04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

[Bernina]

I guess Jodi was just ahead of the times when she was growing pot. I wonder if Sheriff Joe will comply with orders to allow criminals to smoke pot. Or could they request brownies if AZ passed laws to allow it.


Oregon Senate passes bill to allow medical marijuana for PTSD treatment.The Senate passed a bill today that would allow people with post-traumatic stress disorder to get medical marijuana cards, but not all lawmakers were sold on the idea.

Senate Bill 281, which passed on a 19-11 vote, is now headed to the House.

Arizona: Medicinal Marijuana for terminal illnesses and chronic pain, glaucoma....but NOT any Mental Illnesses.

 

[Dmacky]

Was this is front of the jury?

Yes, Mimi was in front of the jury. They didn't ask her any questions either IIRC. It's been so long ago that I'm afraid it will not be fresh in their minds,or even remembered at this point. :banghead:

 

[Schuby]

Got any theories? For me its another example of the defense putting out bad testimony and/or witnesses just to put out something, anything.

No logical strategy seems to have gone into their defense. Crime of passion? Nope. Let's come up with an implausible tale of unsubstantiated abuse! Whoops, now we gotta find someone who can twist text messages into an abuser capable of killing someone for a dropped camera. Hey, let's get his ex-girlfriends to talk about how horrible he was...um, Lisa said she was immature and overreacting? Uh oh.

Many of their own witnesses have at least begrudgingly admitted they never saw Travis be abusive so what were they thinking?

My only explanation is that this is what happens when you have no case other than, "but, she's a girl! And he's a boy!"

 

[Schuby]

Yes, Mimi was in front of the jury. They didn't ask her any questions either IIRC. It's been so long ago that I'm afraid it will not be fresh in their minds,or even remembered at this point. :banghead:

Juan will tie all the stalker episodes together in closing.

 

[Alexander family fan]

Juan laughed aloud and said it looks like a dog to me, regarding their most recent attempt. Remain calm friends. In his career, he has come up against people far more clever than the pair he has in front of him. This was all expected by him. He is five steps ahead of them. Every question he asked of their experts, without exception, was because he KNOWS what the defense team is up to. He took them to school.

In the words of you wonderful Websleuth folks, "Juan's got this!"

 

[YESorNO]

So in my best JM voice "where they BOTH keynote speakers" YES or NO?[/QUOTE]

BBM


Are you asking me? SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE- both of them :floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[BritsKate]

I walked away and checked for Swan and peafowl eggs, checked the calibration of the incubator, pulled out chicks, watched the wolfdogs chase a Rock squirrel, identified a crazy water bird in the pond (Pelagic Cormorant, like 400 miles away from where it should be:facepalm checked the horse water..........come back and nothing's changed, sigh......:banghead:
I'm am completely addicted to this insanity, I'm ready for the men with white jackets.......:crazy:

They actually have really cute pink ones available now too. Not that I would know from personal experience or anything.

 

[Tipstaff]

I have NO professional opinion on this, but it strikes me that they could in fact put JA back on the stand to "fix" her lies if they are permitted to offer a surrebuttal. The purpose of surrebuttal would be to contest new information offered during rebuttal. If we consider it from that point of view, she could conceivably be back to "explain" said new information.

Oh please let's just get 48 Hours into the Jail, give JA some make-up and 8 hours of air time and save the state of AZ millions of $$$$.

She could make her case, explain her 'stories' and edify anybody she wants.

Please don't put her on the stand again. Three more migraines and 3 more months of a trial if this happens. Just put her on TV - she tells a good story. Gee even pay-per-view might go for this if she brings in the ratings. lease:

 

[spcagrl]

Makes me want to be all...screamy, and yelly..n shouty...

Warm wishes to the Alexander family.
We stand united.

Hey, did you see her on HLN this afternoon? she says she would like to make another one of jA!!!! And by the way.....it's SUPER SHOUTY! I love the part where the "mean old men are shouting at me and grilling at me" too!

