Zenaida's Sawgrass Apt's Visit Date Changed From April to June

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Hello WS :)

SP said Cindy and Casey told her about someone who was watching/babysitting Caylee but SP thought they were saying, "Danny." Finally, she asked and was corrected with the name "Zanny."

RG: Um, the thing that struck me when I was reading those notes about her story about Zenaida, it hasn't changed word for word since April of '06. It's still exactly the same story. Um, when she told it to us, I think I told you on the phone, ah, from the end of her, her babysitter at that point was Lauren Gibbs.
LE: Um-hum
RG: Lauren suddenly couldn't do it anymore. I think she was going back to school. Now she has no babysitter for Caylee and she's supposedly working for Kodak at Universal.
LE: And this is when again?
RG: This is uh, this is March, April and part of May '06
LE: Okay
(skip)
RG: ...and when she finally said she found someone as I told you on the phone it was really odd, rather than just saying yeah I got that worked out, "Oh, yeah I've found this lady eh, Zenaida Gonzalez and she, she watches my friend Jeffery Hopkins son Zachary. Zachary and Caylee play together and they, they love to be together so this will work out great."

OCSO Supplemental Report
I asked Mr. Garcia if he could produce the original guest card. He retrieved the guest card from an office file. I asked him to examine the document and asked him if he was sure he filled out the form and if he was sure of the date of the Ms. Gonzalez visit. Mr. Garcia told me he filled out the form and confirmed he recognized his handwriting. Mr. Garcia wrote, "I am sure of her date of visit because out standard operating procedure is for us to fill out the guest card in the presence of the visitor. I wrote the names of Jasmine and Michelle on the form because Ms. Gonzalez told me her children would be living here with her."

Mr. Garcia offered, after examining the guest card, he believed he conducted the visitation with Ms. Gonzalez in Spanish. He told me he believed the visitation was conducted in Spanish because he wrote the names of the children in Spanish on the visitation document.
(skip)
On August 7, 2008 I met with Detective Corporal Melich and briefed him regarding the aforementioned detail. He confirmed sworn testimony had already been obtained from Ms. Gonzalez regarding the visitation to the Sawgrass complex.
(skip)
Ms. Macklin continued her written statement by writing, "I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I do not. I checked for her information in our database(sic)and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008. She had expressed interest in a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment for herself and 'Jasmine and Michelle.' I informed the detective of this and let him know we lost contact with her because her telephone number had been disconnected.
(end)

We have SP/Cindy, and RG saying Casey spoke of "Zenaida, Zanny" as someone who she had to watch Caylee. RG says her story hasn't changed one bit from 2006. Casey was using this name before Sawgrass.

LP says(if taken as fact which I don't know if it is fact). (paraphrased) "Casey went to Sawgrass in Tony's Jeep(green) the same day she met with M. Crisp at the apartment complex where he works." I never read where he said the manager called out ZG's name and Casey heard it, fyi not to make a point.

What are the chances that Casey would be using the name Zenaida F. Gonzalez as a nanny(having made it up)and then staking out an apartment complex and hearing that name called, or finding the card with the same name she "needs"? Slim to none. Truly, this is the part of the case where I am willing to believe there is something critical to this case that we are not privy to?

I know all of this has been covered in the "zenaida" thread(s) but I am looking at this straight from the Sawgrass perspective. With the LE statements above it is clear that ZG did visit and fill out(had it filled for her)a visitor card. I remember Cindy at the Morgan depo being so adamant regarding that card and the fact that the last name seemed to be spelled different than the name: "Gonzalez" that Casey was giving in her statements to LE or what she had told Cindy, George and Lee.

I don't think ZG is Casey's ZFG(Casey was very clear there was a "hyphen Fernandez") but I think we have our extreme premeditation here. I listed this in our "coincidences" thread but I am having to come to the personal conclusion that this was no coincidence. Did Casey stalk ZG? Did she figure that she had been using this name, had decided to kill Caylee and was ready with a story to "pin" it on "A Zanny?" She picked a Zenaida and followed her around to get "real" details so she could make statements like "she's in the system, check" with such confidence? And, all the other details regarding Zanny that never go anywhere or check out completely.

