Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #88

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Ok ...

If this is true I'm starting to change my position on this lawsuit.

Disgraceful
 
I don’t think the Moab lawsuit will go anywhere, but I find the response by Moab to be tone-deaf. For a police department to suggest that women need to have better discernment when choosing intimate partners in order to be safe, is absolutely part of the problem. NO man should control, brutalize, assault, or kill women.

jmo
 
Who's job is it to teach girl's and young women what to do if their partner becomes abusive?

The government? Or their parents?
That is a really good question. Maybe it’s everyone’s job to educate women to spot red flags. Maybe it is everyone’s job to call out men who are abusive. And maybe it’s everyone’s job to help men understand that abuse - in any form - is not ok.

jmo
 
Comparing Responsibilities?

Nichole Schmidt & Joseph Petito's lawsuit for wrongful death of their daughter Gabby demands $50 million from Moab PD.

From Moab PD's Motion to Dismiss:*
".... Even if the plaintiffs believe that Moab City is liable, it strains credibility to suggest the City is 15-20 times more responsible for Ms. Petito's death than Brian Laundrie, her murderer."

I wonder about the source of the 15-20x figure.
Any ideas?
_______________________________
*Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for '

FWIW, from wiki, which has footnotes to links:
"Lawsuits
"Petito's parents sued Laundrie's parents and their attorney, with their November 30, 2023, amended complaint claiming pain and emotional distress due to Laundrie's parents and their attorney withholding information regarding Petito's death.[76] A Florida judge previously allowed the suit to proceed.[77]
"On November 17, 2022, in a lawsuit for wrongful death brought against Laundrie's estate by Petito's estate, her estate was awarded $3 million, the recovery of which was doubtful.[78]"
^ Killing of Gabby Petito - Wikipedia
 
Comparing Responsibilities?

Nichole Schmidt & Joseph Petito's lawsuit for wrongful death of their daughter Gabby demands $50 million from Moab PD.

From Moab PD's Motion to Dismiss:*
".... Even if the plaintiffs believe that Moab City is liable, it strains credibility to suggest the City is 15-20 times more responsible for Ms. Petito's death than Brian Laundrie, her murderer."

I wonder about the source of the 15-20x figure.
Any ideas?
_______________________________
*Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for '

FWIW, from wiki, which has footnotes to links:
"Lawsuits
"Petito's parents sued Laundrie's parents and their attorney, with their November 30, 2023, amended complaint claiming pain and emotional distress due to Laundrie's parents and their attorney withholding information regarding Petito's death.[76] A Florida judge previously allowed the suit to proceed.[77]
"On November 17, 2022, in a lawsuit for wrongful death brought against Laundrie's estate by Petito's estate, her estate was awarded $3 million, the recovery of which was doubtful.[78]"
^ Killing of Gabby Petito - Wikipedia
15-20x greater than the $3 million suit again BL's estate

JMO
 
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Dr. Laura Richards and the July 2022 Domestic Violence Report have detailed information regarding how the Moab police did not assess the situation correctly, and both agree that the Moab police did not even properly apply Utah's Physical Aggressor law correctly. I am not a lawyer, but found the above links helpful in understanding the reason for the lawsuit.

Richards literally wrote the book "Policing Domestic Violence". She is an expert and was interviewed by Tricia here on Websleuths.

Also, one of those police officers has a history of controlling behavior and exhibited violence with his ex-girlfriend, using police resources to stalk and threaten her. How can he serve and protect the public if he is an aggressor?

It's pretty simple what police departments need to do: Do not hire people with a history of abusing others. And use the DASH checklist to standardize how police respond to these "murders in slow motion". Using the checklist actually makes it easier for law enforcement to prove they did their due diligence. Pushing back on these simple standards is bad PR (blaming the victim) and suspicious.
 
I don’t think the Moab lawsuit will go anywhere, but I find the response by Moab to be tone-deaf. For a police department to suggest that women need to have better discernment when choosing intimate partners in order to be safe, is absolutely part of the problem. NO man should control, brutalize, assault, or kill women.

jmo
let us remember that he also killed himself, so even in the most sexist society, BL was not a mentally healthy individual IMO
 
Who's job is it to teach girl's and young women what to do if their partner becomes abusive?

The government? Or their parents?
In Gabby's case, maybe it could have been Moab PD to spot the marks on her face, the report from the passerby, the fact that Brian was gaslighting her and started the incident by taking her phone away, and not treating him as the victim. The toxic part of their relationship was hidden from her parents. The only thing Moab PD did right was to separate them.
 
