GUILTY Yoselyn Ortega charged with 2 counts ea-1st and 2nd Degree Murder of Krim Children

[Hickory Born]

There are Spanish speaking Jews. I was good friends growing up (in Texas) with a girl who was absolutely Spanish speaking at home and absolutely Jewish. Her first name was Spanish, and her surname was Jewish (Lederman)

I went to synagogue with her.

The Krim's origins are California. There are certainly strong Spanish roots there. The children have Latin sounding name Leo Hidalgo, Lucia…

My best guess is that they were of mixed heritage.

As others have said, it is irrelevant, other than understanding that they were not members of the Y, but the JCC - which may or may not mean they are Jewish.

The "bacon" comment I quoted was the first thing I read that made me wonder if they might be Jewish.

IMO after reading Ms Krim's blog, I took the bacon comment to reference the family was more accustomed to organic healthy food and they did not serve fatty unhealthy bacon in their home.

 

[Darkman00]

Ya .. in the Blog's case .. "bacon" doesn't nessesary draw us a clear picture...

Could be just some saying...

There are lots' of bacon sayings out there:

1. Everything tastes better with bacon.

2. Who brings home the bacon.

3. It's OK to eat bacon as long as Rabbi blessed it (a joke)

Speaking of jokes .. I just thought of one:

What happens if you combine Kevin and Bacon -- Kevin Bacon

------

Speaking of Bacon jokes:
http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/foodjokes/baconjokes.html
http://www.jokes.com/search?keywords=bacon

etc

 

[greenpalm]

Ya .. in the Blog's case .. "bacon" doesn't nessesary draw us a clear picture...

Could be just some saying...

There are lots' of bacon sayings out there:

1. Everything tastes better with bacon.

2. Who brings home the bacon.

3. It's OK to eat bacon as long as Rabbi blessed it (a joke)

Speaking of jokes .. I just thought of one:

What happens if you combine Kevin and Bacon -- Kevin Bacon

------

Speaking of Bacon jokes:
http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/foodjokes/baconjokes.html
http://www.jokes.com/search?keywords=bacon

etc

When my husband says, someone is, "makin' bacon" he's using it as a euphemism for whoopie, which is a euphemism for sex, of course. Crazy goof.

 

[Darkman00]

Yes.. i heard that one too

 

[greenpalm]

Most of the media sources have indicated that NK did not witness the grisly crime scene. I have been wondering how this is possible. She was with her mother… where was she when her mother walked in on the horrific scene? I keep fearing maybe she did see it, or at least some of it. At the very least, we know that she saw a hysterical mom. (We throw the description hysterical around pretty casually, I believe it truly applies here)

But this abc article tells a different story.

To add to the horror, the little girl and her mother, 34-year-old Marina Krim, watched on as their nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, knifed herself in the throat and slit her wrists, according to police.(BBM)

 

[Angelo]

Obviously she wasn't picking up Lulu from school. It could be that the nanny picked up Lulu from school and took her home and killed them earlier in the day.

Perhaps the doorman didn't notice her coming in earlier. But I certainly think if the kids were found murdered a half an hour after they walked in the door he would have remembered it. If the nanny had just come in and Mrs Krim asked him if the nanny had come or gone why in the world would he say no, if they had just a half an hour walked passed him.

Children tend to be quite noticeable when coming or going.

I also would like someone to clarify where the mother was. Because I do believe that they were going to the pool. But I could be wrong about that.

But I don't understand why if a witnesses declares for days that the nanny in the elevator was a different nanny having been shown many pictures of her that people wouldn't even consider that maybe the elevator witness saw a different nanny.

To me it's the most obvious conclusion.


Also anyone who has ever brought a kid home from an outing who is "falling asleep" knows that walking in the door will most likely wake up the kid. This is why so many parents often drive around to be sure a kid is asleep in their car seat.

A kid does not go from droopy eyed to sound asleep to the degree that he doesn't wake up when his throat is slit in a matter of a few minutes. In addition Mrs. Krim seemed to have a very scheduled day with her kids. It makes absolutely no sense that Litos napping would correspond to the nanny having to leave the house again to take Lulu back out.

BBM~~~~~

I don't think we know for sure that the doorman stated he never saw them. From most accounts he says they did not leave the building.