I'm not the first to speculate on this, it's just coming to that for me now. I think. :waitasec:

Zanny the babysitter never existed. Cindy may have been aware of that name before Caylee went missing, but WSers put it together that Cindy tried calling the numbers Casey gave for the nanny and found out for herself there was no Zanny. Casey used the nanny as a cover story for a long time, and when she decided to kill her daughter she premeditated blaming it on the "nanny."

I was on the fence about premeditation(how long? minutes, days, hours) because the longer the premeditation, the more cruel I must see Casey. Is this why the DP is on the table? Is this what LE and the SA know?

IMHO, Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez was created when RG/Jesse/the Grunds would not babysit Caylee. Casey had gone from Lauren to the Grunds but she had "used up" the Grunds. When RG asked what she was going to do, she created ZFG, that's why RG found the story odd-with all the details-he was listening to a Casey fabrication. WSers information shows Cindy did start watching Caylee most of the time after the Grunds, that is why the tension was growing in the house: Casey having to "work" so much and so late(!!) and Cindy feeling taken advantage of. The times when Casey could take Caylee(like to RM's), but Casey wanted Cindy to think she was at work: Casey used Zanny the nanny with Cindy. And, Cindy passed the stories of a Zanny to SP who thought she was saying "Danny."

"Hints," that is why they were the three that could say they heard of Zanny before Caylee went missing. Since Casey already had that idea set up with Cindy, she went looking for information on "Zenaidas" for when she murdered Caylee. IIRC, Casey refuses to clear ZG and has a counter suit against her. Although, we know ZG from Sawgrass does not fit the description of Zanny the Nanny as Cindy pointed out to everyone(in a tactless and ignorant way) at the Morgan and Morgan depo. In stalking ZG for info, she was probably not meaning to actually pin the murder on any one actual person but now she is pinned in to the lies she has been caught in and the story makes no sense.

Where does JBP fit into this? Another story? Proof of premeditation that there were/are several stories ready made to explain the (surprise) kidnapping/disappearance/murder of Caylee?

...JS...(just sleuthing)
 
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.
Click to expand...

This case and its cast of characters is downright bizarre...I will grant you that. But when you really start stripping away the fat and the look over there misdirection...it really is a simple case.
KC stated in a written and an oral statement to LE: I dropped Caylee off at the SawGrass where Zanny lives. Zanny who has a friend named Raquel Farrell that works at TGIF that no one can find. Zanny has a mother no one can find that never lived where KC claimed she did. Zanny whom she met through J Hopkins (just not the one she went to school with...a wholely separate one that she met through her fictious ongoing job after she abandoned her real one) who has a son named Zachary that Zanny was also babysitting...a son who along with this other JHopkins no one can find.
The real question and reason for the weirdness...is how exactly did KC center in on the name ZFG...and why was she allegedly creating a profile for a fictious ZFG on her computer?

Honestly, if this were a case of the ---- who knew too much (meaning KC) really, why would such nebulous types kidnap and kill her daughter....??? why not just remove the source of the fungus...KC? This is a simple story when you really start to break it down...jmo.

But I agree, I have never seen so much evidence against so worthless a client as KC (Scott Peterson's prosecutors would have salivated over as much...and he sits on death row) and yet so many twists and turns...about someone too lazy to graduate from highschool when given the chance...much less clean her room.

Oh, as far as I know, KC never actually told LE the other JBP story...so we sit with Zanny lives at the SawGrass and I dropped off Caylee at the base of the stairs of Zanny's apartment. Does anyone else think it is odd that zanny would steal Caylee because KC was a bad mother...and kill her...instead of raising Caylee...with all of that money Zanny has...and giving Caylee a life she could not with her so obviously inept and selfish and immature mother? Why steal her, Caylee, to kill her? Makes not one bit of sense. Or maybe KC was "involved" in something and they killed Caylee to keep KC quiet? Why not just kill KC...? Duh.

Case is simple: KC is guilty. The rest is just window dressing for (1) peeps who don't believe women kill (2) peeps who have a sociopath in their own family and refuse to acknowledge it (3) peeps who just want their to be this huge movie like twist (4) peeps who haven't looked at the totality of the evidence against KC.

But the SawGrass Zanny thing is very weird. It just doesn't do much for me...other than to go, well that's odd...but 31 one days and a mother who was ugly coping around grabbing other girls breasts and getting freedom tattoos.
 
