10/28/11 Private Investigator Returns, Baby Lisas Family Leaves

[Melanie]

Serious question from a foreigner here but a lot of post's above talk about the police trying to get a false confession and basically trying to "wrap the case".

Is this really how the police/FBI work in the US even in 2011?

I simply can't believe that LE want to get the bradwins in for questioning just so they can force a confession. I mean, is the US government that corrupt?

Maybe I'm just naive how US LE operates?

For the most part, I don't believe so....but it does happen. I just posted about a case in San Diego that I followed closely:

police illegally coerced false confessions from Michael Crowe, Stephanie’s older brother, and his friends Aaron Houser and Joshua Treadway.

13 years later Michael Crowe is still waiting for his day in court (10/31/11).

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_3d253ec5-f68a-589d-b8a6-42c56dd82cae.html

So, yes, it happens...and it's not pretty.

MOO

Mel

 

[1&2&3]

After the experience or nightmare of LE being so tough in attitude to DB & JI, I do understand them not wanting to go to the police station to answer questions. Can LE meet them at their lawyer's office instead of the police station? It takes the intimidation that LE wants away, but they do get those questions answered. Which is more important, answers or intimidation?? Since LE apparently does not have enough to charge someone, at this point it is a stand off!!

I am just going on the facts at hand!! That is what we have to work with.

 

[mysteriew]

Serious question from a foreigner here but a lot of post's above talk about the police trying to get a false confession and basically trying to "wrap the case".

Is this really how the police/FBI work in the US even in 2011?

I simply can't believe that LE want to get the bradwins in for questioning just so they can force a confession. I mean, is the US government that corrupt?

Maybe I'm just naive how US LE operates?

Has it ever happened? Yes. I think a lot of times it has to do with LE having a theory or gut feeling about that someone is guilty, then trying to make it fit. The prosecution has been known to do it too. But for the most part they will follow the evidence.

But no that is not the normal or usual. Yes, they will apply pressure. Yes they might even lie to someone in interrogation. Because most people won't admit crimes they may have committed unless they are under pressure. But 99.9% of the time they follow the evidence. And persons who lie in an interview provide part of that evidence. For instance saying they went to bed at 10:30 pm and stayed in bed till 4, when evidence showed telephone activity at 2:30 am would raise their hackles.

In those cases where LE or the prosecution has been caught manufacturing evidence or the prosecution has hidden evidence that indicates someone else committed the crime it is something that they will pay for. There is a huge scandal and people get fired over it. Sometimes criminally prosecuted.

It is often a defense tactic to say LE was under pressure to solve a crime. But that is pretty laughable. If you look at the Doe Network website, the Missing Children website and the unsolved cases in this country you can see that a lot of crimes go unsolved. It happens every day. Soon it would drop out of the news and nothing would be heard of it except in anniversary articles or if new evidence were to surface.

With the parents refusing to talk to LE, if they did not commit the crime it is more likely that the case will go unsolved. Oftentimes it is one little question or item of evidence that will solve a crime. With the parents not being available to answer questions and offer explanations and provide memories of events of things that happened before and the night of the crime, the LE loses one avenue of exploration. Also even if they come up with another suspect they may not be able to make an arrest. Because the parents haven't been cleared, that would give the other person a reasonable doubt in any trial.

 

[Quiche]

Serious question from a foreigner here but a lot of post's above talk about the police trying to get a false confession and basically trying to "wrap the case".

Is this really how the police/FBI work in the US even in 2011?

I simply can't believe that LE want to get the bradwins in for questioning just so they can force a confession. I mean, is the US government that corrupt?

Maybe I'm just naive how US LE operates?

I think it has a lot to do with the cooperation LE was getting from the parents, DB and JI were stonewalling, and still are. LE knew what they were up against right away. I'm not disappointed in LE in the least, they've conducted their business, haven't dropped a bunch of media bombs. Shoot, I'm waiting on an LE presser.

