WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

[chitoryu12]

This post bumped this thread up into the new posts, which caught my eye, thanks kpetrova, im a 30 yr old mum of 4 who has only ever set foot in NY and PA, clearly no idea of WV or really any individual state before the time I visited (camp america) 12 years ago. Still no bloody idea!
Ive spent 2 days, *ahem 3* between the festivities(none of you guys better tell my kids I wasnt that interested in their new toys lol, this one got me)

71 years... im trying to solve a minor point in my family history from nearly 60 years ago and it seems impossible to do so.

I believe that anyone who did know the truth will be dead by now, who in the right mind who was directly involved would pass info onto their children etc?!

I know theres a few thoughts re mrs sodder hearing the bang on the roof, but could it simply be that it was the ladder hitting the top of the house/the roof?

I hope at least jenni(y?) gets the answers within their lifetime, I doubt it though

The Sodders claimed to have found something that resembled the remains of an incendiary bomb (a hard, dark green rubber ball) after the snow melted. I don't know of any incendiary grenade design that uses a rubber body or has rubber spherical components that would remain intact after burning, only ones that use a rubber gasket that gets melted by the gasoline inside to act as a sort of crude time delay on the bomb. That said, the ladder was found 75 feet away from the house. The "rolling sound" that came after the thud could have been something being rolled across the roof by a perpetrator using a stolen ladder, which they then hastily discarded. Ironically, the presence of the ladder in its usual spot by a more careful criminal would have removed a potential piece of evidence of the sabotage.

Unfortunately Jennie Sodder has been dead since 1989. The only surviving survivor is Sylvia, who was 2 years old when she was rescued from the blaze.

The fact that mrs sodder heard a loud thud on the roof then a rolling is so imperative. Mr sodder found a napalm pineapple just days later within yards of the house. My issue is why would kidnappers throw a napalm pineapple on the roof? They are designed to blow small amounts of schrapnel Andrew gas outward. Were they aiming for the attic window and missed? Also napalm was a war weapon designed in 1942. The crime occurred. 1945. Pineapples were primarily used in Vietnam. Why would someone bring a napalm weapon to their house and throw it on the roof and also was it actually a napalm weapon or something else? I can't find a record of a napalm pineapple design around the mid forties.

Keep in mind that neither the mother or the father ever served in the military or in any kind of insurgency to my knowledge (George Sodder left Sicily when he was 13, so I doubt he was blowing anything up back then). They may have mistakenly identified the rubber ball they found as the remains of an incendiary grenade. That doesn't disprove arson, but it does cast doubt on what they identified.

 

[wolff]

Hello, I am new here but have already read almost all the info around the case. I have a few questions/suggestions that have been going around my head for a while:

- Was it possible for the father to have something of a great importance in the garage (and not only to him, but other people, possible business related or even mafia)? If it was the case, probably the man trying to steal from the garage was actually looking for that exact same thing and lied when confronted later? Or it was not the father, but the son that had just returned home that had hidden something there?

- If the father had kept something and if that other man was specifically looking for it the night the house burned down but did not find it, maybe that is why the father so quickly demolished the scene of the crime? Maybe that thing is still there? Maybe that is why the fire started in the first place?

Just suggestions. I will be glad to hear thoughts on them!

 

[wolff]

Hello, I am new here but have already read almost all the info around the case. I have a few questions/suggestions that have been going around my head for a while:

- Was it possible for the father to have something of a great importance in the garage (and not only to him, but other people, possible business related or even mafia)? If it was the case, probably the man trying to steal from the garage was actually looking for that exact same thing and lied when confronted later? Or it was not the father, but the son that had just returned home that had hidden something there?

- If the father had kept something and if that other man was specifically looking for it the night the house burned down but did not find it, maybe that is why the father so quickly demolished the scene of the crime? Maybe that thing is still there? Maybe that is why the fire started in the first place?

Just suggestions. I will be glad to hear thoughts on them!

Another thing that I forgot to ask - is it possible for the mother to have heard a noise from the second floor where the children's bedrooms were, not the roof? The two older brothers were sleeping in the attic, right? Moreover, one of them was military, so I believe that even the s lightest noise would wake him up immediately ...

 

[ad rem]

There doesn't seem to be a message board here where new members can introduce themselves. So, here's my first post. This is the case that drew me to this website. My first impression reading about this case on Wikipedia hasn't been fully elaborated here. I've read very post once and am in the process of re-reading each again.

