WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

[Laura_Bean]

:cat: Interesting.... Very interesting....

 

[raf]

the marriage of FJ ( b.Piedicavallo, Italy)and TOB (b. Oak Hill, Fayette, West Virginia, USA ) was in the 29 Aug 1917 in Covington, Kenton, Kentucky, USA
the record is by OneWorldTree - ancestry.com
but I cannot say if is right... sure it are this record....
raf

 

[Laura_Bean]

That sounds as if the mob killed the children. Which begs the question, if that was the case, why didn't the mob leave those children in the burning home, for their bodies to be discovered by their parents? Okay if it said, "Your kids will pay", than I could see the mafia taking them back to the old country, etc. But if they actually said, "Your children will be destroyed", that to me means they killed the kids. So why not leave the bodies out? To show the parents they meant buisness?

Just some questions here. And if it IS true that the kids were killed, where are their bodies? Plenty of time has elapsed. I think the bodies would have been found by now... Any ideas guys?

:grouphug:
At least we may be getting somewhere.
:cat:

 

[raf]

-the policy knew the CJ menace to GS?
-GS referred the CJ menace??
[-I]"...and your children will be destroyed.."[/I] why CJ said not: "your children will be killed??" he used destroyed... "destroyed" is no equal to "killed"....

I'm inclined that the children was/are living... I believe that the Louis picture is true... the young man in the picture, just my idea, was Louis Sodder...
the mystery is the phrase" lil boys" ..."90132" ..." I love brother Frankie" ...

it could be that lil boys was a name: Lil ( or so) Boys?? in the Kentucky exist Boys surname ...
raf

 

[birdie74]

I've had a hard time wrapping my head around the mafia idea myself for various reasons. I think reading your post just now helped me clear it up in my own mind.

If I think of old school mafia such as those that controlled Chicago and those that built Las Vegas or those that ran the streets of New York... I can't see mafia connected to the Sodder children. But if I expand on "mob" I can venture into thinking of more localized groups or mobs of people who controlled their local areas/business dealings with mob-like mentality and ways. They wouldn't necessarily have to be connected with mafia such as those I mentioned above and therefore would likely do things their way... whether it left a mystery to outsiders or not.

When I met some members of the Sodder family, one of them actually described the mafia there this way, that it's not like we see in the movies or extremely organized, but more just local people who help each other out, cover for one another, break some rules, etc.

Y'all are coming up with some great ideas!

 

[raf]

Hi birdie74 sure was the mafia in local area... I read by internet....
also, I think that is very strange that some italian in Fayette co. having so much money and properties made after some decade of emigration....and thinking that they was poor italians when emigrated, but becoming rich persons, as the father in law of GS and the J' s people... seeming instead that GS was a simple labourer only... maybe the wealth was made, with local mafia connections????

 

[Laura_Bean]

Well I guess if you "destroy" something you break it beyond repair. Could he have meant that the family would be destroyed? Losing that many children did destroy the family, poor Mr. Sodder searched for the children for the rest of his life. Hmmmm.... As for the photo, that could be real. I believe a woman sent the photo. Women tend to feel bad about things and tend to sympathize with mother's who lose their children. I believe "Lil" if that was her name, probably was dying when she sent that photo. What would she have to lose by sending the photo if she was very old and/or dying anyway? Just some thoughts here.

 

[wv171]

"refusing to buy life insurance for the children"

Could this really been a way to tell LE that some people was leaning on Mr. Sodder for weekly payment's to run his trucking bussiness within county of Fayette???

And he refuse to pay them ????

If we do have enough ideas what might happen in WV,,, Moonshine has allways been just about as good as money in WV ... Now days not as much, but longer you go in the past the more this was common place and used as a trade for other goods....

Moonshine don't spoil like corn and other crops... Or you have trouble with rats eatting these crops in storage..



I know for a fact my family it was a couple times a year we run off batches of moonshine for trade for supplys we needed to make it through the long tough wintertime.... We was not doing it to make money, We doing it to survive on year by year or we starve to death in wintertime..

There still small area's hard to get to in WV that still do this today..

Mr. Sodder with that truck would been in high demand to haul in supplys into area's where you can transfor these supplys to horse back to haul in back to the hidden still...

Back in mid 40's Yes I bet moonshine bussiness was still running a lot ..

Govt. didn't really start cracking down a lot until mid 50's into the 60's on moonshiner's ... Unless you trying to operate a moonshine still in your back yard in front of everybody...

I remember hunting in the 70's and I came upon a Moonshine operation I could smell it and hear the fire boilers running with that loud humm, and I got out of that area fast...

