11/29/2011 Final prayer vigil for Lisa Irwin

[In da Middle]

Do we even know if it was requested to be the absolute last vigil or just the last vigil at the house? It seems like if they didn't want any more vigils they wouldn't even allow this one in their yard, but they are. They didn't ask for them to stop as soon as they moved back either.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

The nicest thing I can think of to say about the announcement that DB has requested that today's prayer vigil to be the last one is that it is certainly not surprising to me. It falls right in line with her underwhelming contributions in all other areas, especially her refusal to sit down with LE for another individual interview. There seems to be a pattern emerging here of doing little and saying even less.

It all just leaves me feeling they haven't done enough to help find Baby Lisa and even thwarted several avenues of hope. So why not this last one then, too?

Exactly.:goodpost:

 

[justamommy]

And?

Respectfully why should it matter if 90% of the general population believe DB/JI are somehow complicit in Lisa's disappearance as long as them speaking to the media aids in keeping their daughter's name in the news? The potential benefit far outweighs the adverse opinions.JMHO

Unless those adverse opinions affect your sanity and ability to cope. Unless those adverse opinions start to affect your other children. I wouldn't talk, but I would trust in God. I would pray daily continuously. We will have to agree to disagree. We are both entitled to our opinions. Back on topic.:twocents:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...If I could afford to send my boys to Catholic School or a private Christian Academy, I would too. It's a better education, period.

I was responding to a post in which someone asked about whether or not Deborah and/or Jeremy were "religious".

As to whether or not a Catholic education is preferable, I don't agree. DH and I sent our daughter to a highly-regarded parochial school and were ready to get her out of there after first grade. We gave it another year and wished that we'd followed our initial instincts. Just because the school is in a high-income community didn't make up for large classes, inferior teachers, antiquated textbooks and other instructional materials, not to mention the constant requests for money above and beyond tuition and book fees. jmo

 

[Cazzie]

JMO, but Edith (bless her heart) has done far more to honor Baby Lisa that either of her parents.

Lisa's parents have been hiding from media (except perceived paid appearances, a la Halloween, etc.) and LE since Week 1.

Bless you, Edith. :heart:

I think it would be wonderful for everyone who cares about Lisa to hold/attend vigils wherever else than the home where Lisa lived. Vigils are not necessarily religious...they are a way for people to come together and show caring, offer support to each other, and get media attention for a missing baby (or person). Which most families of a MP would love to have. But apparently not the Bradwins.

 

[indepmo]

Bless you, Edith. :heart:

I think it would be wonderful for everyone who cares about Lisa to hold/attend vigils wherever else than the home where Lisa lived. Vigils are not necessarily religious...they are a way for people to come together and show caring, offer support to each other, and get media attention for a missing baby (or person). Which most families of a MP would love to have. But apparently not the Bradwins.

Edith has received suggestions to hold these vigils at another location and I'm certain she will. There is nothing legally stopping these vigils at the Irwins residence, but she is respecting the wishes of the family. If Edith holds no other vigils for Lisa, you can be certain this won't be the last time we see or hear from her whether it's in regards to Lisa, or another case (which I hope we don't ever see here in the area again).

 

[Emeralgem]

I see cityslick. Same scenario as Short's recounting her direct conversation with Debbi. Picerno is recounting his recent direct conversation with Jeremy. Unless Picerno is lying about his conversation with his client, the sentiments came from Jeremy Irwin.

He (Picerno) added that he spoke with Irwin Friday morning and that Irwin said "everyday has gotten better." He said Irwin plans to return to his job as an electrician next week and they are working to get "back 100 percent to their normal life."
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/...ndyman_Paid_300_For_Kidnapping_134172858.html

:ufo: Just beam me up Scotty....I cannot fathom anyone thinking "everyday has gotten better" especially when their child hasn't even been missing for two months and they are claiming to the world she is missing and someone has kidnapped her...IMHO..This father is fully aware of what has happened to his child or he is a helpless co- dependent enabler and needs serious counseling......JMHO..

 

[Cazzie]

Edith has received suggestions to hold these vigils at another location and I'm certain she will. There is nothing legally stopping these vigils at the Irwins residence, but she is respecting the wishes of the family. If Edith holds no other vigils for Lisa, you can be certain this won't be the last time we see or hear from her whether it's in regards to Lisa, or another case (which I hope we don't ever see here in the area again).

It wouldn't be illegal to hold vigils on JI's property w/o his permission? I doubt that, but unfamiliar with KC/MO law. Or did you mean "out in front of Irwin's residence", like in the street.

It sounds like Edith's heart is in the right place. Wish I felt that about JI and DB.