 

[kaRN]

Thank you. I need to focus on voices of reason, such as yours :seeya:

Aww thanks!
This new twist is akin to the DT giving their palliative defendant a dose of radiation. Death is still inevitable but hope lives on. :twocents:

 

[Dr. Nick]

Robert Geffner, Ph.D. ABPP, ABPN
Founding President
Robert Geffner, Ph.D., is: Founding President of the Family Violence and Sexual Assault Institute in San Diego, CA; Founding President of Alliant International University’s (AIU) Institute on Violence, Abuse and Trauma (IVAT); Clinical Research Professor of Psychology at the California School of Professional Psychology, AIU, San Diego; Licensed Psychologist and Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist in California and Texas; Editor of three internationally disseminated journals and Co-Editor of one; and former clinical director of a large private practice mental health clinic in East Texas for over 15 years. He has a Diplomate in Clinical Neuropsychology and one in Family Psychology. He served as an adjunct faculty member for the National Judicial College for 10 years, and was a former Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Tyler for 16 years. Dr. Geffner is the President of the Trauma Psychology Division of the American Psychological Association. He has been a researcher, trainer, practitioner, and consultant for more than 30 years.
... He has presented over 450 keynote addresses, plenaries, workshops, and seminars at international, national, regional, and state conferences or meetings.

http://www.fvsai.org/aboutus.htm

Hahaha, JM is going to have a field day with this one.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

These poor jurors have developed a weirdo form of Stockholm Syndrome and they've attached themselves to Juan if for no other reason than when he gets up, he busts a groove and sits back down. Breath of frickin' fresh air.

They know last ditch efforts to save a dark soul when they see them and they'll wonder why, if this new guy is so expert, didn't they call him in the first danged place.

The DT thinks they have a way to save her now. Nope, they're 3 months late and close to $2M short.

The jury will reject whatever psychobabble is coming and they're going to lower the boom on Miss Jodi Arias.

It's either that or I start screaming like a banshee.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Arizona: Medicinal Marijuana for terminal illnesses and chronic pain, glaucoma....but NOT any Mental Illnesses.

I know, but I was saying if AZ did pass a law of pot for ptsd would Sheriff Joe give it to her.

 

[Sleuth5]

I know, but I was saying if AZ did pass a law of pot for ptsd would Sheriff Joe have to give it to her.

Sure, but he'd probably grind it up into the bologna first.

 

[BritsKate]

repost
miss-spoke??
Alyce changing her testimony from yesterday again? now the knife was not on nightstand as she said Jodi told her– seriously? why is it her notes have no clarity today but had clarity when she testified to Martinez?

The only really bad things about Travis Alexander that we have learned, are things that JA and her defense team have told us.

Too true but some people inherently believe if a woman commits a violent crime then they must have been abused, mentally ill, or somehow victimized to cause her to act in such a fashion.

Despite actual statistics telling a much different story of women who kill. Especially psychopathic women.

 

[gcharlie]

I agree. I don't think the DT would want to bring up the taking of the ring again since I don't think they can really prove otherwise conclusively and further discussing it would probably do more harm than good. Furthermore, they had to have known about the ring since they had access to all the same information Dr.JD had, so I'm not sure if it qualifies as new evidence for the purposes of surrebuttal and furthermore I'm not sure they can show that the ring issue is central to their case which I believe was notes as a requirement by one of the attorney's on the thread. MOO, of course

JDM brought up quite a bit of stuff on the stand, including some info that caught JW by surprise. JW did not know about the 10 restaurant jobs and thought she had caught JDM in a mistake, but JDM found it quickly in her notes. Likewise, JW did not know about the care taker position from Oct/Nov 07 to January 08.

Just because discovery rules provide the DT with all of the information doesn't mean that they read it in depth or understand the implications of certain details. The DT had the magazines with the secret messages coded in them and were definitely caught off guard on that one. Same thing with the bank statement showing the gas purchases in SLC. Gotta say that I did get pleasure seeing the looks on their faces when they examined those docs in court.

 

[Alexander family fan]

I don't get why the defense would even dispute BPD anyway. It's a gift in a way. Borderline's a lot more treatable than other PDs, they experience emotion on a much further ranging scale than some other PDs, and they're not typically known to be overtly violent towards others. Undoubtedly, many even often have a childhood history of abuse that may have led to the disorder itself.

Seems totally spinnable to me...unlike psychopathy, my dx.