IIRC (not saying perfect recall), broad strokes:
1. Moab LEOs on the scene arranged to SEPARATE GP & BL for the night --- her to stay in van, him provided w shelter (motel?) elsewhere.
2. Both GP & BL agreed this was an appropriate way to address the situation.
3. During the night, they changed their minds.
4 They continued on their van life journey.
5. A couple weeks later & hundreds of miles away, BL killed GP.

W ^ basic sequence of events, would Moab LE's (hypothetically) ARRESTING BL that day & jailing him overnight have PREVENTED him from killing her? If so, how?
 
IIRC (not saying perfect recall), broad strokes:
1. Moab LEOs on the scene arranged to SEPARATE GP & BL for the night --- her to stay in van, him provided w shelter (motel?) elsewhere.
2. Both GP & BL agreed this was an appropriate way to address the situation.
3. During the night, they changed their minds.
4 They continued on their van life journey.
5. A couple weeks later & hundreds of miles away, BL killed GP.

W ^ basic sequence of events, would Moab LE's (hypothetically) ARRESTING BL that day & jailing him overnight have PREVENTED him from killing her? If so, how?
If they had recognized her as the true victim instead of him, they could have provided her resources on domestic abuse and maybe just maybe she wouldn't have tried to complete the trip with him. I don't forsee that he would have done anything any differently.
 
IIRC (not saying perfect recall), broad strokes:
1. Moab LEOs on the scene arranged to SEPARATE GP & BL for the night --- her to stay in van, him provided w shelter (motel?) elsewhere.
2. Both GP & BL agreed this was an appropriate way to address the situation.
3. During the night, they changed their minds.
4 They continued on their van life journey.
5. A couple weeks later & hundreds of miles away, BL killed GP.

W ^ basic sequence of events, would Moab LE's (hypothetically) ARRESTING BL that day & jailing him overnight have PREVENTED him from killing her? If so, how?
Please provide a link to the information for #2, because my recollection of the video is that Gabby specifically said that she did not think it was a good way to address the situation (though admittedly, my recollection is that she did seem favor the outcome over the possibility of being arrested and thrown in jail for the night).

But in answer to your question, arresting him for assault would not have necessarily simply involved jailing him overnight. He could have been held for longer had they taken the scratches on her face, the fact that he put his hand around her neck, and the eyewitness account seriously. Perhaps a longer stay in jail would have caused Gabby to seek help from her parents, if for no other reason than she was afraid to drive the van alone.
 
If they had recognized her as the true victim instead of him, they could have provided her resources on domestic abuse and maybe just maybe she wouldn't have tried to complete the trip with him. I don't forsee that he would have done anything any differently.
It's hard to second-guess what might have happened.

I've lost track of many of the details of this case. Did Brian go home between the time of the Moab event and the murder? Did Gabby speak with her parents or friends on the phone?

If so, perhaps the Laundries, Petitos, or others could have changed the tragic course of events, too.

To me, the only one who truly bears the blame is Brian.

`
 
It's hard to second-guess what might have happened.

I've lost track of many of the details of this case. Did Brian go home between the time of the Moab event and the murder? Did Gabby speak with her parents or friends on the phone?

If so, perhaps the Laundries, Petitos, or others could have changed the tragic course of events, too.

To me, the only one who truly bears the blame is Brian.

`
The point is that Moab PD failed to recognize the signs of domestic abuse and they were in the frontline position to do so. Had they recognized them, Gabby may have gotten the help that she needed and gotten out of the relationship and still been alive today. They failed her.
 
Whether Moab LE had arrested GP based on what she told them she did to BL or arrested BL based on what LE guessed he may have done to GP, the separation very likely would have been for that one night. Whoever was arrested would have been released the next day per multiple legal sources in Utah who went on the record at the time this was breaking news. These days, people just don't stay in jail for very long post-arrest.

It's not clear to me how an arrest would have affected the eventual outcome and prevented GP's death weeks later. (And the lawsuit IS for wrongful death.) Further, it's certainly not clear a separation that night due to an arrest would have had a preventative effect in a way the "mental health" separation LE arranged could not. (Although we now know the mental health separation the couple agreed to may not have been honored by the couple for the full night. While they preferred it to GP being arrested (as she claimed to be the aggressor) both seemed to prefer no separation at all. (No surprise.)