 

[Karmaa]

I agree. I think the justice system needs serious change. There's way too much coddling of the guilty, and too little done for victims. Casey Anthony is guilty, yet she was found not guilty, and I blame the justice system.

Well, if Jeremy and Debbie are not guilty, then they are victims. What else can we be doing for them? <modsnip>

Whether anyone likes it or not, they ARE innocent at this point. They have not been charged with anything, and certainly not convicted. They are innocent, therefore they are victims.

Not until and unless they are convicted are they guilty. <modsnip>

 

[In da Middle]

It wouldn't be illegal to hold vigils on JI's property w/o his permission? I doubt that, but unfamiliar with KC/MO law. Or did you mean "out in front of Irwin's residence", like in the street.

It sounds like Edith's heart is in the right place. Wish I felt that about JI and DB.

Yes, it would be illegal to hold them on their property without permission. It's called trespassing. And no, you can't legally hold them in the street either without a city permit as it blocks traffic that people have paid taxes to be able to use. Most people around here hold them in a public place like a park. There are many parks in the very close area. Much better parking and it's a public spot so nobody can be denied access (unless a particular person has previously been told to not be on that property). I know of no other vigils taking place at a private residence around here for anybody.

 

[curvecuti]

I was responding to a post in which someone asked about whether or not Deborah and/or Jeremy were "religious".

As to whether or not a Catholic education is preferable, I don't agree. DH and I sent our daughter to a highly-regarded parochial school and were ready to get her out of there after first grade. We gave it another year and wished that we'd followed our initial instincts. Just because the school is in a high-income community didn't make up for large classes, inferior teachers, antiquated textbooks and other instructional materials, not to mention the constant requests for money above and beyond tuition and book fees. jmo

Same experience I had. We took her out after Kindergarten. She is now in 3rd grade in a public school and the difference is amazing.

 

[Cazzie]

I always thought the "Catholic education" thing by DB via CS was a "damage control" and "image re-invention" ploy...JMO.

Seriously, a mother/caretaker of 3 (including a baby, whom purportedly had a cold and cough), admittedly drinks alcohol to the point of "maybe" blacking out, and baby disappears that nite...but one of her goals is that her kids get a Catholic education? Where in the past did she work toward that goal?

Unless perhaps, she knows she's not a fit mother and was just trying to share what her hopes were for when someone else would get custody of them.

When it comes to analyzing DB/JI's words and behavior, and their statement inconsistencies...it's much like DB herself said on Day 1 in regard to Lisa being missing "nothing makes sense".

 

[indepmo]

It wouldn't be illegal to hold vigils on JI's property w/o his permission? I doubt that, but unfamiliar with KC/MO law. Or did you mean "out in front of Irwin's residence", like in the street.

It sounds like Edith's heart is in the right place. Wish I felt that about JI and DB.

While I'm not promoting this, I can tell you that a "public easement" extends from the roadway into the front yard. Obstructing the driveway would be another story.

Once again, while not promoting this,
google "Caylee Anthony" "public easement" together.

In the past, I personally had to deal with a roadside memorial and vigils there for several days.

Also in the past I had to deal with a vehicle parked half way on the road and half way in my yard.

Easements are tricky things.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I always thought the "Catholic education" thing by DB via CS was a "damage control" and "image re-invention" ploy...JMO.

Seriously, a mother/caretaker of 3 (including a baby, whom purportedly had a cold and cough), admittedly drinks alcohol to the point of "maybe" blacking out, and baby disappears that nite...but one of her goals is that her kids get a Catholic education? Where in the past did she work toward that goal?

Unless perhaps, she knows she's not a fit mother and was just trying to share what her hopes were for when someone else would get custody of them.

When it comes to analyzing DB/JI's words and behavior, and their statement inconsistencies...it's much like DB herself said on Day 1 in regard to Lisa being missing "nothing makes sense".

ITA. DB was aware of what was being said about her in the media and wanted to try and clean up her "drunken" image. jmo

 

[In da Middle]

While I'm not promoting this, I can tell you that a "public easement" extends from the roadway into the front yard. Obstructing the driveway would be another story.

Once again, while not promoting this,
google "Caylee Anthony" "public easement" together.

In the past, I personally had to deal with a roadside memorial and vigils there for several days.

Also in the past I had to deal with a vehicle parked half way on the road and half way in my yard.

Easements are tricky things.

The roadway to the front yard here consists of the gutter. That's all. About 8-12 inches wide and I think it is actually considered the street. No sidewalks here. So no easement here. I have absolute right to keep anybody off of any part of my front yard here unless it is the water service checking the water or sewer lines.

 

[Minette]

I thought the easements were in relationship to the city or county's rights to access the property, not for civilians to stand in your yard.

 

[Evan's Mom]

I was responding to a post in which someone asked about whether or not Deborah and/or Jeremy were "religious".