Every time they call a witness to the stand , it backfires on them. Every approach they take makes a bigger mess. Their approach with their two experts, the damage they did.....would be tough to measure. Your example is spot on. If one did not know better they would think they were inexperienced, but that is not the case. You just can't make this stuff up!! It seems like a SNL spoof, it gets so bad. Jennifer was almost having a public breakdown with Ms. De Marte, she seemed like a nervous kid forced to be on the debate team in junior high. We know Nurmi watches HLN, so they are well aware they have a disaster on their hands. I don't blame them for trying to beg for a do over. The jury sent a message to the Alexander family the day they , or whoever on there, asked the questions

Is the defendant on any medication for this HORRIBLE PTSD?
Are you sure she couldn't have gotten this trauma from a bad haircut?

:seeya: The message, we are not believing these lies. Hang in there kids. We are NOT buying this. Hang in there. Justice is coming.:rocker:

MOO

 

[YESorNO]

Remain calm friends. It was certain they would ask for a surrebuttal, even if just to lay a record for appeal. After their two witnesses were so thoroughly discredited, it would be nearly malpractice not to try to ask for it.

THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION

The judge will allow them a very limited surrebuttal. I don't think Judge Perry would have, but I think this one may. No worries. Juan has got this. I have grown more confidence in her as I have watched her shoot down each and every thing the defense has tried to bring as motions for mistrial. So, I do not want to imply that I think she is weak, just different than JP.

The great thing, imo, is that even though this is a dp case, the judge can find that since JM DID, unlike the defense, follow the rules of discovery, they have known all along what Dr. DeMarte was going to testify to. She prepared a written report that was given to them that held all of her opinions and what she based them on, including the fact that she diagnosed Jodi with the disorder she testified to. They have known that she was going to dispute their experts, the pair of them, and she disagreed with their findings. They had ample opportunity to depose her. Jennifer questioned her in trial , remember when we deposed you, and you gave us your CV? I thought that it was in that depo where she realized her experts were going to be no match for the very educated and articulate Dr. DeMarte. That would have been the time to seek additional help from a third expert. This is going to be what JM refers to as Johnny come lately defense, that they want a do over. This would have been the time to file a motion and say they do not believe she is qualified as an expert in this field. NOT AFTER SHE TESTIFIES.

I recall this came up with nearly every expert in the Casey Anthony trial and boy oh boy did we learn a lot about discovery rules and why it is so important for the experts to set out in detail their findings, so there will be no gotcha moments. Indeed they had many pretrial hearings , in which the judge did rule that some of the folks the defense were trying to present, would not be testifying as experts, as to certain areas that they were not qualified in. JW is an experienced lawyer, she TEACHES, so she knows how to do this in advance of trial. Numi....well , he sleeps.

In this case, ALV filed NO REPORT.
I saw in the court case file that JM had to file a motion to ask the judge to have the defense adhere to the AZ discovery rules, as they gave him only her very REDACTED notes. The judge did so order, and JM wound up with her notes which he used at trial to impeach her. If anything SHE deviated from her own notes and changed things she had written down on MAJOR facts such as
Jodi said she shot Travis in the closet
Jodi told her she caught Travis watching the kiddy on the computer


Those are major facts, and ALV literally turned her notes upside down , fell on her sword and claimed , IN REDIRECT, that she must have just assumed that is what Jodi meant. Remember her , "I guess I just assumed she meant computer, not that the photos were on the bed, because kids these days do everything on the computer." You just can't make this stuff up!!

Dr. Samuels filed a report with conflicting findings on his own tests.

Dr. DeMarte filed a report and testified to it, without changing her opinion. As far as them arguing that she is not experienced enough to have opined on the matter, that should have been handled before trial. Indeed she has been deemed an expert before by the court there, so that argument will fail, in my opinion.

The judge will be on firm ground to deny the defense request. Even if she does allow a new expert, they will be limited to the small area the defense claims she deviated from on her report.
Don't worry, Juan Martinez was expecting this and with his twenty five years he has seen it all. He will make short order of this.

The lesser charge they are asking the judge to add, also seemed obvious that they would ask for that too, by all that they were trying to build up to with all the abuse. Otherwise there was no need to even bring up all the alleged incidents, etc. if it were just a straight he jumped at me, body slammed me, I had to defend myself against the physical threat.....self defense. It was obvious they were trying to build up for the jury her state of mind was that of someone with battered woman syndrome, and that she saw Travis through that skewed lens, thus explaining the extreme overkill. Nurmi used those words "battered woman syndrome" early on with ALV during one of the objections. I remember thinking, oh...here we go.

