WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

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I have an idea. A new one.

Okay so tonight I was sitting at the bedside of my sick little boy, he has asthma and had to have a breathing treatment tonight. He is only two. As the air wafted by his face, I was thinking about this case. And an idea came to me.

George Sodder owned a trucking buisness at the time the children went missing. At the time, I was told, he did not own his own coal mines.

This is why a theory of mine was shot down, I thought perhaps the children went to play in one of the mines owned by Mr. Sodder and suffered from a cave in. But that idea didn't seem to pan out, as Mr. Sodder didn't own the mines.

Okay we know this::: The children usually did their chores. The night of the big fire, Mrs. Sodder came downstairs, and the children had NOT done their chores. She thought perhaps the excitement of the holiday and the toys had gotten them and they had gone to bed so she locked the door and closed the curtains before heading off to bed, believing the children to be asleep in their beds.

What if::: The children had left the door unlocked because they planned on coming back and not having a key of their own, they left the house?

It had in the past been theorized that the children may have become locked out of the home and been stuck outdoors... Why than, didn't they knock on the door to be allowed back inside? Were they afraid of becoming in trouble? Probably not. From what I hear, the Sodders were good wholesome loving parents who never lifted a hand to the children in anger. If this is true, why not knock on the door so you don't freeze outside?

A picture in my mind now emerges. Perhaps, they left the home, leaving the door unlocked and never returned. Many of us have gone over this scenario. We talk about kidnappers. Okay, so here is another question. What if the children left the home, heading somewhere, no one kidnapped them, but they were unable to return?

Picture it. It is Christmas eve. The children want to do something special for their parents. We have talked over this scenario too, but we have talked about presents. What if it was a present but not one wrapped and purchased from a store?

They could have headed to a mine. Why? So they could bring back some coal for dad to sell. It would be a Christmas present and in a child's mind, even in a 14 yr old's mind, if it came from an "Abandoned Mine", it wasn't really stealing was it?

They would have taken lanterns to see in the dark. Perhaps they had gone to this abandoned mine many times before, and were using tools to get as much coal as they could. A little one, I am thinking Betty may have put down her lantern and forgotten it, right by the house. A strong wind, and boom. Mom may have thought she heard something on the roof, but could it have possibly been the sound of a lantern, a glass lantern, smashing against a wall?

The kids go to this abandoned mine, do some digging and hit a bubble of carbon dioxide.

Below are facts on this deadly gas.

As noted, this colorless, odorless, poisonous gas (sometimes referred to as "white damp") is the most dangerous gas to be dealt with in a mine. Unlike carbon dioxide, which as the levels increase the density makes it sink, carbon monoxide is lighter than air and subsequently more deadly because of it. It can be caused by explosions either from fire damp or coal dust (thus being an integral part of after damp). In addition to being toxic, it is also very inflammable.

Carbon monoxide is so dangerous to humans because it is so readily absorbed by the blood—even more than just oxygen. Making it worse, the body is slow to "give it up," making treatment that much more difficult. Also, because the body continues to absorb the gas (death comes at 80% saturation), even low levels can build up in the body causing death. It is at about 0.02% that one begins feeling the effects—in this case, "slight giddiness, headache and breathlessness" (below that number, there are no real symptoms, though it's still indicative of a very real danger). If the level gets as high as 0.2%, death will take place in one to two hours. The amount of time before a fatality (from there on up), is dependent not only on the percentage of carbon monoxide, but the amount of exertion by the person.

Because, unlike carbon dioxide, flames won't extinguish or die down in the presence of carbon monoxide, one of the chief tests was done by bringing small animals, usually birds (the proverbial "canary in a coal mine") and mice. They would succumb much sooner than a full grown man or even a boy. It was not a perfect system, though, as a great deal of physical exertion could sometimes result in the human being affected before the animal.

---- This would explain why the children didn't make it home. This would explain why the children were never found. If they were in an abandoned mine that was ready to be totally sealed off, the bodies never would have been found. It's just a theory. I am going to call some people tomorrow, some of the local librarians there, and find out if they can find any information reguarding any mines fully sealed in the area soon after the Sodder fire. Hope I can find someone to help.
 
