August 1949 a new detective stated there needed to be an expert examine the scene. A pathologist from Washington, DC came to the scene of the fire and the area was excavated in search of any evidence that the children died in the fire. Several small articles were found, coins, a partically burned dictionary. The only human remains found there was a small section of veterbrae. The veterbrae was believed to be from a boy older than 14 year old Maurice and had no evidence of being exposed to fire. Also, the report stated that in view of the very short time the house burned the full skeleton of five children should have been found. (Smithsonian Institute)



And through it all, the Sodder family clung to hope. After all, no one had seen the children at the windows, crying for help. But that's not unusual, says West Virginia State Fire Marshall Sterling Lewis. He says that when young children feel heat and smell smoke, they are likely to hide. "We find them under beds. We find them in closets. We find them crawled up in the bathtubs," Lewis says. One of the children was 14 which does not fit this profile. Also, why did no one smell burning flesh?


The youngest child who survived the fire, Sylvia Sodder Praxton, didn't want her voice recorded for NPR's story. What she did want: to fulfill her parent's wish to keep the story alive. MAY GOD BLESS YOU, SYLVIA, FOR KEEPING THE STORY ALIVE ACCORDING TO YOUR PARENTS WISHES.

 

[LButler]

fox ...

"Around the same time, Fayetteville Fire Chief Morris added a bizarre twist to the story. According to Unsolved Murders author Bragg, Morris told the Sodders that he had recovered a body part from the site of the fire and buried it in a box there."

According to the book, a local minister told the Sodders in 1947 that the FC had found a heart in the debris.

It was a few days before they could get in touch with the FC to have him dig up the "heart." When they did contact him and they went to the site, the beef liver was unearthed and taken to the mortuary for examination.

It was my interpretation that all of that was a set-up. The liver was raw but not decomposed - it was "planted" at the site just before the FC took George Sodder out there and dug it up. It was raw - never been in a fire. It was not rotten so it hadn't been buried at the site for 2 years.

shadowangel...

You may not consider the "mafia" or "illegal adoption" theories to be something you believe, but I think it's a little unfair to call them "immature."

 

[shadowangel]

shadowangel...

You may not consider the "mafia" or "illegal adoption" theories to be something you believe, but I think it's a little unfair to call them "immature."

Read my post again, please. I said no such thing.

I said that to state it is as likely the children were abducted by aliens as by the mafia or an illegal adoption agency is immature. Someone in Horn's radio spot did just that.
I have long been an advocate of the illegal adoption theory.

 

[Stacy Horn]

I'm posting sections that were cut from my piece on my blog tomorrow. They address most of these questions. We had to keep it under 8 minutes, alas. That's why I posted, for you guys, who are familiar with the story, the piece was not going to tell you much that you didn't already know (and it leaves a TON out that you do know). I'm sorry I'm not posting this sooner, but tomorrow!

But to address a few questions quickly:

The Sodders say that they were not told about the remains that were found on Christmas morning. I learned about this in a State Fire Marshall's report that was written a couple of years after the fact, when it became clear that the family did not believe the children died in the fire. The Fire Marshall went back and interviewed everyone who had taken part in the search and four people said they found remains, including a brother of Jennie Sodder's and a local priest. I don't know if Jennie's brother and the priest and others were being truthful. But this is what they told the State Fire Marshall. I also don't know what became of the remains, if they were left at the scene or why, but if they were left there, they would have been buried with everything else when Mr. Sodder filled the basement.

According to the State Police files, Fire Chief Morris didn't say he couldn't drive a truck. He told them he didn't get to the fire immediately because of weather issues, which is equally bizarre. As far as I was able to find out, it was very cold and windy, and there was snow and ice earlier in the day, but cars were able to drive by the house, so a fire truck should have been able to make it too.

Also, the fire chief and the fire marshall are two different people. Fire Chief Morris said a lot of things to the family, all nuts, and I asked everyone why he wasn't prosecuted for his behavior but apparently, none if was prosecutable at the time. So many things were said and done that were very unprofessional. Like not roping off the scene, and coming back in a timely manner to finish the search (Morris was the one who was told to take care of the remains that Christmas morning, for instance).

The mafia stuff -- I'm sorry if you were offended by his description. A lot of what he explained was cut out, but he described how the mafia operated and how this kind of thing was not at all the kind of thing that they would do. The main point being, if the mafia burned your house down, they would make very sure you knew that they were responsible. Do not hold on to the fact that he said "if." He was the one who was able to confirm that they did, in fact, have a presence at that time. He was just making a point.

A lot of your other questions will be addressed in what I post tomorrow, and again, I apologize for the delay.

I have offered to put the Sodder family in touch with the West Virginia State Police Cold Case Unit Sergeant who was able to find all the original reports. I also gave them the contact information for the Doe Network that was posted here.

Even though I lean towards one conclusion I want to state emphatically that I do not presume to know what happened that night, and because no physical evidence survives to this day, and key people are either dead or not talking, I'm not sure this can be known. I was able to uncover a few new facts, but I'm aware that they will add up differently for everyone.

 

[LButler]

Read my post again, please. I said no such thing.

I said that to state it is as likely the children were abducted by aliens as by the mafia or an illegal adoption agency is immature. Someone in Horn's radio spot did just that.
I have long been an advocate of the illegal adoption theory.