Something that makes no sense with ZFG living at Sawgrass or any where else for that matter. If ZFG was JH's girlfriend at one time and she watched his son Zach prior to her watching Caylee (for 1 1/2 to 2 years) and Zach was only a little bit older than Caylee how did JH come to having a child with no wife. At the time KC claimed to have known ZFG for 4 years and was introduced to her through JH. We know the story is untrue but if we were to research the facts according to KC somehow it makes no sense. So this child was born without a mother?????? And was JH dating a teen at the time who somehow became this expert in childcare?????
 
Honestly, I believe the Cast Iron Tattoo shop and the people connected to it are at the core of this mystery. Many of them were friends with ZG's boyfriend on myspace. Do we know when S. Daly and his brother started working there? Casey may have heard ZG's name while getting a tattoo, or while visiting, and may have also heard about the apartment hunt that way. I wish I was a detective on this case LOL and could ask questions of the main players that were overlooked at the time of their interviews.
 
To me, the guest card Garcia filled out pretty clearly says 06/17. I don't really understand how that six was ever confused with a four.

The names Jasmin and Michelle popped out at me as being familiar with the ZFG story she kept regurgitating to police. Where those the names of other children she'd supposedly watched?

And what about that traffic ticket that was issued to a Zenaida Gonzales around that time frame also?

Oh, I don't believe in coincidences of that magnitude. I guess its possible Casey did has some degree of help in at least laying a foundation (still yet made of sand) for this story of hers she's slinging.
 
Muzikman said:
Wow, surprised to see this old chestnut, I think this may be the first thread I ever started here! :)

The registration card was released in discovery a long time ago.
Click to expand...

I think most people had seen the card by this stage in the thread, MM, lol, they were just asking for it to be linked again, and discussing the OSCO claim that video from the complex proved Casey, AL, etc had not been at Sawgrass. (We knew OCSO told Casey in the interviews that video supposedly proved she hadn't been there, and media had repeated this a lot as fact, but we'd never seen any such video come out.) Of course in the end YM admitted on the stand that there hadn't been any such video.

I came to this thread looking for a link to the Sawgrass visitor reg card again today just to look at it again because I hadn't seen it in so long, though I can picture it in my mind still lol. :) Was perusing the old discussions :) have a nice day
 
seagull65 said:
I think most people had seen the card by this stage in the thread, MM, lol, they were just asking for it to be linked again, and discussing the OSCO claim that video from the complex proved Casey, AL, etc had not been at Sawgrass. (We knew OCSO told Casey in the interviews that video supposedly proved she hadn't been there, and media had repeated this a lot as fact, but we'd never seen any such video come out.) Of course in the end YM admitted on the stand that there hadn't been any such video.

I came to this thread looking for a link to the Sawgrass visitor reg card again today just to look at it again because I hadn't seen it in so long, though I can picture it in my mind still lol. :) Was perusing the old discussions :) have a nice day
Click to expand...
Missing you Seagull!!!!!!!!!
 
KeyboardCat said:
To me, the guest card Garcia filled out pretty clearly says 06/17. I don't really understand how that six was ever confused with a four.

The names Jasmin and Michelle popped out at me as being familiar with the ZFG story she kept regurgitating to police. Where those the names of other children she'd supposedly watched?

And what about that traffic ticket that was issued to a Zenaida Gonzales around that time frame also?

Oh, I don't believe in coincidences of that magnitude. I guess its possible Casey did has some degree of help in at least laying a foundation (still yet made of sand) for this story of hers she's slinging.
Click to expand...

love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".
 
seagull65 said:
love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".
Click to expand...

