Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #66

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
LinneaE said:
Yes. We know from Brian's own words on the Moab police body cam footage that he had been taking medication but stopped, iirc. It is my opinion that their problems stem from his mental health issues, not hers. I believe he projected his issues on to her.
Click to expand...
He didn't say he had taken the medication. He said the doctor had prescribed it for anxiety. Then he went on to list the possible side effects. IIRC.
 
10ofRods said:
So much is known about what bodies do in different tempss, on different kinds of surfaces, in varying humidity, etc., that I would say it is as exact a science as figuring out whether a person needs a certain dose of medicine, depending on their size. There are thousands of studies, two major body farms,. and 5 decades of carefully collected data.

First, the body begins to break down all of the cells in the soft tissue. This is accompanied by the production of various enzymes, whose rates are correlated closely with temperature and humidity (especially temperature). The ME and Coroner know more about the temps at Spread Creek than we do, I'm sure.

The reason that they have a week long window (which is pretty narrow) is that there was probably not a lot of mold or mildew in the area - some, enough to get a window on that stage of decomp. It's really unlikely that all insects, birds and rodents would have avoided the body, so I doubt there's much evidence of what a last meal would have been. It's possible - but that takes sending samples to specialists. There's been no word whether they hired an (expensive) forensic entomologist or not - but they must have preserved the evidence needed for that analysis to take place. I think they could still hire one - if they find BL. Why bother and use up a precious expert resource if he's not found?

I'm not sure why some think 7 days is a wide window. I do not think the pathologists and the ME used alleged facts about restaurant visits or texts to determine cause of death - that's not how it works. The Coroner will include that information in the final report, if it is verified but the autopsy itself focuses on what is known about the body.

Since most of us believe the Merry Piglets visit occurred, that does narrow the window. I wrote a fairly lengthy post about it last night.

IMO, there's no way that the medical examiner worked backwards from any outside facts, as that would be assuming way too much about BL's movements and GP's as well. A ME's job is to do an autopsy, not to go out into the field and ask people at restaurants questions - that's a different aspect to the investigation. Nor would the ME be watching the Bethune's video in order to make a determination of ToD.

Wyoming ME's are well versed in WY conditions. I trust the ME implicitly and believe they found the best expert (from Sheridan) that they could.

Being kept just above freezing for some of the time that Gabby was out there would have slowed decomp a little, so it is possible that they could find evidence of last meals...maybe. A lot depends on whether she was face up or face down. It does not appear that any large scavengers discovered her or by the time they did, there wasn't enough for them to bother. It is usually ravens who get there first (and stand/fly around the various campsites in the area, at the ready).

I should add that even a non-entomologist is going to know how to use the various (often generational) evidence from insects to help determine time of death, and there may not be a lot of exotic insects at Spread Creek. The creek itself had very little water in it and from photos I've seen, I'm pretty sure I could cross it easily and would be unlikely to get much of my boots wet.

A Coroner's full report is different than an autopsy report...once all the verified data are combined, the window of Gabby's death will be August 27 to August 29...(using Merry Piglets). During that entire time, I believe it will be easily established that the van was parked within a few hundred feet of where she was found.
Click to expand...
Nice write up. But, if they didn't work backwards, why did Dr. Blue even mention DV?
 
LinneaE said:
He did offer $200 to the couple that picked him hitchhiking. When they picked him, iirc, he asked where they were going and they said Jackson. I think he took that mean Jackson Hole and once he realized they were going Jackson he wanted OUT. I don't think he wanted to go anywhere near Jackson out of fear of being recognized from the Merry Piglets incident.

My speculation is that maybe he thought he could go to Jackson Hole and possibly catch a bus or another ride to where he could.

Once they let him out I think he realized his options were limited and he then returned to the van and drove home to Florida.
Click to expand...
BBM
Very good speculation!
 
JayWill said:
If it breaks no laws, how is it he has been indicted on a charge of unauthorized use?
Click to expand...
Exactly! SAY while she was alive they informally shared an account (we don’t even know that)… are we now saying since that she’s dead he’s allowed to empty her accounts?! That’s her estate. They’re not married & he has no claim & that money should have gone to her parents. I don’t think I’ll ever get the argument that because he might have used her account when he was alive he’s allowed to raid it when she’s dead.

Edit to add: the nature of consent is that it is always renewed. If you allow someone to use your credit card once, just as an example, that doesn’t give them a license to use it again, a few more times, always & forever, or when you’re dead. It’s pretty simple.
 
Last edited:
LinneaE said:
If he left her body out in the open (unburied) he could have been hoping her remains would be scattered by animals., making it more difficult to find her.