Good clear thinking Laura. I await any info you find out. I also wonder how far away (or how close) any of the mine entrances were to the Sodder home. I can envision your scenario of the children planning a surprise gift that has to be gotten that night but if the nearest mine were over a mile I'd be hardpressed to think the youngest would have been in on the venture. It was a cold night. I've even thought perhaps they had decided to go cut a small tree, since the family had not put one up due to (was it) the oldest not making it home in time for the holiday?

Again, I'm looking forward to hearing anything you find out. Hope your little boy is doing better!

*waving* Birdie... doing good here!

Thanks for bringing those ceritficates back up Seifsister, it's been a while since I had looked at them. They really make me sigh and ponder.
 
FYI-contact info has been shared and this is still in the works.

Audrey Stanton to Christine
show details Feb 11 (13 days ago) Reply

Hi Christine,
I'm so glad you e-mailed me around Thanksgiving about the Sodder case. I regret that I wasn't able to do another story. My editor thought it had been too soon since the last one ran. But, there is new hope now! I just received an e-mail from a screenwriting student who is very interested in writing about the case. His forwarded message is below. As you'll read, he's hopeful he can speak with some of the family members, and, if I recall correctly, you were instrumental in helping me get in touch with them. I hope you can do the same for him and, perhaps, shed some new light on this old mystery.

His e-mail address is, of course, with his message, so if you're interested in speaking with him, you could e-mail him. I've already told him I'd love to read the final project when he completes it. A new screenplay about the case would certainly make new headlines around here!

Thanks so much!
Audrey

Audrey Stanton
Features Editor
Beckley Newspapers/W.Va. South
801 N. Kanawha Street
Beckley, WV 25801
304-256-5643
www.wvsouth.com


Begin forwarded message:

From: hotshot <hotshotwriter@yahoo.com>
Date: February 10, 2009 6:42:51 PM EST
To: bnaudrey@register-herald.com
Subject: Missing Sodder Children Case

Hi,
My name is Jeff Haarsager and came across the piece you did about the missing Sodder children. I am finishing up my degree in Screenwriting at Metropolitan State University in Minneapolis, MN and am interested in writing about this case for my final screenplay project. I have done some searches to locate Sylvia Sodder Paxton and her daughter Jennie Henthorn but cannot locate them. From what I have read from other sources, they are very adament about keeping this case "alive" in the hopes that one day answers will turn up and give them peace of mind. My intentions are not to sensationalize their story in anyway, but to present their story as they've lived it in the hopes of bringing them closer to the truth.
If you have means to forward my address and e-mail to them, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to invade their privacy, but if they wanted to contact me, the ball would be in their court.
I thank you for your time and in the event you would like to talk to me about the case, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Sincerely,
Jeff Haarsager
hotshotwriter@yahoo.com
jhaarsager@yahoo.com
 
We have a good person to speak with! In one hour, I will be calling a librarian who has grown up in Fayetteville. She has lived there her entire life. She is an older woman. She should be able to answer my questions or the head librarian told me she may be able to give me phone numbers of ppl who CAN answer them, even if she cannot! We have hit a gold mine! :cat:

Let's hope she can help.
 
Okie dokie. So we had about a ten minute conversation. The librarian told me that there is and was a lot of forest around the Sodder's home. She was unsure as to where the mines lay in relation to the house. Local legend, (and everyone in town believes this), has it that the children were stolen or murdered by the mafia. She said ask anyone in town and they still, to this day believe one of two scenarios.

1. The mafia took the children to the old country and had them lead new lives.

2. The mafia took the children and tossed them over the gorge. There are some woods between the home the Sodders lived in and the gorge.

She didn't seem to want to talk much about anything different. She says she believes this because a pig's heart was found in the home, and that suggests the mob started the fire. The other thing, she told me, was the fire department never showed until after the fire was out. She said the fire department had many members, perhaps all of them, with ties to the mafia and they knew the fire was going to take place that night. She also told me that she knew for a fact that George Sodder had ties to the mob. She refused to explain how she knew but said she just knew.