 

[Roselvr]

There doesn't seem to be a message board here where new members can introduce themselves. So, here's my first post. This is the case that drew me to this website. My first impression reading about this case on Wikipedia hasn't been fully elaborated here. I've read very post once and am in the process of re-reading each again.

Welcome to WS! I'll have to read Sodder children disappearance on wiki, I don't think I've read it before. The thread below is hard to find if you're new and don't know your way around.

Welcome Newbies! Stop in and say Hi! (Freshman Mixer)

 

[Laura_Bean]

The human bones consist of four lumbar vertebrae belonging to one individual. Since the transverse recesses are fused, the age of this individual at death should have been 16 or 17 years. The top limit of age should be about 22 since the centra, which normally fuse at 23, are still unfused. On this basis, the bones show greater skeletal maturation than one would expect for a 14-year-old boy (the oldest missing Sodder child). It is however possible, although not probable, for a boy 14 ½ years old to show 16-17 maturation.


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...nt-up-in-smoke-172429802/#X4wu5xsYDu7bo1RM.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-children-who-went-up-in-smoke-172429802/

Not if he had this just made a thread on it. Check it out.

 

[nicholef]

I have spent the last 2 days trying to catch up and see if there's any new info after my last visit in 2010. I am once again pained to read about family members and a family mystery I knew nothing of until an adult. I hate to be all conspiracy theorist, but why was this horrible tragedy never mentioned in my lifetime of interactions with family members, many of which have been named in previous threads? Not one mention of any of these people and now any relative that might have info or insight is dead. Hopefully none of this involves any of those people, but I still wonder what key piece of info they may have held that I have no access to.

But thank you. I've learned more of my family history through these threads than in 40 years of interactions and conversations with family. Sad, but true.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I have spent the last 2 days trying to catch up and see if there's any new info after my last visit in 2010. I am once again pained to read about family members and a family mystery I knew nothing of until an adult. I hate to be all conspiracy theorist, but why was this horrible tragedy never mentioned in my lifetime of interactions with family members, many of which have been named in previous threads? Not one mention of any of these people and now any relative that might have info or insight is dead. Hopefully none of this involves any of those people, but I still wonder what key piece of info they may have held that I have no access to.

But thank you. I've learned more of my family history through these threads than in 40 years of interactions and conversations with family. Sad, but true.

Oh wow, that's really sad. How are you related to the Sodders?

 

[nicholef]

My great grandfather was one of Jennie's brothers, the one in FL. We all lived in very close proximity when I was younger and our family was very close. I'm just surprised at all of the history I never knew. I did ask my parents about this when I first discovered it and was quickly shut down. So no answers there either.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My great grandfather was one of Jennie's brothers, the one in FL. We all lived in very close proximity when I was younger and our family was very close. I'm just surprised at all of the history I never knew. I did ask my parents about this when I first discovered it and was quickly shut down. So no answers there either.

Shut down like it was a deep dark secret never to be spoken of? Or shut down as in they knew nothing and couldn't help further the investigation?

 

[nicholef]

They are very secretive people anyway so it's hard to say. I was excited to ask about it and was simply told "yeah we know about it." Nothing else was ever said. That was 2010 because it wasn't right after I found these threads by accident. I was looking for old family names for my 6th baby at the time.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I have spent the last 2 days trying to catch up and see if there's any new info after my last visit in 2010. I am once again pained to read about family members and a family mystery I knew nothing of until an adult. I hate to be all conspiracy theorist, but why was this horrible tragedy never mentioned in my lifetime of interactions with family members, many of which have been named in previous threads? Not one mention of any of these people and now any relative that might have info or insight is dead. Hopefully none of this involves any of those people, but I still wonder what key piece of info they may have held that I have no access to.

But thank you. I've learned more of my family history through these threads than in 40 years of interactions and conversations with family. Sad, but true.

I'm so sorry that it has been like that I have poured hours (maybe days) over this tragedy.

 

[ad rem]

We all lived in very close proximity when I was younger and our family was very close.

I say, in what line of employment were the Cipriani family?

 

[nicholef]

Land development or at least that's what I believe my grandfather did. I spent a lot of time with him on job sites as a child. They were clearing land with tractors and removing debris with dump trucks.