Sorry if I misread your post. I was in a crappy mood yesterday (should have been in a rubber room to prevent injuries to myself and others...).

Stacey, haven't posted this, but you did a great job on the story. Who knows,it could be the catalyst to finding answers.

Here's my thoughts:

Some of you folks understand this and some don't - WV Small Town "politics" are very quirky. You'd be amazed at the things that get swept under the rug because John Doe 1 is literally owned by John Doe 2 and Judge John Doe never likes to upset anyone (cause this is a small town and everybody knows everybody...) This cover-up of the fire does not surprise me at all. It only tells me that powerful people in Fayetteville were involved (and I have a couple of names in mind) and they flexed their muscle on this one. George or Jennie pissed someone off (excuse my language, I can't come up with a better image) and this was the price they paid. Sad, but, I think, very true.

 

[Stacy Horn]

That reminds me -- something I haven't looked into yet -- but what was the response of the neighbors at the time to the Fire Department not showing up until the next morning? That could have been their families, their children. Were they up in arms? Did they call for Morris's head?

 

[Shadow205]

I'm posting sections that were cut from my piece on my blog tomorrow. They address most of these questions. We had to keep it under 8 minutes, alas. That's why I posted, for you guys, who are familiar with the story, the piece was not going to tell you much that you didn't already know (and it leaves a TON out that you do know). I'm sorry I'm not posting this sooner, but tomorrow!

But to address a few questions quickly:

The Sodders say that they were not told about the remains that were found on Christmas morning. I learned about this in a State Fire Marshall's report that was written a couple of years after the fact, when it became clear that the family did not believe the children died in the fire. The Fire Marshall went back and interviewed everyone who had taken part in the search and four people said they found remains, including a brother of Jennie Sodder's and a local priest. I don't know if Jennie's brother and the priest and others were being truthful. But this is what they told the State Fire Marshall. I also don't know what became of the remains, if they were left at the scene or why, but if they were left there, they would have been buried with everything else when Mr. Sodder filled the basement.

According to the State Police files, Fire Chief Morris didn't say he couldn't drive a truck. He told them he didn't get to the fire immediately because of weather issues, which is equally bizarre. As far as I was able to find out, it was very cold and windy, and there was snow and ice earlier in the day, but cars were able to drive by the house, so a fire truck should have been able to make it too.

Also, the fire chief and the fire marshall are two different people. Fire Chief Morris said a lot of things to the family, all nuts, and I asked everyone why he wasn't prosecuted for his behavior but apparently, none if was prosecutable at the time. So many things were said and done that were very unprofessional. Like not roping off the scene, and coming back in a timely manner to finish the search (Morris was the one who was told to take care of the remains that Christmas morning, for instance).

The mafia stuff -- I'm sorry if you were offended by his description. A lot of what he explained was cut out, but he described how the mafia operated and how this kind of thing was not at all the kind of thing that they would do. The main point being, if the mafia burned your house down, they would make very sure you knew that they were responsible. Do not hold on to the fact that he said "if." He was the one who was able to confirm that they did, in fact, have a presence at that time. He was just making a point.

A lot of your other questions will be addressed in what I post tomorrow, and again, I apologize for the delay.

I have offered to put the Sodder family in touch with the West Virginia State Police Cold Case Unit Sergeant who was able to find all the original reports. I also gave them the contact information for the Doe Network that was posted here.

Even though I lean towards one conclusion I want to state emphatically that I do not presume to know what happened that night, and because no physical evidence survives to this day, and key people are either dead or not talking, I'm not sure this can be known. I was able to uncover a few new facts, but I'm aware that they will add up differently for everyone.

Stacy, what are the new facts?

 

[fox1950]

Thanks Stacy for your comments. Could you clarify one thing with the family. From what I have heard Mr. Sodder had the upstairs divided into two rooms. One for the boys in front, one for the girls in back. When John called to the children, were there not suppose to be two other boys in the room with him and George-Maurice and Louis. I don't think Maurice and Louis were sleeping in the back with their sisters, Betty, Jennie, and Martha, and Marion if she had fallen asleep on the couch that night.

Also, I know you, like the rest of us can not determine what happened that night but what is your theory? Please give us a clue.:clap:

 

[mysteriew]

I have offered to put the Sodder family in touch with the West Virginia State Police Cold Case Unit Sergeant who was able to find all the original reports. I also gave them the contact information for the Doe Network that was posted here.

Even though I lean towards one conclusion I want to state emphatically that I do not presume to know what happened that night, and because no physical evidence survives to this day, and key people are either dead or not talking, I'm not sure this can be known. I was able to uncover a few new facts, but I'm aware that they will add up differently for everyone.

Do you know if they are going to contact them? I hope they do. Has the site of the house ever been dug up? I don't really understand why authorities didn't do so at the time. I mean if you look at this from the authorities perspecive (if everything authorities said was true) there was a house fire, of unknown origin, children are presumed to have died in that fire, father is told that more investigation remained, and he buries the evidence (not accusing Mr. Sodder of anything, just trying to determine why investigation stopped). I would think they would have been out there digging to try to locate any remaining evidence and giving a serious look at Sodder. At least that is what would presumably happen today. Authorities stories just don't make sense.
Fire chief doesn't make sense.
If a dig was conducted today, could anything be found?