Examples:

When Ms. Krim returned around 5:30 p.m., the commissioner said, she found a dark apartment. She went back down to the lobby to ask the doorman if he had seen the nanny and her children. When told that they had not left the building, she returned to the apartment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/n...de-nanny-is-arrested.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The building’s doorman told Krim the nanny hadn’t left, and she went upstairs to find the reason for the hold-up.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/ma_tot_slay_nightmare_FqFGZxHUdN3TfXxyVAziVK

Seeing no sign of the kids or their nanny inside the apartment, Krim went downstairs and asked the doorman if he had seen the three of them leave. He said he had not, and Krim and Nessie returned to the apartment.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nanny-admits-hurting-kids-killng-article-1.1196633

All the lights were out in the residence, so she went downstairs to ask the doorman whether her two other children and their nanny had gone outside. After the doorman said they had not, the mother went back upstairs and started looking around, Kelly said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/25/us/new-york-nanny-deaths/index.html

“Something happened to my kids!” screamed the sobbing mom, who wrapped the nanny’s neck with a towel.

Doorman **** ***** told the New York Post he heard the distraught mother's cries and called 911. “She was crying. She was screaming,” he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/2...anny-kept-detailed-family-blog/#ixzz2Be7bwYkJ

Krim saw that the apartment was dark and returned to the lobby to ask the doorman if the nanny and kids had gone out, Kelly said. The doorman said no, and she returned to the apartment and went into the bathroom, he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/27/usa-stabbing-newyork-idUSL1E8LQH3E20121027

 

[Hickory Born]

Most of the media sources have indicated that NK did not witness the grisly crime scene. I have been wondering how this is possible. She was with her mother… where was she when her mother walked in on the horrific scene? I keep fearing maybe she did see it, or at least some of it. At the very least, we know that she saw a hysterical mom. (We throw the description hysterical around pretty casually, I believe it truly applies here)

But this abc article tells a different story.

I am picturing in my mind, both mom & Nessie walking into the apt. Mom goes looking around the apt and Nessie runs to her own room or the kitchen (3 yrs old little girl next door to me always checks out my refrig first thing when she comes in my house). I don't think Ms Krim would have been carrying Nessie when she entered the apt. After viewing the scene, I think Ms Krim would have run to pick up Nessie (to protect her and keep her from walking in the bathroom). From that point on IMO Ms. Krim cradled Nessie in her arms.

 

[Hickory Born]

IMO the next thing we will hear from MSM will be the name of the attorney YO has been appointed by the court, following that the Arraignment. Maybe somewhere between these two events, the Grand Jury will be involved...I don't know NY State law regarding murder and Grand Juries.

 

[greenpalm]

Any word on YO's condition?

 

[Darkman00]

Surviving Toddler 'Will Be Fine,' Reveals Grandmother Of Children Allegedly Murdered By Nanny

Posted on Nov 08, 2012 @ 12:45PM

By Debbie Emery - Radar Reporter

The family of the children allegedly murdered by their New York nanny is still coming to terms with their loss in what their grandmother has called, "a horror story," while shielding their remaining child from the devastation.

As RadarOnline.com previously reported, Yoselyn Ortega allegedly committed the horrific slayings of two-year-old Leo and Lucia Krim, six, who were found by their mother stabbed to death in a bathtub in their Manhattan apartment on October 25.

Kevin and Marina Krim's middle child, three-year-old Nessie, was at swim class with her mom when the deadly carnage took place at the family home, and her parents have since done their upmost to protect her from the shocking aftermath.

"I have seen her and she will be fine, she has wonderful parents," the children's paternal grandmother Karen Krim told RadarOnline.com in an exclusive interview on Wednesday from her home in Camarillo, California. "She will have lots of love and will be fine"...

-----

Read more at the Source: http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/11/nanny-murder-new-york-surviving-family-nessie-krim

 

[QueenD]

Oh Queen, I just try to correct some things, I do not report any news here. I am honoring the family request for privacy.
So I will be here, but sorry I won’t be reporting. For example I did not say a thing on the memorial other
then what you may have seen reported here which was very minimal, and knew about it a week before the event.
I am mum.

We made a bond to support this family, I am on 150%

That is what I mean (bolded) , thanks.:smile:

 

[songline]

There are Spanish speaking Jews. I was good friends growing up (in Texas) with a girl who was absolutely Spanish speaking at home and absolutely Jewish. Her first name was Spanish, and her surname was Jewish (Lederman)

I went to synagogue with her.

The Krim's origins are California. There are certainly strong Spanish roots there. The children have Latin sounding name Leo Hidalgo, Lucia…

My best guess is that they were of mixed heritage.