We know the female park ranger claims she tried to "talk sense" into GP during the road stop. We know GP's best friend in Florida, RD, didn't like BL, we know the years-long relationship going back to high school between BL & GP was full of drama-- arguments, breakups & makeups. We know from her family that once GP made up her mind, she stuck to it. Somehow I doubt GP being handled a folder of DV resources by LE (or lectured) in the middle of a long-planned road trip with her fiance’ would have changed anything. And I expect it's very rare for a DV situation to come to an "ah ha! I get it now" and end that way.

The recent stories also don't mention the intervening ~6-day separation the couple also had when BL flew to FL. GP & her van were at a SLC hotel. So far as we know, GP spent that time (Aug 17-23) working on video & talking to her parents on the phone (parents who at that point have said they viewed the Moab incident as a traveler's spat.) The multi-night SLC/FL separation didn't change the outcome.

It may be proven LE should have arrested GP as the aggressor or should have decided she was lying and arrested BL. But even with the lower level of proof required in a civil case, lack of adherence to dept policy won't automatically morph into the cause of GP's death weeks later. At best it sounds like the argument is, "Had LE done something different, it's possible GP would have made some different choices going forward." Sure, maybe she would have, and just as likely maybe she would not have. (Personally I think it's less likely she'd have made other choices. She seemed pretty committed to that multi-year relationship.) Either way, that doesn't strike me as a strong argument for LE being responsible for her wrongful death.

So far as Moab being 15-20 times more responsible than BL for GP's death, the damages sought in the two wrongful death suits do suggest that idea. But in some ways, BL is no longer important. It's other people who have to pay and be punished now. For example, in June of this year Nicole Schmidt said she forgave BL for killing GP. But she said she won't forgive his mother RL who was over 2000 miles away when GP was killed by BL -- "You do not deserve forgiveness. You deserve to be forgotten and dehumanized. You epitomize pure evil.”

Gabby Petito’s Mom Says She Forgives Brian Laundrie, but Not His Mother: 'I See No Empathy in Your Eyes'

So it's not surprising Moab LE might be considered much more responsible than BL for GP's death.
MOO
 
Whether Moab LE had arrested GP based on what she told them she did to BL or arrested BL based on what LE guessed he may have done to GP, the separation very likely would have been for that one night. Whoever was arrested would have been released the next day per multiple legal sources in Utah who went on the record at the time this was breaking news. These days, people just don't stay in jail for very long post-arrest.

It's not clear to me how an arrest would have affected the eventual outcome and prevented GP's death weeks later. (And the lawsuit IS for wrongful death.) Further, it's certainly not clear a separation that night due to an arrest would have had a preventative effect in a way the "mental health" separation LE arranged could not. (Although we now know the mental health separation the couple agreed to may not have been honored by the couple for the full night. While they preferred it to GP being arrested (as she claimed to be the aggressor) both seemed to prefer no separation at all. (No surprise.)

We know the female park ranger claims she tried to "talk sense" into GP during the road stop. We know GP's best friend in Florida, RD, didn't like BL, we know the years-long relationship going back to high school between BL & GP was full of drama-- arguments, breakups & makeups. We know from her family that once GP made up her mind, she stuck to it. Somehow I doubt GP being handled a folder of DV resources by LE (or lectured) in the middle of a long-planned road trip with her fiance’ would have changed anything. And I expect it's very rare for a DV situation to come to an "ah ha! I get it now" and end that way.

The recent stories also don't mention the intervening ~6-day separation the couple also had when BL flew to FL. GP & her van were at a SLC hotel. So far as we know, GP spent that time (Aug 17-23) working on video & talking to her parents on the phone (parents who at that point have said they viewed the Moab incident as a traveler's spat.) The multi-night SLC/FL separation didn't change the outcome.

It may be proven LE should have arrested GP as the aggressor or should have decided she was lying and arrested BL. But even with the lower level of proof required in a civil case, lack of adherence to dept policy won't automatically morph into the cause of GP's death weeks later. At best it sounds like the argument is, "Had LE done something different, it's possible GP would have made some different choices going forward." Sure, maybe she would have, and just as likely maybe she would not have. (Personally I think it's less likely she'd have made other choices. She seemed pretty committed to that multi-year relationship.) Either way, that doesn't strike me as a strong argument for LE being responsible for her wrongful death.