Today if you know who to ask Yes gallon moonshine in WV is still not too hard to find..



Thanks to FOX 150 for use of
"refusing to buy life insurance for the children"

 

[Laura_Bean]

Okay.... Back in the 1930's in what is now Harlem, there was an area right there that was called Little Italy. Little Italy in New York, the one we all know about now sits in a different area of New York. But in the thirties and fourties and fifties, what is now Harlem was where a lot of Italian people lived. And they called it Little Italy. A lot of immigrants called it "LilItaly", or "ItalyLil". ILIL or LILI. I found an article on it online. ILIL. I bet the photo was taken in New York in LilItaly or ItalyLil. Which is the same place. ILIL.

ILIL = Italy Lil

Lili = Lil Italy.

At first I believed the letter was just a woman making her peace with the family and apologizing for what had been done to the family, and showing them at least one child was alive and well. BUT.... Now I am thinking the woman who wrote the letter was doing more than that. She was trying to make it right by fixing it. Showing them where the children were. That's what I think.

 

[snowme]

I hadn't thought about it quite that way before!

"refusing to buy life insurance for the children"

Could this really been a way to tell LE that some people was leaning on Mr. Sodder for weekly payment's to run his trucking bussiness within county of Fayette???

And he refuse to pay them ????

If we do have enough ideas what might happen in WV,,, Moonshine has allways been just about as good as money in WV ... Now days not as much, but longer you go in the past the more this was common place and used as a trade for other goods....

Moonshine don't spoil like corn and other crops... Or you have trouble with rats eatting these crops in storage..



I know for a fact my family it was a couple times a year we run off batches of moonshine for trade for supplys we needed to make it through the long tough wintertime.... We was not doing it to make money, We doing it to survive on year by year or we starve to death in wintertime..

There still small area's hard to get to in WV that still do this today..

Mr. Sodder with that truck would been in high demand to haul in supplys into area's where you can transfor these supplys to horse back to haul in back to the hidden still...

Back in mid 40's Yes I bet moonshine bussiness was still running a lot ..

Govt. didn't really start cracking down a lot until mid 50's into the 60's on moonshiner's ... Unless you trying to operate a moonshine still in your back yard in front of everybody...

I remember hunting in the 70's and I came upon a Moonshine operation I could smell it and hear the fire boilers running with that loud humm, and I got out of that area fast...

Today if you know who to ask Yes gallon moonshine in WV is still not too hard to find..



Thanks to FOX 150 for use of
"refusing to buy life insurance for the children"

 

[snowme]

Ooh, good info Laura!

Now, where was that photo mailed from, anyone recall off the top of their head? I'm sure there could have been Little Italy's in many many states/cities, right?!

(And was it cleared up regarding a magazine photo of what some thought was the littlest girl .. wasn't that photo supposedly taken in NY?)

Okay.... Back in the 1930's in what is now Harlem, there was an area right there that was called Little Italy. Little Italy in New York, the one we all know about now sits in a different area of New York. But in the thirties and fourties and fifties, what is now Harlem was where a lot of Italian people lived. And they called it Little Italy. A lot of immigrants called it "LilItaly", or "ItalyLil". ILIL or LILI. I found an article on it online. ILIL. I bet the photo was taken in New York in LilItaly or ItalyLil. Which is the same place. ILIL.

ILIL = Italy Lil

Lili = Lil Italy.

At first I believed the letter was just a woman making her peace with the family and apologizing for what had been done to the family, and showing them at least one child was alive and well. BUT.... Now I am thinking the woman who wrote the letter was doing more than that. She was trying to make it right by fixing it. Showing them where the children were. That's what I think.

 

[fox1950]

Ooh, good info Laura!

Now, where was that photo mailed from, anyone recall off the top of their head? I'm sure there could have been Little Italy's in many many states/cities, right?!

(And was it cleared up regarding a magazine photo of what some thought was the littlest girl .. wasn't that photo supposedly taken in NY?)

The letter was mail from Central City, KY. The picture was a ballet class at Walt Whitman School, NY.

 

[wv171]

Investigate this "LilItaly", or "ItalyLil". ILIL or LILI. More I think my old good friend Laura has hit upon something here..

Only trouble I see is there hundrad's if not thousands places called Little Italy in USA a lot in WV is only ghost towns now, We got a town called little Italy right across the mt. from my home... About anywhere a large group of people from Italy area live at got that name "tag" on to there little town or area..

Somebody felt bad after all this nonsense happened..... I swear I look hard into this case and I keep coming up with this act started out small and got way out of hand and people did thing's they normally never would of done...