I do worry about this level of cooperation from parents, however, I find their behavior appalling. MOO

 

[scmom]

What questions can LE ask that DB and JI would answer willingly at this point that would help them find Lisa? Should LE just go ahead and send them a list of questions, and they can pick and choose the ones they want to answer? While I'm sure that would be to satisfaction of the parents, I don't understand how it will move the search for Lisa forward. Of course, I guess LE is damned if they do and damned if they don't either. One the one hand they shouldn't be hard on the poor parents and on the other they can't get answers only the parents can give. I guess LE should just give up. Sounds like a perfect solution, eh?

 

[vlpate]

When the parents (and the boys) were intially interviewed, the shifting timeline and many of the conflicting details were not known to the public. I don't know if these inconsistencies were known to LE at that time, but my best guess is that at least some pertinent information came out afterwards. I am basing that on the subsequent public statements of the parents. No wonder LE wants to reinterview the principle witnesses. If the parents are innocent, there is a chance that this baby is alive, and every day that the parents refuse the interviews that could clear them and refocus the resources of this investigation lessens the chance that the baby will ever be found. LE has stated that they are not demanding interviews without the presence of attorneys so the only conclusion I can draw is that the parents are motivated by self interest and not the desire to find their child. All MOO.

I heard or saw this as well. Short is the one who said they were demanding interviews without their attorney present.

It's the same old tactics, different missing baby/child. Once the family lawyers up, they complain about the cops not being fair in the interviews, they complain LE is not keeping them informed, they complain LE is not doing their job by looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, a baby is either being held by a stranger, or is dead and rotting away, along with the evidence.

Defense attorney's dream, no evidence, no cause of death. Stall, stall, stall.

IMO, of course.

 

[vlpate]

After the experience or nightmare of LE being so tough in attitude to DB & JI, I do understand them not wanting to go to the police station to answer questions. Can LE meet them at their lawyer's office instead of the police station? It takes the intimidation that LE wants away, but they do get those questions answered. Which is more important, answers or intimidation?? Since LE apparently does not have enough to charge someone, at this point it is a stand off!!

I am just going on the facts at hand!! That is what we have to work with.

They need to just answer the frigging questions - if their lawyer is present, they don't have to worry about a forced confession and what is the BIG DEAL if she gets her feelies hurt???? WHO cares? They're trying to find LISA, not trying to do what's best for the fragile Deborah.

Just astounds me - seriously - enough - she should have spent the weekend camped out at the police station with her high-powered attorney answering questions that might help find Lisa. When is Jeremy going to have enough and make her?

Infuriating to see this happen to another baby.

 

[AngelWings444]

SBM There may be a misunderstanding about "interview" and "answering questions". From what ALL of the family spokespeople have indicated (and I think somewhat confirmed by LE) the family has been talking to LE, and has been answering questions.

An interview is a specific thing. It involves placing the person into a room, and removing them from their comfort zone, from their access to the outside world and putting them at the mercy of whoever is asking the questions, no matter how offensive or horrifying the questions are.

I would not do an interview either. They did one, and they saw how that turned out (accusations of murder, etc). If they were my relatives I would have told them to never set foot in the interview room, and to get a lawyer pronto. And their lawyer would have agreed with me 100%.

Let me tell you something that any good defense atty will tell you. There is absolutely nothing good that can come (for the interviewee)from an interview. Nothing.

DB says it went down this way, who is to know what really happened in the interview? The way I see it, if you can't believe LE, you certainly can't rely on DB's words.

 

[justamommy]

I heard or saw this as well. Short is the one who said they were demanding interviews without their attorney present.

It's the same old tactics, different missing baby/child. Once the family lawyers up, they complain about the cops not being fair in the interviews, they complain LE is not keeping them informed, they complain LE is not doing their job by looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, a baby is either being held by a stranger, or is dead and rotting away, along with the evidence.

Defense attorney's dream, no evidence, no cause of death. Stall, stall, stall.

IMO, of course.

