Zellner Tweets

[RANCH]

So when did the towel incident happen? Oh that's right, we don't know. And did she say he creeped her out? nope, not according to Dawn (if we believe what Dawn says). "Creeped her out" was from Kratz, not Dawn when she relayed the convo in the court room (not in front of the jury). Did it happen before October 10th?

I wonder why Steven didn't *67 when he called AutoTrader? Maybe because it was a business? He sure wasn't "hiding" it then.

And let's put this into perspective.... her first appointment that day was made by someone other than the person she met with and at a different address than the person that called, was he "luring" her too?

And as I think Safeguard pointed out AVERY ROAD would not have been new to TH, pretty big tip off that it's the Avery's IMO It's almost laughable at this point that people still think she was "lured" there.

BBM

Go ahead and laugh at me. I'm used to personal attacks when my point of view is not aligned with the majority.

By the way my dad was born in Regina and I have family in Saskatchewan. You could be my cousin. Wouldn't that be a hoot.

 

[RANCH]

Her first statement expains links...

Mod Sillybilly said she needs to provide a link.

 

[dexter75]

Why would one then go tell EA, DA and others that he had to meet her too, why wouldn't you just keep that to yourself if you had a sinister plot. It doesn't make sense.

Ok~~you guys got me on board~~I'll admit it~~I don't think SA did it!

:blowkiss:

Well, welcome aboard dear =)

May I ask why, the change of heart?

 

[Sinsaint]

Simple & logical deduction: If TH thought she'd be meeting with SA, then she might not have been willing to go and photograph the van (since she told her coworker SA creeped her out). So SA made it look like it would be Barb Janda TH would be meeting that day. The initial phone call to arrange the appointment was made from the Janda phone. It was SA who creeped out TH, not others on or associated with the business (like the Jandas).

Then, when SA called TH directly from his cell phone (twice) that afternoon he obscured his phone number so TH wouldn't know it was really him calling.

One slight problem with your theory. How did Avery know about this conversations? Did DP call SA to let him TH had complained about being creeped out? That would be no.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

From the Jury Trial Transcripts....

A. Yes.
Q. You were a receptionist with Auto Trader during
the fall of 2005; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what kind of relationship did you have with Teresa; in other words, did you and Ms Halbach
have occasion to discuss matters of a more personal nature?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. During the course of those discussions, did Ms. Halbach ever describe for you a contact or
incident that she had with the defendant, Steven Avery?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe, first of all, the words that she used and then we will describe the
circumstances surrounding that. So first tell us what she told you.
A. After she was out there, around October 10th, it was like about a week or so after that, she had
stated to me that he had come out in a towel.
Q. He meaning whom?
A. Steven Avery.
Q. Had come out where?
A. She didn't specify, she just said that he had 1 come out, just in a towel.
Q. All right. Did Ms Halbach describe for you anything else about that, any other details about
seeing Mr. Avery in a towel?
A. The only -- I just said, really, and she said, yeah, and she said, yeah, and she laughed and
just said kind of, ewww, you know.
Q. Okay. You said kind of what?
A. Ewww.
Q. Ewww.
A. Yeah, just that.
Q. I guess not in a positive way?
A. Not in a positive way, no.
Q. Did Ms Halbach -- or was she seeming to describe a specific event; in other words, was she
remembering that event when she was describing it for you?
A. Yes.

 

[missy1974]

But, she answered the call at 2:24pm and still continued onto the property. If she was creeped out~~she had the option to call back and bow out. Oh, something just came up at home, I won't be able to make it today.....

I still say she was leaving or had left when she talked to Dawn. LOL

 

[missy1974]

BBM

Go ahead and laugh at me. I'm used to personal attacks when my point of view is not aligned with the majority.

By the way my dad was born in Regina and I have family in Saskatchewan. You could be my cousin. Wouldn't that be a hoot.

I really don't want it to be personal, so I apologize. I just find it so not plausible at this point, but that's JMO :truce:


Is your Dad still a Rider fan??? LOL (if you answer who are the Riders, I know the answer lol) I wasn't born in Regina, but grew up there and left as soon as I could haha The majority of my family is still there too... and uhmmm my one side of the family is huge ... ya know, cousins I've never met :thinking:

 

[RANCH]

From the Jury Trial Transcripts....