As to whether or not a Catholic education is preferable, I don't agree. DH and I sent our daughter to a highly-regarded parochial school and were ready to get her out of there after first grade. We gave it another year and wished that we'd followed our initial instincts. Just because the school is in a high-income community didn't make up for large classes, inferior teachers, antiquated textbooks and other instructional materials, not to mention the constant requests for money above and beyond tuition and book fees. jmo

I guess it really depends on where you live.
The metro Atlanta schools(cough APS Cheating Scandal cough) have taken a beating in the last several years, especially those on the south side of Atlanta.
The county I grew up in actually lost it's accreditation. The students in that county were then allowed to transfer to schools in surrounding counties, including the one where I live now. Within two years our schools became overpopulated and our students aren't getting the education they once had the chance to get.
However, we have three fantastic christian schools in the county. I thoroughly researched them(my 16 year old stepsister also went to CCS when she was 14/15 and now attends college) and had hoped I'd be able to put my youngest in ELCA or CCS. Not going to happen anytime soon. It would cost me almost $1000 a month just to send Evan to ELCA. I believe the other two schools are a tiny bit cheaper, but not cheap enough for a middle class single mom.

My point is, depending where you live, a private christian school really is the preferable option sometimes. And I don't feel one has to be a christian to recognize the benefits that a christian school can offer.

***I'm not saying DB is or isn't religious, I don't know either way. Whether she is or not has no bearing on my opinion as to why she cancelled the vigils in her front yard.

 

[natsound]

Well, if Jeremy and Debbie are not guilty, then they are victims. What else can we be doing for them? <modsnip>

Whether anyone likes it or not, they ARE innocent at this point. They have not been charged with anything, and certainly not convicted. They are innocent, therefore they are victims.

Not until and unless they are convicted are they guilty. <modsnip>

Absolutely not.

Focusing on the post, not the poster, I almost spewed my coffee out when I read that!

If LE were to treat them like the "victims" some think they are, we'd never get anywhere in this case.

In that line of thinking (not convicted, therefore victims), was OJ Simpson a victim after the trial of the century?

 

[indepmo]

The roadway to the front yard here consists of the gutter. That's all. About 8-12 inches wide and I think it is actually considered the street. No sidewalks here. So no easement here. I have absolute right to keep anybody off of any part of my front yard here unless it is the water service checking the water or sewer lines.

Since this was questioned I did my homework and called the City of Kansas City. It's also important to distinguish the difference between a public easement and a utility easement. The public easement being next to the street, and utility easement behind and beside the residence where electrical and telecommunication cables exist.

I was directed to Charter & Code 50-155 ; 50-85 and 64

No permit required to conduct a prayer vigil in front of any residence in Kansas City. You are allowed to stand on public easement 4' from curb if a sidewalk exists, and it extends further than 4' if no sidewalk exists.

You are not allowed to obstruct people walking down the road.
You cannot obstruct a driveway.
There is no time period that requires you to leave, but other ordinances may fall into play such as disturbing the peace after 11 or midnight. You cannot sleep there, but you can gather there as long as you wish.

It is also advised that you inform police department so they are alerted in the event of a large crowd gathering.

I was instructed to call the "Right Away" division for KC Streets & Traffic to find out what the exact distance extending further than 4' would be.

 

[In da Middle]

Since this was questioned I did my homework and called the City of Kansas City. It's also important to distinguish the difference between a public easement and a utility easement. The public easement being next to the street, and utility easement behind and beside the residence where electrical and telecommunication cables exist.

I was directed to Charter & Code 50-155 ; 50-85 and 64

No permit required to conduct a prayer vigil in front of any residence in Kansas City. You are allowed to stand on public easement 4' from curb if a sidewalk exists, and it extends further than 4' if no sidewalk exists.

You are not allowed to obstruct people walking down the road.
You cannot obstruct a driveway.
There is no time period that requires you to leave, but other ordinances may fall into play such as disturbing the peace after 11 or midnight. You cannot sleep there, but you can gather there as long as you wish.

It is also advised that you inform police department so they are alerted in the event of a large crowd gathering.

I was instructed to call the "Right Away" division for KC Streets & Traffic to find out what the exact distance extending further than 4' would be.

Absolutely not what the residents on the corner were told by KCPD when the media was intruding on property. They did their homework too. They were told since we have no sidewalk easement, they have absolute right to keep people off of their property. No permit needed for a vigil necessarily, but a permit is required to block the flow of traffic if you decide to hold it in the street. So, according to Shoal Creek Patrol of KCPD they have the right to request trespassing charges for unwanted persons on their entire front yard. Hence all of the no trespassing signs that went up when the media was hanging out. That meant it was posted and could be prosecuted.