My great grandfather, not as certain but I believe it was a family business and he had been in biz with my grandfather. They also owned a small corner gas station as well as several rental cottages on their property.

 

[ad rem]

Land development or at least that's what I believe my grandfather did. I spent a lot of time with him on job sites as a child. They were clearing land with tractors and removing debris with dump trucks.

My great grandfather, not as certain but I believe it was a family business and he had been in biz with my grandfather. They also owned a small corner gas station as well as several rental cottages on their property.

Our family are also traditional European migrants. I meant... what line of employment were the Cipriani family engaged in - back in Italy?

 

[ad rem]

Michael Sodder, born years after the family home burnt down, died not long after birth.

 

[ad rem]

Wikipedia mentions: Deville. Several WS posts have called for fresh eyes and new theories. George Bragg and Stacy Horn note Occam's Razor ought to be falsifiable. Am ready to post my sting and rescue theory. However, to round my theory... who was Deville?

 

[symmetry]

I have a question about this case. I apologize if this has already been discussed to death.

One things I've read many times is that George Sodder believes that his family was targeted due to his criticisms of Mussolini, and that he was specifically targeted by the Mafia.

Mussolini specifically targeted the Sicilian Mafia for eradication with the appointment of Cesare Mori as prefect of Palermo. The Mafia supported political opponents of the fascists, so Mussolini would benefit from crushing them. A number of members of the Mafia moved to the United States due to this.

Why would the now-U.S.-based Sicilian Mafia's response to one man's criticism of Mussolini be to try to murder him and his family? It seems highly unlikely that any group with this history would have such a dramatic change of opinion just twenty years later.

 

[Falcon500]

I have a question about this case. I apologize if this has already been discussed to death.

One things I've read many times is that George Sodder believes that his family was targeted due to his criticisms of Mussolini, and that he was specifically targeted by the Mafia.

Mussolini specifically targeted the Sicilian Mafia for eradication with the appointment of Cesare Mori as prefect of Palermo. The Mafia supported political opponents of the fascists, so Mussolini would benefit from crushing them. A number of members of the Mafia moved to the United States due to this.

Why would the now-U.S.-based Sicilian Mafia's response to one man's criticism of Mussolini be to try to murder him and his family? It seems highly unlikely that any group with this history would have such a dramatic change of opinion just twenty years later.

Whether Mr. Sodder said this or not is irrelevant. The theory is very far fetched. So far out there to be included in the "grasping for straws" file.

Sodder spent the rest of his life in denial that he failed to save his children that were all killed in the fire.

 

[DVJustice]

I'm sorry if I missed any information or am posting in the wrong spot, this is my first post on WS. After watching the documentaries, reading all the articles, the blogs, forums, etc.... I'm left with questions that I'm surprised were not brought up here. Bear with me, and I mean to offend anyone, just somethings from maybe another point of view...

1. Keep in mind, I have no idea how things worked in 1945. Papa Sodder ran his own business, had his office at home. Did this office have a separate phone line? If so, the main phones may have already been cut when the phone rang in his office.

2. When Mama Sodder answered the phone, she said it was a woman she didn't know asking for a man she didn't know. There were dishes clanking, loud voices, laughing, like a party... NOBODY has ever questioned this. What if it was a warning to her instead of what she said it was? She also said she went right back to sleep, but what if at that point she started getting the children out of the house and to her family to help them get away bc she was scared of something? THEN she heard the napalm bombs hitting the roof and she had to wake her husband up at that point? She would have gotten 5 out, her husband never knowing the plan.

3. What if the call to his office was Papa Sodder's girlfriend? Just an idea, but again maybe Mama was scared he was going to hurt the family. I mean, if he leaves her with an army of kids and no income, or something else, idk.

4. Even though it took 7 hours for the fire department to respond, the house burned down in about 45 minutes. After it came down, it only smoldered. At no point was there enough heat to completely incinerate 5 bodies (per my father, a firefighter of 30 years). They would have definitely found remains in the rubble. Even if they were bulldozed over, the forensic guy he hired later that found the vertebrae pieces would have found their bones as well.

5. During the fire, the thief was stealing a "block and tackle", which is actually like a pulley. IDK how much they cost back then, but they cost almost nothing today and would make you wonder why someone would steal it, unless they were only pretending to and were actually on the property bc they set the house on fire.

Thoughts?