Do you have a link? Very curious about this, have been for days. TIA

 

[vlpate]

SBM There may be a misunderstanding about "interview" and "answering questions". From what ALL of the family spokespeople have indicated (and I think somewhat confirmed by LE) the family has been talking to LE, and has been answering questions.

An interview is a specific thing. It involves placing the person into a room, and removing them from their comfort zone, from their access to the outside world and putting them at the mercy of whoever is asking the questions, no matter how offensive or horrifying the questions are.

I would not do an interview either. They did one, and they saw how that turned out (accusations of murder, etc). If they were my relatives I would have told them to never set foot in the interview room, and to get a lawyer pronto. And their lawyer would have agreed with me 100%.

Let me tell you something that any good defense atty will tell you. There is absolutely nothing good that can come (for the interviewee)from an interview. Nothing.

BEM: You are absolutely correct - when a person has done something criminal. Name for me one parent sitting in jail because they were falsely accused of killing their child - all parents of abducted children undergo the same questions and LE tactics. They want to find their child -- they suck it up and live through it.

 

[vlpate]

Do you have a link? Very curious about this, have been for days. TIA

A link for what? Do you have access to google? It might take less time to google whatever it is you are wondering about.

Let me know what part of my post you are referring to. Thanks.

 

[SuziQ]

BEM: You are absolutely correct - when a person has done something criminal. Name for me one parent sitting in jail because they were falsely accused of killing their child - all parents of abducted children undergo the same questions and LE tactics. They want to find their child -- they suck it up and live through it.

You can do a google search for Wrongfully convicted parents and come up with alot of cases.

 

[vlpate]

I really don't care about what I think I would do in her place...I would hope that I would do the right thing...which is answer each and every question LE has truthfully...and if I didn't I would deserve the scorn of the Nation. Here's how you balance out the issue..which child might be in pain, suffering, cold, hungry and being abused...that is the child that needs you the most as they are in crisis. Take your attorney and get your butt in the chair and truthfully answer the questions...even if it's for the umpteenth time and even if they are adversarial. The truth is the truth is the truth...TELL IT!

Exactly. BS should have driven her to the KSPD station, seems all they've done is schlepped around for the past month. I just can't imagine the state I would have been in if someone had taken my baby. I know women who lost their babies, and I truly believe they'd give anything, do anything, to have them back - anything. IMO, DB is acting like someone who believes her baby is dead - not someone who thinks there might be hope that she is alive.

 

[SuziQ]

10 Parents Wrongfully Convicted of Killing Their Children
http://brainz.org/10-parents-wrongfully-convicted-killing-their-children/

(snip)
Julie Rea Harper woke one night in 1997 to the sound of her son screaming, ran to his room, struggled with a masked intruder and then found that her ten-year-old son had been stabbed to death. As there was no sign of forced entry to her home,
in the small town of Lawrenceville, IL, she was tried in 2000 and sentenced to 65 years in prison for the murder of her own child. Four years later she was released on technical grounds, only to be arrested and tried for the murder again. This time, however, her defense was armed with the confession of serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells, whom Harper had been rude to in a grocery store on the same day her son was slain. In 2006, she was finally acquitted of her son's murder.

 

[grandmaj]

SBM There may be a misunderstanding about "interview" and "answering questions". From what ALL of the family spokespeople have indicated (and I think somewhat confirmed by LE) the family has been talking to LE, and has been answering questions.

An interview is a specific thing. It involves placing the person into a room, and removing them from their comfort zone, from their access to the outside world and putting them at the mercy of whoever is asking the questions, no matter how offensive or horrifying the questions are.

I would not do an interview either. They did one, and they saw how that turned out (accusations of murder, etc). If they were my relatives I would have told them to never set foot in the interview room, and to get a lawyer pronto. And their lawyer would have agreed with me 100%.

Let me tell you something that any good defense atty will tell you. There is absolutely nothing good that can come (for the interviewee)from an interview. Nothing.