Myself I think them kids caught or atleast saw who was trying to catch there house on fire and them people grab them kids trying not to get caught and spend jail time over there ( I feel Drunken ) act...

I like to point out too.. My above post at no time did I ever mean or try to say That The fine family Sodders was in Moonshine Bussiness , My thought was that Old Man Sodders Truck would been real good to haul in supplys to people home or area that may be in that bussiness there selfs ..... It take a lot of heavy supplys to make a good batch of moonshine and Mr. Sodders TK would been idea to move this from Fayetteville or any other local town to a area many miles away from a city where these supplys was purchase at..

As far as Mr. Sodder would known these was just supplys for that family , He never would known what they was going to do with all them 100 pd's sacks of sugar and Yeast and other ingredient's ..

I just wanted to clear that up so they would not be any missunderstanding ...

As far as I know The Sodder Family was nice church going law abiding God fearing good citizens of USA..

 

[Laura_Bean]

But we have a yr right? What yr was that photo sent? And than look up all Little Italy's from that time period.

 

[snowme]

The letter was mail from Central City, KY. The picture was a ballet class at Walt Whitman School, NY.

Thanks fox!

For what it's worth, it's nearly a straight shot, via Rt. 64, between Fayetteville WV and Central City KY. (By way of Charleston WV which is 51.5 miles NW of Fayetteville)

But we have a yr right? What yr was that photo sent? And than look up all Little Italy's from that time period.

According to Granddaughter the picture was received in 1968. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=936324&postcount=460

Just bringing this forward with us again:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=933412&postcount=422
On the back of the picture was this:

Louis Sodder
I Love brother Frankie
lili Boys
A90132 or 35

Originally posted by Shadow205 here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=933412&postcount=422

 

[raf]

just a bit: and if the number was not A90132 but the "A" was a "4"? so becoming 490132... and it is a US institution code:
490132 BOOMER CHRISTIAN SCHOOL USA WV

??
In Boomer was the Ciprianis as a well they moved in Harlan County, KY
http://www.yonkersny.gov/Index.aspx?page=1647

so I ask: sure the number was A90132 without error's possibility ???
raf

 

[Shadow205]

I posted a brief version of the Sodder Family mystery on a local mesage board in Cental City,KY, a year or so ago along with the picture thought to be Louis. I didn't get any replies. I thought that it would be a good idea to try and find year books for any high schools in the area. If we could get someone to look through them, we might just find that picture. Ithink a picutre in the local paper might work too. It's worth a try. I'll check on running an add. I think I got side tracked and never followed up on that. I have not been around much.

I was in a restraunt in Beckley,WV last week which is about 20 miles from Fayetteville. It was Tudor's Biscuit World which is a chain. They had several vintage reproduction pictures of local places, Imagine my surprise when there was a picture of the billboard with all the children's pictures plus the one mailed to Mrs. Sodder of what may be Louis. I was so happy for it to be hanging there for everyone to see and read their story!:woohoo:

 

[snowme]

just a bit: and if the number was not A90132 but the "A" was a "4"? so becoming 490132... and it is a US institution code:
490132 BOOMER CHRISTIAN SCHOOL USA WV

??
In Boomer was the Ciprianis as a well they moved in Harlan County, KY
http://www.yonkersny.gov/Index.aspx?page=1647

so I ask: sure the number was A90132 without error's possibility ???
raf

That got an audible "wow" out of me! Thanks for that post raf! Very interesting. It would be hard to imagine that they are not related in some way. Wondering the lineage.

 

[snowme]

I posted a brief version of the Sodder Family mystery on a local mesage board in Cental City,KY, a year or so ago along with the picture thought to be Louis. I didn't get any replies. I thought that it would be a good idea to try and find year books for any high schools in the area. If we could get someone to look through them, we might just find that picture. Ithink a picutre in the local paper might work too. It's worth a try. I'll check on running an add. I think I got side tracked and never followed up on that. I have not been around much.

I was in a restraunt in Beckley,WV last week which is about 20 miles from Fayetteville. It was Tudor's Biscuit World which is a chain. They had several vintage reproduction pictures of local places, Imagine my surprise when there was a picture of the billboard with all the children's pictures plus the one mailed to Mrs. Sodder of what may be Louis. I was so happy for it to be hanging there for everyone to see and read their story!:woohoo:

Well, that got another "wow" out of me! Makes me feel good to know that we're definitely not the only ones pondering.

 

[Laura_Bean]

Wow. And as for the school, that is a Great idea. It could be the school code. I am going to call the school today and talk with them. Thanks for that! Great idea!