As to the theft over 1,000 and unauthorized use charges - hard for him and a future defense to say she had given him permission to use the card/funds when she was deceased and unable to to do so.
Click to expand...
I think that not having her found for a long time was a central part of his strategy. I think he assumed that it would take much longer and that her remains would be scattered or too far gone to determine a cause of death, because she was left pretty far from a walking trail, which lessens the possibility that someone would have just happened to walk by by chance.

On balance, it would have been more risky to spend the time burying her, because it would raise the possibility that someone would witness him doing it. Plus, in that location, it would have been very, very challenging because of all of the rocks (as any gardener can tell you), and he probably would have had to risk being seen or caught on camera buying a shovel, because I doubt they happened to have one with them.

The risk and difficulty of burying her there, coupled with the fact that it wasn't on a trail or where people would necessarily be casually walking anytime soon, are reasons why I believe that they were camped at that spot and that he quickly moved away from the spot to avoid being connected with it. What he didn't count on was having his van caught on camera near the spot. If it hadn't been captured on video, or if witnesses hadn't remembered (and if her case hadn't gone viral, neither of those things probably would have happened), there might have been evidence to tie them to the general area, but there were lots of places where they could have camped, and finding her would have been exponentially less likely, especially that quickly.
 
NCWatcher said:
The problem I see is that the female witness's story isn't entirely consistent across accounts. That's obvious from the links you provided. For example, in one of the linked stories, she said (in a quote) BL & GP got kicked out of the restaurant. In another account she said she thought they were going to get kicked out. Could be bad reporting, could be a shifting story, we just don't know.

I don't see how that blames GP. And if it turns out the restaurant event wasn't the "trigger" that's not blaming her either. I do think the event helps pin down where they were that day at lunchtime between 1-2pm per the witness. And I'm sure staff can confirm the time they were there one way or they other (memory, card receipts)
JMO
Click to expand...
And I have no doubt the staff and other witnesses have given their statements about his bad behavior.
 
LinneaE said:
He did offer $200 to the couple that picked him hitchhiking. When they picked him, iirc, he asked where they were going and they said Jackson. I think he took that mean Jackson Hole and once he realized they were going Jackson he wanted OUT. I don't think he wanted to go anywhere near Jackson out of fear of being recognized from the Merry Piglets incident.

My speculation is that maybe he thought he could go to Jackson Hole and possibly catch a bus or another ride to where he could.

Once they let him out I think he realized his options were limited and he then returned to the van and drove home to Florida.
Click to expand...
Jackson is in Jackson Hole technically though. And typically Jackson Hole is what tourists call the town of Jackson even though JH includes the valley in general. It really doesn't make sense that this is what spooked him. He would be in Jackson Hole before the town of Jackson on the route out of the park so... He likely wanted to go the other direction at the fork as there is a split even though both roads can get you back to JH. One way takes you right by Spread Creek Camp, the way he eventually went with the second ride he hitched.
 
I have been holding of on participating in this thread. I am from Ireland and have been following this case since Gabby was reported missing, it made the news here in Ireland when it was confirmed BL returned to FL with her van and without her.
I am just utterly heartbroken for Gabby's family. I have seen the body cam footage, both of them, and once I seen that and heard that BL and family would not cooperate with LE, I knew in my heart she was gone.
I don't even know what to say or how to add to this thread other than to say that Gabby HAS touched so many lives all across the world. And as her Dad said on Dr. Phil, her death will not be in vain.
I'm not sure in the USA, but in Ireland it has opened must needed discussions in MSM about DV, and especially in younger people, and how to spot signs etc.
I am sorry this is one of my first posts here on WS, even though I have been a LONG time sleuth, so MODS I am sorry if I have broken any rules, and please feel free to remove/delete.
 
LinneaE said:
I believe he killed her the night of the Merry Piglets incident. It is my belief that he was enraged when left there because Gabby apologized to the staff for HIS behavior.

I think they returned to their campsite and it escalated until he strangled her. I would not be surprised that when the full autopsy is released to find out that she had defensive wounds. Also would not be surprised to find out that his DNA was found under her fingernails.

I think after he killed her he took off on foot, trying to reach some sort of civilization. My belief is that once the couple that picked him hitchhiking (the ones he offered $200 to) clarified they were going to Jackson, not Jackson Hole as he presumed, is when he demanded to be let out of the vehicle. I don't think he wanted to back to Jackson out of fear being recognized by anyone who may have witnessed his behavior at the Merry Piglets.

He then probably realized his best chance of getting away was to return to the van and drive home to Florida. I surmise that he disposed of both his and Gabby's phones somewhere between Wyoming and Florida.
Click to expand...