As others have said, it is irrelevant, other than understanding that they were not members of the Y, but the JCC - which may or may not mean they are Jewish.The "bacon" comment I quoted was the first thing I read that made me wonder if they might be Jewish.

Absolutely, my Rabbi is from South America.
understood

 

[gitana1]

A disgruntled employee could also be one who is under tremendous stress due to low wages and long hours, in addition to other personal problems or health issues they may be experiencing. In this case, the employee feels powerless to change their circumstances, especially if the employee has attempted to convey this to the employer with no satisfactory resolution. News reports that I've read depict YO as someone who had been dissatisfied with her job for awhile.

I have seen the contrary, until the 11-5-12 story. Can you point me to news reports that depict this woman as having been dissatisfied with her job for awhile?

And a friend of Ms. Ortega recalled how fondly that she would speak of the Krims, saying she was well paid and treated decently. Ms. Ortega said she happily put in extra hours to help Ms. Krim whenever she needed it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/n...-resented-her-employers-police-say.html?_r=1&

For what it's worth, I have never known of a family to actually go to their employee's homeland and stay with their family. To me, it appears the Krims treated her very, very well. I flat disbelieve that their were fights or obvious tension between the Krims and YO. This family seem like people who go above and beyond to make sure the person taking care of their kids is treated like family, appreciated and paid well.

The Krim's also appear to be people who adore their children and who would never leave their kids with an angry nanny who just fought with them.

Further, some reports appear to show that the nanny wanted more hours and was given more hours by the Krims, just to help her financially. I saw zero to suggest she was overworked and zero to suggest that she wanted more money without having to work for it. Instead, it seems she had limited hours with the Krims, thus they tried to help her by referring her out and also giving her more hours. I just don't get any sense that this was a truly disgruntled person having problems with her employers. Zero facts point to such a work climate or issues between them leading up to the massacre, with the exception of the just leaked comments that do not include context. In other words, even if she is making such comments now, there is no proof that it's true. LE has already apparently stated there is no evidence of any fight, IIRC.

We don't know how much her salary was. For all we know, the Krims might have paid her very well.

Everything I have seen about this family points to people with class and integrity. I am 100% confident they paid her well.

BBM: I have an MI daughter and have been to many courses on MI, support groups, walks to raise money, talks to change laws etc....

I can tell you for sure that I heard this very often from MI people sharing that they knew they did bad things, they knew it when they were doing it, and during the course of doing something bad. They knew that may have even landed them in jail, they knew they may get in trouble.
I can say with certainty that most MI people DO know what they are doing, but are devoid of feeling for others. (missing a few sensitivity chips)

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said except one and that's a really big one. I 100% disagree that most mentally ill people are devoid of feelings for others. With all due respect, no way, no how.

Some people with personality disorders, such as narcissistic, anti-social or borderline persons have such issues and sometimes, people in a manic stage of bi polar disorder, have a hard time focusing on how others may feel. And of course, someone in the midst of a full blown psychotic episode is not thinking about much that is rational, especially how another person may be feeling.

But other than those few exceptions, mentally ill people have the same capacity to feel empathy and the same sensitivities as anyone else.

 

[songline]

BBM~~~~~

I don't think we know for sure that the doorman stated he never saw them. From most accounts he says they did not leave the building.

Examples:

I asked the DM if anyone made a 911 call he said NO I made it right there in front of him.

Lulu was in school --- somebody did bring her home. Something is not right with his report.
Like I said - I did not know it was them in the elevator till I saw the nanny wheeled out...I tried to tell him that and he was so scared, he said I don’t know, I don’t know... Like I said to LE... He may not have seen her leave in the gurney and may not have connected whom he DID see.
MO

 

[JodyMT]

I wonder if we will ever find out what the Krims were unhappy with the nanny about, telling her that if she didn't do better, they would have to fire her. Was it her attitude, was she too gruff with the children?

We know the nanny said that she wasn't happy because the Krims were always telling her what to do, but did she say that to their face? LOL I can't imagine it. I know she told them that she was hired to watch the children and not clean, but did they threaten to fire her before that conversation or after?

 

[georgiagirl]

I am picturing in my mind, both mom & Nessie walking into the apt. Mom goes looking around the apt and Nessie runs to her own room or the kitchen (3 yrs old little girl next door to me always checks out my refrig first thing when she comes in my house). I don't think Ms Krim would have been carrying Nessie when she entered the apt. After viewing the scene, I think Ms Krim would have run to pick up Nessie (to protect her and keep her from walking in the bathroom). From that point on IMO Ms. Krim cradled Nessie in her arms.