I assume you know how FCA mixes truth in with her lies...this is pretty common knowledge.
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
All these things about the Sawgrass Apartments and ZFG are interesting to look over again. Maybe Zanny does exist and the reason the defense does not want to give the state their witness list is because she is on it. Or maybe KC is really this criminal mastermind with psychic powers that told her to fabricate a story about Zanny in April of 2006, and then she could totally twist the story when a real ZG showed up and filled out a registration card at the Sawgrass apartments. Using her criminal mastermind abilities she left no forensic evidence that she had ever been near the site of Caylees remains. Occasionally her criminal mastermind abilities totally fail her and she becomes just plain foolish. She steals AH’s checks and commits several counts of forgery, while being videotaped. Allegedly she placed her childs remains less than a half mile from her home, within a few feet of the woodline. She let her car run out of gas and get towed with the alleged smell of death in the trunk. She said that ZG was not ZFG and she countersued her. She lied to police then admitted she lied to police. Her criminal mastermind abilities failed her quite often. Yet, she allegedly committed a premeditated murder without leaving a clue as to how she did it (duct tape maybe, but debatable), when she did it, why (debatable) she did it, or where she did it. Then just to add to the mix, we have characters that have somehow gotten involved that are, let’s just say, interesting. To name a few, we have LP the cowboy, JW the baker actor, CA the boss, GA the suicidal spouse, LA the code whisperer, MD the blogger with lunch, CSI Bloise the bench note tosser, RC the derelict in duty dude, RK mr. inconsistency, RM the win her over chloroform kid, a couple of jailhouse snitches, Otownsfinest, and of course, JB the first Hispanic lawyer to try a high profile case of this magnitude in the state of Florida. I am sure I have missed quite a few characters that are interesting, but the list is long. I’m sure I should have mentioned AL the sometimes foulmouthed teardropper, and CM the soon to be retired. I have to totally agree with one of our posters who says

You just can’t make this stuff up.
Click to expand...

just had to bump up this great old post :)
 
seagull65 said:
love your keyboard cat! how cute! :)

Casey didn't give the names Jasmin and Michelle, but those names came out in discovery when the card was released in evidence. In Casey's statements she had said ZFG had no children, had roommates named Raquel F and Jennifer R, a sister Samantha, mother possibly Gloria, father possibly Victor, iirc. The description didn't seem to correspond to this woman ZCG except that this woman was at Sawgrass on the 17th, and the model of car Casey said the nanny had was the same (silver Ford Focus iirc), and of course Casey claimed to have dropped Caylee off to Zanny the nanny there.

Children's names given in Casey's statements iirc were Zachary H (supposedly Jeffrey M. H's son) and Annabelle (daughter of co-worker Juliette L iirc.) both of whom the "nanny" ZFG supposedly babysat at times along with Caylee. She described the nanny as 25 years old, a former event planner, former seasonal employee at Universal Studios theme park, college grad. Said she always used both surnames hypenated, Fz-Gz, and went by "Zanny".
Click to expand...

The posts you're quoting (answering) were written 18 months ago. :waitasec:

I was overcome with joy thinking Muzikman was back :banghead:
 
besides all the lingering questions about similarities between some of Casey's acquaintances/friends and the "nanny", the Sawgrass connection, (and Cast Iron, Sawgrass, Fusian, etc, the crowds overlapped a lot).... the question of why Casey would have created a story about said nanny back in 2006 and then coincidentally a woman with the same name (except Fz) really was at Sawgrass on the date Casey claimed to have last dropped Caylee off there....and now knowing since the trial that there wasn't in fact video of Sawgrass on that date, (or LE at least now said there wasn't) so supposedly there really hadn't been any video proving Casey hadn't been there or who was or wasn't there...not to mention the weird similarities between Casey's zanny story and KMTC's "other Casey",.....besides all these lingering weirdnesses, there was also a ZG who was a grad of the hospitality college at one of the universities there (hint: same college/school mentioned by Jesse G early in the case when he said the head of that school wanted to help in whatever way possible with the search, which we all puzzled over at the time....) Anyway, there was one of the ZGs in the area, (see Zan not Zen) who fit the details of Casey's statement and description much more closely than ZCG (event planner, right age, grad of local university in event planning, some of the family names, phys descrip to a tee, etc.) Whether Casey just saw this person's pictures and details on the internet or knew of her through friends or ever knew this person in any capacity or didn't and it was just coincidence, who knows. Of course the question always remained, why invent a story back in 2006 that would match up with strange coincidences on June 17 2008. Still weird even at this late date.
 
MissJames said:
The posts you're quoting (answering) were written 18 months ago. :waitasec:

I was overcome with joy thinking Muzikman was back :banghead:
Click to expand...

Yes, was just looking at this age old thread (and good thread) due to the ZCG defamation suit. My posts were just in response to some old comments which I found that had been made to my own posts and someone else's at a time when I wasn't on the thread (kind of snarky posts)... :) Then I was just revisiting the subject from the point where we stand now. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 69 more.
Total: 1,578 (members: 70, guests: 1,508)

Online statistics

Members online
70
Guests online
1,509
Total visitors
1,579
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,713
Messages
18,191,073
Members
233,505
Latest member
reneej08
Back
Top