So far as Moab being 15-20 times more responsible than BL for GP's death, the damages sought in the two wrongful death suits do suggest that idea. But in some ways, BL is no longer important. It's other people who have to pay and be punished now. For example, in June of this year Nicole Schmidt said she forgave BL for killing GP. But she said she won't forgive his mother RL who was over 2000 miles away when GP was killed by BL -- "You do not deserve forgiveness. You deserve to be forgotten and dehumanized. You epitomize pure evil.”

Gabby Petito’s Mom Says She Forgives Brian Laundrie, but Not His Mother: 'I See No Empathy in Your Eyes'

So it's not surprising Moab LE might be considered much more responsible than BL for GP's death.
MOO
Well said, IMO.
 
The point is that Moab PD failed to recognize the signs of domestic abuse and they were in the frontline position to do so. Had they recognized them, Gabby may have gotten the help that she needed and gotten out of the relationship and still been alive today. They failed her.
Had they arrested Gabby (or Brian), sure, it may have changed the course of events. But, there's no guarantee it would have. And they couldn't hold either one of them for more than just one night.

The Moab PD recognized domestic abuse, but the circumstances (and injuries) didn't rise to the level of arrests.

Maybe if Gabby would have said she was scared of Brian, but she didn't. Instead, she took responsibility, and her story matched Brian's story.

I get the feeling that van life was so stressful, as long as they pursued it, they were at risk.

But that trip was Gabby's dream, and it seems as though she was determined to see it through even though their relationship was souring.

If Gabby couldn't forsee Brian's growing tendency to violence, and neither of their parents picked up on it during the visit home or phone calls, I can't imagine LE could have foreseen it, especially because the Moab stop was so long before the murder.

I think a lot of departments deal with mild cases of domestic abuse and have to make judgment calls as to whether they should take stronger steps to intercede. On the one hand, they want to prevent injury, but on the other hand, they don't want to punish the participants if it's a one-off event.

Just MOO

I think the Moab PD could be more tactful in their statements, but I don't think the Petitos have a case they can win.
 
Had they arrested Gabby (or Brian), sure, it may have changed the course of events. But, there's no guarantee it would have. And they couldn't hold either one of them for more than just one night.

The Moab PD recognized domestic abuse, but the circumstances (and injuries) didn't rise to the level of arrests.

Maybe if Gabby would have said she was scared of Brian, but she didn't. Instead, she took responsibility, and her story matched Brian's story.

I get the feeling that van life was so stressful, as long as they pursued it, they were at risk.

But that trip was Gabby's dream, and it seems as though she was determined to see it through even though their relationship was souring.

If Gabby couldn't forsee Brian's growing tendency to violence, and neither of their parents picked up on it during the visit home or phone calls, I can't imagine LE could have foreseen it, especially because the Moab stop was so long before the murder.

I think a lot of departments deal with mild cases of domestic abuse and have to make judgment calls as to whether they should take stronger steps to intercede. On the one hand, they want to prevent injury, but on the other hand, they don't want to punish the participants if it's a one-off event.

Just MOO

I think the Moab PD could be more tactful in their statements, but I don't think the Petitos have a case they can win.

I'm not understanding what people expected the police to do - they separated them for the night - Gabby did not make a police report that Brian physically abused her.

If they refused to take a police report or did zero, never separated them, then maybe there was deriliction of duty whatever, but I don't get it. I do not understand what more could have been done besides separating them. Actually they should be commended for that.

If anyone knows what the Petitos think the Utah officers should have done let me know.
 
I'm not understanding what people expected the police to do - they separated them for the night - Gabby did not make a police report that Brian physically abused her.

If they refused to take a police report or did zero, never separated them, then maybe there was deriliction of duty whatever, but I don't get it. I do not understand what more could have been done besides separating them. Actually they should be commended for that.

If anyone knows what the Petitos think the Utah officers should have done let me know.
I agree wholeheartedly.

I can't see the PD doing anything else in the circumstances.

Even Gabby's mom, who was talking to her on the phone during the Moab stop, didn't sense any real danger or call the Moab PD and insist her daughter was in trouble.

No one sensed she was in that sort of danger. And, at the time of the stop, she wasn't. Something happened quite a bit later that triggered the final attack.

The Moab PD could be more sensitive in their statements, but I don't think anyone can legitimately fault them for their actions that day.

MOO
 

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