She took my name and phone number and promised to pass it along to some local family members of the Sodder's. Lets hope she does.
 
Wow Laura... talking to a real live person these days is an accomplishment in and of itself! ;-)

Well, what she had to say leaves me thinking that the locals are pretty set in their way of remembering the incident (whether they were living at the time or not... just what is handed down...)

Wonder if there is any references to be found of pig hearts being considered mafia calling cards??

Hmm... more pondering to do.

Thanks for the report/update.
 
I have said all along that the Mafia kidnapped the kids and burned the house. Back in those days the Mafia and the coal miners were always feuding. Mr Sodder probably refused to pay his dues. I also said the same thing about the fire dept not showing up. They were probably afraid to because of the Mafia.
 
To me, it honestly does not sound like the mafia. With the exception of perhaps the pig's heart.

Here is why::: The mafia, if they were going to murder the children, would be apt to leave the bodies where they could be found. They liked to show someone why they should pay their dues, not leave a mystery. That's the first part I find confusing. If they killed the children, why would they hide the bodies or bury them somewhere? In my experience, the mob wasn't scared of retribution by the police or anyone else for that matter. And they would I think want Mr. Sodder to see the bodies, to put fear into him, to get him to pay those dues or whatever.

Next thing, I don't understand. If they took the kids why would they take the kids? It costs money to put children on a boat to Italy. It is a hassel to say the least, to take small children all the way to Italy. Would they really do that to the kids just take them to the old country and find families to adopt them? Wouldn't that just be a lot of money and time and hassel?

And if the photo of Betty was really of Betty, how did she wind up in New York while Louis if that photo was really of Louis, ended up in Italy? I'm just confused here about a few things. I am not saying it is impossible, it is possible, I just wonder about the motives for doing this sort of thing. And if they DID wind up in Italy, wouldn't they have attempted to go back to where they lived with their family? Even if it was just to see some graves, if they were told their parents and other siblings were killed?
 
:cat:Hold on a second... I have a thought. If the children heard the thing smack on the roof, and went outside before their mother arrived downstairs, it would explain the fact that the door was unlocked. The kids could have heard something smack onto the roof, and went outside because they believed it to be Santa. Maurice may have known better, but if his younger sisters and brothers all ran outside together, he would have no real choice but to follow to "keep them safe". And than mom locks the door. And they are stuck outside. Now, why didn't they knock on the door? Perhaps they saw the fire start. Perhaps they saw who started the fire. Perhaps this is the point when someone grabs them.
 
Laura You came up wth some very good idea's..

Fayetteville and Fayette County you got some very nice people live's there, I know a lot of people in that area including people very well conected in the courthouse..

I guess that why you never hear me say nothing too bad on them, They really good people at heart.. You might have a few bad apples but no more than other area's of USA...

I lived in Fayette County for a long time..I don't now but I did, Don't get me wrong I am not trying to say nothing to you, But that's Why it didnot surprise me none that you had all that great luck at the Library, They are just some of the finest people you ever want to meet... or some of them anyway...

Post #339/ I think that got a whole lot of truth in it of What really happened..
Really anybody mad at the Sodder Family would been mad at the old man not at the children, The children really did no harm what so ever over the Trucking Bussiness..

Myself Yes I believe the theory, The kids was not harm in any way but was taken away to live elsewhere where they could not have no contact with there family members...

Post # 343 / I think has a very good chance of really happen in real life, Santa or no Santa if something hit on your Tin Roof of your house and you awake enough to hear it good ofcourse you going outside see what hit it..

Plus you add what I feel had a lot to do with this mystery, A few if not more people drinking way too much Christmas eve and one thing lead the something else until the problem got way way out of hand, Thank's to the amount of Alcohol Consume that night..

This Might started as simple as, Complain about Old Man Sodder trying to undercut us on bid's per ton hauling coal,

Us go and show Old man Sodder what we can do if you fool with us tonight... We show him not to fool around with us again..