HB, I hope your scenario is what really happened for N's sake! BUT in reality I picture something more like mom and N walk into the dark apartment calling out to no answer then mom walks into the bathroom with MAYBE N following behind her as she discovers the grisly scene, the nanny is caught by surprise and starts to cut her own throat as mom screams and turns to sheild N from the scene running with N screaming out of the apartment.

I feel like mom would have had a reaction the second she saw the scene, no way could she keep her composure after seeing that which IMO would bring N running to see what the commotion is about. Mom may have turned quickly enough to shield N from seeing the kids in the tub but she may have seen YO...

 

[songline]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/n...-resented-her-employers-police-say.html?_r=1&

I have seen the contrary, until the 11-5-12 story. can you point me to news reports that depict this woman as having been dissatisfied with her job for awhile?

For what it's worth, I have never known of a family to actually go to their employee's homeland and stay with their family. To me, it appears the Krims treated her very, very well. I flat disbelieve that their were fights or obvious tension between the Krims and YO. This family seem like people who go above and beyond to make sure the person taking care of their kids is treated like family, appreciated and paid well.

The Krim's also appear to be people who adore their children and who would never leave their kids with an angry nanny who just fought with them.

Further, some reports appear to show that the nanny wanted more hours and was given more hours by the Krims, just to help her financially. I saw zero to suggest she was overworked and zero to suggest that she wanted more money without having to work for it. Instead, it seems she had limited hours with the Krims, thus they tried to help her by referring her out and also giving her more hours. I just don't get any sense that this was a truly disgruntled person having problems with her employers. Zero facts point to such a work climate or issues between them leading up to the massacre, with the exception of the just leaked comments that do not include context. In other words, even if she is making such comments now, there is no proof that it's true. LE has already apparently stated there is no evidence of any fight, IIRC.



Everything I have seen about this family points to people with class and integrity. I am 100% confident they paid her well.



I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said except one and that's a really big one. I 100% disagree that most mentally ill people are devoid of feelings for others. With all due respect, no way, no how.

Some people with personality disorders, such as narcissistic, anti-social or borderline persons have such issues and sometimes, people in a manic stage of bi polar disorder, have a hard time focusing on how others may feel. And of course, someone in the midst of a full blown psychotic episode is not thinking about much that is rational, especially how another person may be feeling.

But other than those few exceptions, mentally ill people have the same capacity to feel empathy and the same sensitivities as anyone else.

the levels of insensitivity I have seen is huge if they are not on meds. BUT...when they are on meds I have to agree totally with what you say.

 

[Darkman00]

Who knows, maybe this is part of it:

"... Marina didn't think Yoselyn was interacting with the kids enough and was giving them junk food when she was out of sight ..."

Source: http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/11/new-york-nanny-killed-children-argument-mother-krim

I wonder if we will ever find out what the Krims were unhappy with the nanny about, telling her that if she didn't do better, they would have to fire her. Was it her attitude, was she too gruff with the children?

We know the nanny said that she wasn't happy because the Krims were always telling her what to do, but did she say that to their face? LOL I can't imagine it. I know she told them that she was hired to watch the children and not clean, but did they threaten to fire her before that conversation or after?

 

[Confusion]

the levels of insensitivity I have seen is huge if they are not on meds. BUT...when they are on meds I have to agree totally with what you say.

I'd have to say the level of insensitivity among supposedly mentally healthy people is even higher. A very high number of people who are mentally ill suffer because they ARE sensitive to other people's needs/feelings. One of the most common problems I've seen for those suffering from anxiety and/or depression is that they feel shame for not being good enough for their loved ones. It's also very common to worry about what others think/feel about you or your actions. I find it to be much worse in those who are unmedicated most of the time. Anxiety and depression are the 2 most common forms of mental illness.

 

[JodyMT]

Who knows, maybe this is part of it:

"... Marina didn't think Yoselyn was interacting with the kids enough and was giving them junk food when she was out of sight ..."

Source: http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/11/new-york-nanny-killed-children-argument-mother-krim

Well if what is written is true, I stand by my belief that the nanny probably knew her time with the Krims was very short. She might have felt like Marina was going to fire her as soon as her husband got back home. Giving an employee the silent treatment speaks volumes. Marina must be tearing herself up for ever letting her back in the apartment.