Could you tell me please the difference between Jackson and Jackson Hole and the directions the are from the campsite? Thanks.
 
imstilla.grandma said:
Speculation: See, I didn’t read her comment like that in my mind. I was thinking more like: Gabby wanted to order something off the Menu and they said they were out or something like that. Then Brian started yelling at the waitress, cause that little something set him off. Gabby is so embarrassed (maybe he’s done this type of thing before) and tries to get him to stop. She can’t take another public humiliation…imo
Click to expand...
I must be missing something. It could have been any one of any almost infinite number of things.

Having waited tables for many years, I can attest that people barely need an excuse to get pissed off in a restaurant. Usually you can chalk it up to grumpiness, poor manners, and people without much control over a lot in their lives enjoying a bit of a power trip over wait staff. Maybe they waited a minute too long before you came to the table. Maybe they were upset because they didn't want ice in their soda. Maybe they didn't know the guacamole costs extra... Maybe there was a legit complaint, like the wrong food delivered to the table after a long wait. Maybe it was something silly like there weren't enough tortilla chips in the free chip basket.

It didn't need to involve Gabby or her food at all for him to have gotten angry, so I'm not sure why that extra piece is coming in. Maybe there was something said that I missed. MOO.
 
harloweenquinn said:
I have been holding of on participating in this thread. I am from Ireland and have been following this case since Gabby was reported missing, it made the news here in Ireland when it was confirmed BL returned to FL with her van and without her.
I am just utterly heartbroken for Gabby's family. I have seen the body cam footage, both of them, and once I seen that and heard that BL and family would not cooperate with LE, I knew in my heart she was gone.
I don't even know what to say or how to add to this thread other than to say that Gabby HAS touched so many lives all across the world. And as her Dad said on Dr. Phil, her death will not be in vain.
I'm not sure in the USA, but in Ireland it has opened must needed discussions in MSM about DV, and especially in younger people, and how to spot signs etc.
I am sorry this is one of my first posts here on WS, even though I have been a LONG time sleuth, so MODS I am sorry if I have broken any rules, and please feel free to remove/delete.
Click to expand...
Welcome, and great first post. Well said!
 
NCWatcher said:
I was under the impression he wrote the overall report. If it was someone else who said TOD was 3-4 weeks before, I don't know who that is.
Click to expand...
Dr Blue mentioned a forensic anthropologist was involved in the case. That would be the likely person who established TOD.

"When human remains or a suspected burial are found, forensic anthropologists are called upon to gather information from the bones and their recovery context to determine who died, how they died, and how long ago they died"

Forensic Anthropology
 
I see the restaurant situation being discussed & I wanted to add this interview with the witness that posted about it on Instagram stories. I thought it was a pretty good interview. Idk if it’s been posted before, but I thought I’d just share bc folks were discussing that. :)
 
harloweenquinn said:
I have been holding of on participating in this thread. I am from Ireland and have been following this case since Gabby was reported missing, it made the news here in Ireland when it was confirmed BL returned to FL with her van and without her.
I am just utterly heartbroken for Gabby's family. I have seen the body cam footage, both of them, and once I seen that and heard that BL and family would not cooperate with LE, I knew in my heart she was gone.
I don't even know what to say or how to add to this thread other than to say that Gabby HAS touched so many lives all across the world. And as her Dad said on Dr. Phil, her death will not be in vain.
I'm not sure in the USA, but in Ireland it has opened must needed discussions in MSM about DV, and especially in younger people, and how to spot signs etc.
I am sorry this is one of my first posts here on WS, even though I have been a LONG time sleuth, so MODS I am sorry if I have broken any rules, and please feel free to remove/delete.
Click to expand...
It seems the entire world is sick of domestic violence. There have been some horrific instances of it in the last few years and women and men are saying, enough is enough.
 
ce4au said:
I see the restaurant situation being discussed & I wanted to add this interview with the witness that posted about it on Instagram stories. I thought it was a pretty good interview. Idk if it’s been posted before, but I thought I’d just share bc folks were discussing that. :)
Click to expand...
Ah didn't realise she had a following on instagram...
 
CharlestonGal said:
Dr Blue mentioned a forensic anthropologist was involved in the case. That would be the likely person who established TOD.

"When human remains or a suspected burial are found, forensic anthropologists are called upon to gather information from the bones and their recovery context to determine who died, how they died, and how long ago they died"

Forensic Anthropology
Click to expand...
Yes & a forensic entomologist was also involved, & based on insect activity & lifecycles they can determine a window to the TOD within a matter of days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 92 more.
Total: 1,921 (members: 93, guests: 1,828)

Online statistics

Members online
93
Guests online
1,828
Total visitors
1,921
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
599,230
Messages
18,092,260
Members
230,821
Latest member
ery810
Back
Top