A. Yes.
Q. You were a receptionist with Auto Trader during
the fall of 2005; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what kind of relationship did you have with Teresa; in other words, did you and Ms Halbach
have occasion to discuss matters of a more personal nature?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. During the course of those discussions, did Ms. Halbach ever describe for you a contact or
incident that she had with the defendant, Steven Avery?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe, first of all, the words that she used and then we will describe the
circumstances surrounding that. So first tell us what she told you.
A. After she was out there, around October 10th, it was like about a week or so after that, she had
stated to me that he had come out in a towel.
Q. He meaning whom?
A. Steven Avery.
Q. Had come out where?
A. She didn't specify, she just said that he had 1 come out, just in a towel.
Q. All right. Did Ms Halbach describe for you anything else about that, any other details about
seeing Mr. Avery in a towel?
A. The only -- I just said, really, and she said, yeah, and she said, yeah, and she laughed and
just said kind of, ewww, you know.
Q. Okay. You said kind of what?
A. Ewww.
Q. Ewww.
A. Yeah, just that.
Q. I guess not in a positive way?
A. Not in a positive way, no.
Q. Did Ms Halbach -- or was she seeming to describe a specific event; in other words, was she
remembering that event when she was describing it for you?
A. Yes.

This witness seems believable to me. It shows that TH was repulsed by SA coming out in only a towel. That's very understandable.

It also makes it believable to me that SA would use tactics in the future to disguise his identity in order for TH to come to him. JMO

 

[RANCH]

I really don't want it to be personal, so I apologize. I just find it so not plausible at this point, but that's JMO :truce:


Is your Dad still a Rider fan??? LOL (if you answer who are the Riders, I know the answer lol) I wasn't born in Regina, but grew up there and left as soon as I could haha The majority of my family is still there too... and uhmmm my one side of the family is huge ... ya know, cousins I've never met :thinking:

My dad wasn't much of a sports fan and I don't know who the Riders are.

I feel when posters say that another posters ideas or opinions are "ridiculous" or "laughable" it makes it difficult for an open discussion to happen. It becomes too personal. I see this happen on this forum and to be honest it keeps me from posting some of my thoughts. And that's a shame IMO.

 

[missy1974]

From the Jury Trial Transcripts....

A. Yes.
Q. You were a receptionist with Auto Trader during
the fall of 2005; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what kind of relationship did you have with Teresa; in other words, did you and Ms Halbach
have occasion to discuss matters of a more personal nature?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. During the course of those discussions, did Ms. Halbach ever describe for you a contact or
incident that she had with the defendant, Steven Avery?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe, first of all, the words that she used and then we will describe the
circumstances surrounding that. So first tell us what she told you.
A. After she was out there, around October 10th, it was like about a week or so after that, she had
stated to me that he had come out in a towel.
Q. He meaning whom?
A. Steven Avery.
Q. Had come out where?
A. She didn't specify, she just said that he had 1 come out, just in a towel.
Q. All right. Did Ms Halbach describe for you anything else about that, any other details about
seeing Mr. Avery in a towel?
A. The only -- I just said, really, and she said, yeah, and she said, yeah, and she laughed and
just said kind of, ewww, you know.
Q. Okay. You said kind of what?
A. Ewww.
Q. Ewww.
A. Yeah, just that.
Q. I guess not in a positive way?
A. Not in a positive way, no.
Q. Did Ms Halbach -- or was she seeming to describe a specific event; in other words, was she
remembering that event when she was describing it for you?
A. Yes.

Should we expand on that.... sure... lets...

Q. Hi. Do you think this was a week or more after October 10th?

A. Yes, that I talked to her. I don't know when the incident exactly was.

Q. Okay. But you're probably talking to Teresa Halbach October 17, or some time shortly after that?

A. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Q. She did not say that this had happened on October10 or any specific date?

A. She did not specify the date, no.

Q. She didn't call you to tell you about this incident?

A. Not specifically, no, it just came up in conversation.

Q. You were chitty chatting with her?

A. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Q. And the reaction was ewww?

A. Yeah, it was unfavorable.

Q. Yeah. And then she sort of laughed it off?

A. Right.

Q. This was 10 -- 10, 15 seconds of conversation?

A. I would say, yes.

***** more questions about their conversation that day *****

Q. She did not give you any sense of time on when this had occurred?

A. No, she did not.


The court ultimately decided to not allow the testimony: (page 74/75)

The lack of specificity and the uncertainty as to exactly when the statement was made and the fact that different inferences could be drawn from it because there is so little information about its background.

In case anyone wants to read all her testimony it can be found here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoM1JOSXI5OWFySm8/view It starts on page 59, it's not very long.

 

[missy1974]

This witness seems believable to me. It shows that TH was repulsed by SA coming out in only a towel. That's very understandable.

It also makes it believable to me that SA would use tactics in the future to disguise his identity in order for TH to come to him. JMO

It's because we have different views on what it could mean that the courts didn't allow it. If Dawn could have been more specific, than maybe he would have allowed it. I actually think that if she had called it into AutoTrader as a 'complaint', it would have been allowed. But even Dawn said they normally chit chatted about different things, funny things that happened, etc.

I think the point BCA was trying to make was that Dawn didn't say that Teresa said he "creeped her out". Those words are out of the mouth of Kratz, not Dawn or Teresa.

 

[dexter75]

This witness seems believable to me. It shows that TH was repulsed by SA coming out in only a towel. That's very understandable.