When the truth maybe Mr. Sodder just might been a little bit more Lucky than someone else in bussiness..

They very well could been a "Tax" on that bussiness of hauling coal or even running any type of bussiness during that time period..

And you can't just get one child that might saw you setting a fire that night , You end up just about having to get every child that was outside, that might saw you there trying to start a fire or what ever they was doing wrong, Then once you did that, What are you going to do with them???

Waking up with a bad hangover plus 5 kidnaped children looking at you, That would not be a bad hang over, That be a nightmare...

Was not was there was a person in the Glen Farris area or near Charleston that said they saw some of the children day or 2 after the fire at a Hotel or Motel in that area???

Mom 1/2 asleep might not woke up enough to think much about kids out in the cold and check the fire and check the door and just automatic lock the door out of a habit..

Now I have question about Locking Door part of this story .... I remember clear into 1970's it was very common people in WV did not even lock there doors to begin with at night unless they had major trouble before from other people in neighborhood....

Question for member of Sodder Family??? Did they have trouble at that house before??? Was locking doors common or uncommon at that household???

I really need to reread this whole thread again, Its so easy to miss something just stoping in and read this real fast....

Myself I never heard Sodder's ever had a working Coal Mine.... I could missed it...

Really Trucking Coal and Mining Coal is 2 complete different type of bussiness.... You really deal with complete different people daily to keep you bussiness going ...I know I been involved with both.. Ofcourse Trucking coal they mainly work with 1 or 2 Coal Mine Employees, Where Coal mining you work with a whole lot more people..

Where there is talk of both this confuse me greatly......You might not think them bussiness are that different but they are....

Mining Coal you got a whole lot of special costly equipment to run a Coal Mine..

Trucking Coal.. If I had a operating Coal mine I could put you in Trucking Bussiness giving you a 1 year contract to Truck my Coal for so much "per ton" and even Today I tell you if I was you I have few extra thousands dollars, But you could start a Trucking bussiness without a penny in your pocket just that contract paper in your hand and go to Mack or somewhere and they fix up you with trucks and monthly payments to make, Stop and get a Diesel tank with 3 to 4 thousands gallons of Diesel fuel, Couple extra tire's and wheels in case of flat tires and you are in Coal Trucking bussiness..

Not so with a Running Coal Mine that's completely different... It might not mean a lot to most of you, But to me This confuse me greatly what bussiness they was in leading up to that terrible night...

I even think I read they was not even Trucking Coal at that time but Trucking supplys from railroad station to area store's...???

You doing a great job Laura keep it up...

I really do think ever few months we keep getting more and more of this case open up where we can finally investigate it....

But I don't know I can't see anybody being so cold hearted to kill them kids over something they really had no part of...

I see it really as something that got way out of hand before somebody could stop it... Then they had to start covering there track's on it...

Kids in Coal Mines???? Maybe I have to give that a long shot...... Kids around coal camp's it's drove into there minds before they can walk TO STAY AWAY FROM ALL COAL MINES YOU GET KILLED THERE..

Even today kids still get killed but its mainly 1 or 2 a very small group.... More kids there the more they know just how dangerous Coal Mines are...

But we got to add that into a maybe it happen until we prove it could not of happened..
 
I've had a hard time wrapping my head around the mafia idea myself for various reasons. I think reading your post just now helped me clear it up in my own mind.

If I think of old school mafia such as those that controlled Chicago and those that built Las Vegas or those that ran the streets of New York... I can't see mafia connected to the Sodder children. But if I expand on "mob" I can venture into thinking of more localized groups or mobs of people who controlled their local areas/business dealings with mob-like mentality and ways. They wouldn't necessarily have to be connected with mafia such as those I mentioned above and therefore would likely do things their way... whether it left a mystery to outsiders or not.

The questions you bring up Laura are the ones I have as well. The why's. Why go to the trouble, why go to the expense, etc. And if this was done to teach some lesson or in retaliation... it was outwardly (and inwardly - considering family have the same questions we do now) apparent that Mr. Sodder did not "get the message". The Sodders searched for decades for what happened to their children... if they had a single clue that some person or some mob of people were responsible and for this or that reasoning... they would have investigated in that direction.