I have been thinking about how Judge Perry decided the defense had put forth NO EVIDENCE , whatsoever, to be entitled to argue in closing arguments ONE WORD about sexual abuse by pop or brother. That is how it seems to me here, the defense has failed miserably to prove battered woman's syndrome and outside of Jodi's self serving word, we have had NO evidence of physical abuse. I wouldn't be mad at JM if he asked for them not to be able to argue those points at all. That wont happen, but I do not think it matters. I think the jury will see any new witness as a day late and a dollar short, the clean up man, as it were. They'll yawn, ask snarky questions, pick their nails and be overtly unimpressed, just as they were with the first two clowns. It appeared to me that Jennifer was NOT consulting with Samuels and ALV about how to cross examine Dr. DeMarte, but rather another source altogether. Indeed she brought the manual after she realized she had been wholly misinformed by whoever told her that the person who wrote the book on domestic violence no longer uses her own criteria. She literally wanted to read the definitions to Dr. De Marte out of the manual. That is when I knew that Jennifer knew , for sure, the other two experts harmed, rather than hurt her case, by biblical proportions.

I don't think it will be any surprise to the jury that this is what gets argued in closing arguments, they have been hearing it for months. I have good faith that it wont matter what array of choices they have on the form, the state has proved premeditation, and murder one. All day long!!!

IF they do not raise issues now, the next appeal lawyers will NOT be permitted to ask for the appeal court to cure any errors the judge made in the trial. So, it is expected that they ask for many a mistrial issue, and to ask for surrebuttal and to ask to add the witness after the disaster of their two. To not ask would border on malpractice.

Judging by the jury questions, they seem to be ready to take this to verdict some time ago. I have faith in them. Even if the judge allowed two more experts for the defense, nothing they can opine will take away from the Medical Examiner and how he is going to make the sky blue again in rebuttal. Those facts and those photos!!!

I heard that JM has a ninety eight percent conviction rate. My money is on him and the ME!! :rocker::rocker::rocker: MOO

Just one word: THANK-YOU :seeya:

 

[tss]

he connects to ALV


Robert Geffner, Editor | ZoomInfo.com
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Find business contact information for Robert Geffner, Editor and see work ... "Batterers' Intervention: A View From the Trenches" by Alyce LaViolette ... Editor, Robert A. Geffner, PhD, Institute on Violence, Abuse, & Trauma, San Diego, CA ..

FAMILYCOURTREFORM : Message: Upcoming Custody Evaluation Workshop ...
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Mar 2, 2011 – Robert Geffner, Ph.D. Geraldine Butts Stahly, Ph.D. Alice LaViolette, M.S. and. Other Invited Speakers Robert Geffner, Ph.D., ABPN is the President and Founder

www.facebook.com/Justice4Travis?filter=2
FYI - Go to AL webpage the surrebuttal witness Robert Geffner, Ph.D the ... He is a colleague of Alyce LaViolette and will rebut Dr DeMarte's claims of BPD

 

[Southern_Meadow]

I'll try. :seeya:
A sur-rebuttal can only focus on evidence brought in on rebuttal. They can't start a new CIC. They plan on bringing on another witness to dispell Dr.D's testimony meaning they're scared. At this point does it really matter what they say? I don't believe so. Unlike Cardiology or Physics, there are no constants in Psychological Science. It's all open to subjective interpretation. There are no scans, lab tests etc to quantify the science, just journals and text messages and of course JA. The jury knows she's sick and don't need a battle of the experts to diagnose it. I don't think they really care or empathize with her anyway.
The crime scene photos don't tell the story of self defense for JA nor do they suggest crime of passion. The guy was taking a shower and some jurors might believe that she invaded his personal space even being there. Lastly no matter how many head shrinks testify, it's not reasonable for anyone including a battered woman to stab to death, then stab another 29+ times, then slit the throat and shoot over the passion of a dropped camera.

If the jury sounds angry now, just wait a few more weeks IMO.:hug:

Well said and I agree.

If they're granted a surrebuttal, I don't think it will be a long, drawn out thing. If I understand correctly, this new doctor can only testify about the BPD and nothing else because I guess technically the BPD was something new. However, Samuels mentioned something along that line, or at least I thought he did.... it's been so long since he was on the stand and my brain has unprocessed most everything he said. JSS may deny it for that reason.

Having said all that, I still think it's ridiculous and another pile of BS from the DT.