It also makes it believable to me that SA would use tactics in the future to disguise his identity in order for TH to come to him. JMO

" Laughed and said eew " = repulsed by him? hmmm.. guess you had to be there.

I took it as like when a group of girls are sitting together people watching, or at a club. Say a goofy looking creeper dude, who thinks he's God's gift to women approaches one in the group & the girls turn to each other with a laugh & a yuck/eew/no thanks type reaction.

 

[RANCH]

Should we expand on that.... sure... lets...

Q. Hi. Do you think this was a week or more after October 10th?

A. Yes, that I talked to her. I don't know when the incident exactly was.

Q. Okay. But you're probably talking to Teresa Halbach October 17, or some time shortly after that?

A. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Q. She did not say that this had happened on October10 or any specific date?

A. She did not specify the date, no.

Q. She didn't call you to tell you about this incident?

A. Not specifically, no, it just came up in conversation.

Q. You were chitty chatting with her?

A. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Q. And the reaction was ewww?

A. Yeah, it was unfavorable.

Q. Yeah. And then she sort of laughed it off?

A. Right.

Q. This was 10 -- 10, 15 seconds of conversation?

A. I would say, yes.

***** more questions about their conversation that day *****

Q. She did not give you any sense of time on when this had occurred?

A. No, she did not.


The court ultimately decided to not allow the testimony: (page 74/75)

The lack of specificity and the uncertainty as to exactly when the statement was made and the fact that different inferences could be drawn from it because there is so little information about its background.

In case anyone wants to read all her testimony it can be found here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoM1JOSXI5OWFySm8/view It starts on page 59, it's not very long.

So the jury never got to hear this damning testimony? That's not right IMO. I thought that everything went against SA during his trial? Apparently not. JMO

 

[missy1974]

One slight problem with your theory. How did Avery know about this conversations? Did DP call SA to let him TH had complained about being creeped out? That would be no.

That's a good point Sinsaint. I hadn't thought of that. SA would have to have a clue that Teresa was uncomfortable and would give him reason to "hide" it.

On October 31st, he had no reason to believe she wouldn't come if he called her, either through AT or directly for a hustle shot.

 

[RANCH]

" Laughed and said eew " = repulsed by him? hmmm.. guess you had to be there.

I took it as like when a group of girls are sitting together people watching, or at a club. Say a goofy looking creeper dude, who thinks he's God's gift to women approaches one in the group & the girls turn to each other with a laugh & a yuck/eew/no thanks type reaction.

Teresa wasn't with a group of girls when this strange occurrence happened. She was alone. I don't blame her for being afraid of Steven Avery. JMO

 

[missy1974]

So the jury never got to hear this damning testimony? That's not right IMO. I thought that everything went against SA during his trial? Apparently not. JMO

But that's the thing, IMO it's not damning. However, it didn't stop Kratz or others from putting it out there, and mischaracterizing it, as supporting evidence that he was guilty, which is just downright wrong IMO Even after transcripts, documents, etc have been released, people are still saying that Teresa told Dawn he "creeped her out", when that is just factually wrong.

 

[dexter75]

That's a good point Sinsaint. I hadn't thought of that. SA would have to have a clue that Teresa was uncomfortable and would give him reason to "hide" it.

On October 31st, he had no reason to believe she wouldn't come if he called her, either through AT or directly for a hustle shot.

Another Kratz reason to be GUILTY blown away:laughing:

 

[RANCH]

But that's the thing, IMO it's not damning. However, it didn't stop Kratz or others from putting it out there, and mischaracterizing it, as supporting evidence that he was guilty, which is just downright wrong IMO Even after transcripts, documents, etc have been released, people are still saying that Teresa told Dawn he "creeped her out", when that is just factually wrong.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I think that it's extremely damning testimony.

 

[dexter75]

But that's the thing, IMO it's not damning. However, it didn't stop Kratz or others from putting it out there, and mischaracterizing it, as supporting evidence that he was guilty, which is just downright wrong IMO Even after transcripts, documents, etc have been released, people are still saying that Teresa told Dawn he "creeped her out", when that is just factually wrong.

Yes, FACTually, it is incorrect and shouldn't keep being repeated.
Thank you, to ALL who post FACTS, from actual REPORTS & DOCUMENTS:tyou:
You are appreciated!

 

[missy1974]

" Laughed and said eew " = repulsed by him? hmmm.. guess you had to be there.

I took it as like when a group of girls are sitting together people watching, or at a club. Say a goofy looking creeper dude, who thinks he's God's gift to women approaches one in the group & the girls turn to each other with a laugh & a yuck/eew/no thanks type reaction.

Lets be honest.....

If I had to see SA in a towel, I am definitely going to say ewwwwwww LOL

The only people that want to see that are his new groupies that want to be his girlfriend..... now that's laughable! I don't get the jailhouse groupie thing AT ALL! Even if SA is innocent of this crime... I don't think he is a nice person to anyone that is close to him.