BBM LE stated that they want to interview them separately to determine who was in and out of that house the day Lisa went missing. How is that accusing them of anything? I would do it in a heartbeat.

And the one GOOD thing that might come out of it is that Lisa is found. Three weeks ago she may have been alive and in the area.

"We need them to sit down apart from each other, with detectives, and answer the tough questions detectives have for them concerning what they may or may not know about anything, who came and went [the night Lisa disappeared]," Young told ABCNews.com. "There's a whole list of things that they may know."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-police-tough-questions-parents/story?id=14810300

 

[SuziQ]

Serious question from a foreigner here but a lot of post's above talk about the police trying to get a false confession and basically trying to "wrap the case".

Is this really how the police/FBI work in the US even in 2011?

I simply can't believe that LE want to get the bradwins in for questioning just so they can force a confession. I mean, is the US government that corrupt?

Maybe I'm just naive how US LE operates?

It's not just the US. It's a problem everywhere.

 

[grandmaj]

Serious question from a foreigner here but a lot of post's above talk about the police trying to get a false confession and basically trying to "wrap the case".

Is this really how the police/FBI work in the US even in 2011?

I simply can't believe that LE want to get the bradwins in for questioning just so they can force a confession. I mean, is the US government that corrupt?

Maybe I'm just naive how US LE operates?

Not on my life do I believe that any LE intentionally wants a false confession. The FBI is on this case and they are not looking for false confessions either. I believe in our system of Justice, I believe that "the majority" of Law Enforcement Officers who put their lives on the line every single day to protect and serve are not corrupt and do not force false confessions.

When you have a family that has changed their story numerous times, when they stopped talking and when they refuse to assist in giving vital information of course they will be viewed as more suspect. But all leads are being followed in this case. And it keeps coming back to not getting straight answers and a baby who is missing and the family is protecting their own butts instead of answering questions.

I can't fathom playing legal games when the life of my 11 month old baby is on the line.

 

[Karmaa]

BEM: You are absolutely correct - when a person has done something criminal. Name for me one parent sitting in jail because they were falsely accused of killing their child - all parents of abducted children undergo the same questions and LE tactics. They want to find their child -- they suck it up and live through it.

BBM... Well, if they can prove they were falsely accused, they are out of jail. But let's just say: Kevin Fox. He thought that if he just told the truth, people would know he was innocent. But it doesn't work that way. If you want to know what CAN happen to an innocent person who thinks that the truth will set them free, google his story. It'll open your eyes, for sure.

 

[jjenny]

Well, if they can prove they were falsely accused, they are out of jail. But let's just say: Kevin Fox. He thought that if he just told the truth, people would know he was innocent. But it doesn't work that way. If you want to know what CAN happen to an innocent person who thinks that the truth will set them free, google his story. It'll open your eyes, for sure.

Yes, innocent people can get convicted. Just as some guilty people can go free. It's not a perfect system. But since these two (JI and DB) claim their child was kidnapped, for all they know she is still alive. I'd think in such a case a parent would do everything they can to cooperate with police. Take a look at someone like Ed Smart. I don't recall him refusing for LE to re-interview his 9 year old.

 

[Karmaa]

BBM LE stated that they want to interview them separately to determine who was in and out of that house the day Lisa went missing. How is that accusing them of anything? I would do it in a heartbeat.

And the one GOOD thing that might come out of it is that Lisa is found. Three weeks ago she may have been alive and in the area.

"We need them to sit down apart from each other, with detectives, and answer the tough questions detectives have for them concerning what they may or may not know about anything, who came and went [the night Lisa disappeared]," Young told ABCNews.com. "There's a whole list of things that they may know."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-police-tough-questions-parents/story?id=14810300

If LE wanted information that would help find Baby Lisa, they would not need to drag the parents off to separate interview rooms to do it. There is only one reason to do that, and it is to try and "break" the parents. Even LE agrees that the parents have been willing to talk to them, just not under the conditions LE wants.