More to ponder.

To me, it honestly does not sound like the mafia. With the exception of perhaps the pig's heart.

Here is why::: The mafia, if they were going to murder the children, would be apt to leave the bodies where they could be found. They liked to show someone why they should pay their dues, not leave a mystery. That's the first part I find confusing. If they killed the children, why would they hide the bodies or bury them somewhere? In my experience, the mob wasn't scared of retribution by the police or anyone else for that matter. And they would I think want Mr. Sodder to see the bodies, to put fear into him, to get him to pay those dues or whatever.

Next thing, I don't understand. If they took the kids why would they take the kids? It costs money to put children on a boat to Italy. It is a hassel to say the least, to take small children all the way to Italy. Would they really do that to the kids just take them to the old country and find families to adopt them? Wouldn't that just be a lot of money and time and hassel?

And if the photo of Betty was really of Betty, how did she wind up in New York while Louis if that photo was really of Louis, ended up in Italy? I'm just confused here about a few things. I am not saying it is impossible, it is possible, I just wonder about the motives for doing this sort of thing. And if they DID wind up in Italy, wouldn't they have attempted to go back to where they lived with their family? Even if it was just to see some graves, if they were told their parents and other siblings were killed?
 
She didn't seem to want to talk much about anything different. She says she believes this because a pig's heart was found in the home, and that suggests the mob started the fire. The other thing, she told me, was the fire department never showed until after the fire was out. She said the fire department had many members, perhaps all of them, with ties to the mafia and they knew the fire was going to take place that night. She also told me that she knew for a fact that George Sodder had ties to the mob. She refused to explain how she knew but said she just knew.

abt the pig's heart seeming a code's message, a silent message... it could be a mafia message also... seeming so much italian message....
meaning: taken your heart
and because the heart was of a pig, the meaning is more precise" I taken your pig's heart"... and the more deep the significance: because I taken your heart, you cannot more live and it was true, because from kidnapping, Mr Sodder lived, but lived without the heart because the pain of kidnapping children was so much big.....

Normally the mafia or organized crime .. taking not the children...

sometimes yes, when it necessary to make a "courtesy" for a special mafia friend that request it...
or if the father or a relative of children made a "sgarro";

the "sgarro" is a action made by a mafioso against another mafia person in some business, in some affair, some offense or so .... but this last case seeming no probable, because Mr Sodder was a honest man.. and no involved in the mafia( I use mafia word but meaning the general organized crime )

so the pig's heart: it is the signature of kidnapping..
Maybe Mrs Sodder understood not, but it is probable that the husband or the Ciprianos understood... what the pig's heart meaning....

the problem is to know:
who commissioned the kidnapping??
Who hated so much Sodder family??

The mafia in WV, from what I read by internet, had some connections with Pittsburg mafia; Pittsburg was the first destination in USA of Cipriano family...

It is possible that the organized crime, if the kidnapping was made by a crime organization, hated no Sodder family, but the Ciprianos? as a transversal vendetta in use in mafia also? better explanation of kidnapping:
If I ( mafia or a organized crime) cannot hit you (Cipriano or Sodder or anyone related), I ( mafia) hit you making a transversal vendetta, kidnapping children (that are no involved in the "sgarro"), but I (mafia) know that making so, I taken your heart, because in your heart (feeling, love) are this children.......

In this kidnapping also I see that the Sodders was alone in the children search... maybe I missed some postings, but seeming to me that the Ciprianos no helped, or not helped much the Sodder in the children research... or I'm wrong? also, subtle.... the "omertà" in the story: the bad silence..

It is right to think that the children's grandparents, the children's uncles/auntes had not a primary role in the research? if yes, why?? Or I'm wrong??
Also the pictures of Maurice Sodder sent from Kentucky... why the children when adult no contacted the parents? also this is "omertà": bad silence...

just my idea .....
raf
 
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